Thread: [MW] Chi Wave

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #21
    I can see Chi Burst being a better option in 25, but in 10 man, there is very rare occasions where people are stacked up and where I wouldn't have enough renewing mists up and uplift wouldn't be the best option..

    But I could see somebody glyphing uplift, so they would have uplift and chi burst on different resources, that might just work.

    Personally, the only 25 I do is LFR, and I find Spinning Crane Kick + Rushing Jade Wind as the best option for aoe healing, but.. well, that is LFR.
    Karuzo, mistweaver monk | Macphisto, discipline priest
    Formerly in Razzia Arthas-US (US #6), no new home yet, surprise guild disbands just before xpac are fun!

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Jake5467 View Post
    I use it on CD in 10 man H, the tank healing it does is crazy. I know uplift the majority of the time is a better choice but the fact is we suck at tank healing and chi wave really is king on this, also the dmg is quite amazing by the end of the fight. I know I'll get hate but it's my favourite healing ability and I couldn't imagine healing without it
    You are spamming chi wave because you are getting raped for not keeping shuffle up. 20% parry + 20% stagger > medicore heals.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by rmlunsford View Post
    Ok so ultimately I posted this after going over some logs for our mistweaver. We are a 25m and I just couldn't figure out why numbers were so low. After comparing our mistweaver to others, I noticed that no top numbers in 25s had chi wave. Either uplift or chi burst was the top heal. I also noticed that thunder focus tea is never used in our monks logs. I have linked some here, please help. We are currently working on Garalon and having the monk do 100k heals instead of 50k would be pretty sweet.

    reports/sn95r3sm9ifwolu2/sum/healingDone/?s=9080&e=9600
    Is there any chance I could get one of ya'll stellar mistweavers to take a look at these logs? I really need some help in making this mistweaver not heal 50k. I'm looking at other 25 mans and being under 100k looks like you are doing it wrong, let alone being at 50k. Our mistweaver sat at 50k for majority of that fight. I don't have garalon specific log uploaded yet, but there are problems with her healing in every fight.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s...?s=9080&e=9600
    Last edited by rmlunsford; 2012-11-15 at 09:31 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    well as i said, being a dedicated tank healer is a terrible idea,

    and i am only half heartedly defending ZS anyway, at the moment i use Chi Wave for 5-man and 10-man content.
    "I like this spell because it's good for tank healing" and "I am a dedicated tank healer" are two very different things.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by rmlunsford View Post
    Is there any chance I could get one of ya'll stellar mistweavers to take a look at these logs? I really need some help in making this mistweaver not heal 50k. I'm looking at other 25 mans and being under 100k looks like you are doing it wrong, let alone being at 50k. Our mistweaver sat at 50k for majority of that fight. I don't have garalon specific log uploaded yet, but there are problems with her healing in every fight.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s...?s=9080&e=9600
    So many problems...

    1) Not a single Thunder Brew Tea usage. It should be used just about every single time it's up and she literally never used it for the whole raid, what's up with that?

    2) Chi Wave in a 25 man raid... You might be able to brainwash yourself into thinking that it's at least decent for 10 man tank healing, but the thought shouldn't even occur in a 25 man, that's just awful.

    3) Chi Torpedo. Xuen is a LOT better healing on any fight with a damage boost (like Elegon), but more importantly she's not even using Chi Torpedo on most fights. At that point she really should just spec into Xuen so she can press it every 3 minutes and not have to worry about wasting an entire talent tier.

    4) She seems to NEVER Jab for Chi while healing. While not ideal, there are definitely moments and fights where it is very useful and simply not using it ever is just being bad.

    5) She used Chi Brew 8 times across 6 bosses of healing. It has a 1.5 minute cooldown, it should be used at LEAST two or three times per fight.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    2) Chi Wave in a 25 man raid... You might be able to brainwash yourself into thinking that it's at least decent for 10 man tank healing, but the thought shouldn't even occur in a 25 man, that's just awful.
    The only important parameter is the amount of time when the tank's percentage health is the lowest in the raid. That's nearly always the case when there isn't major raidwide damage mechanics. And if it isn't raidwide, and it's just other random non-tank people taking severe damage, then there's nothing wrong with Chi Wave bouncing to them.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    The only important parameter is the amount of time when the tank's percentage health is the lowest in the raid. That's nearly always the case when there isn't major raidwide damage mechanics. And if it isn't raidwide, and it's just other random non-tank people taking severe damage, then there's nothing wrong with Chi Wave bouncing to them.
    Except that Chi Burst is a much more useful ability and if you're having a Monk switching talents for tank healing, your Priests/Paladins/Shamans are doing something horribly wrong.

  8. #28
    Chi Burst is useful, yes, but it's largely duplicative with Uplift. Things that you want to be doing with Chi Burst you can also do with Uplift.

    Chi Wave gives me a new tool. Chi Burst gives me slightly different version of a tool I already have.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    4) She seems to NEVER Jab for Chi while healing. While not ideal, there are definitely moments and fights where it is very useful and simply not using it ever is just being bad.
    What moments and fights is it very useful in? Just need a few examples thanks so much for the feedback!

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 10:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    Chi Burst is useful, yes, but it's largely duplicative with Uplift. Things that you want to be doing with Chi Burst you can also do with Uplift.

    Chi Wave gives me a new tool. Chi Burst gives me slightly different version of a tool I already have.
    Grain of salt as I don't play a mistweaver but my research is showing that Chi Burst is vastly superior to Uplift when stacked.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    So many problems...

    2) Chi Wave in a 25 man raid... You might be able to brainwash yourself into thinking that it's at least decent for 10 man tank healing, but the thought shouldn't even occur in a 25 man, that's just awful.

    3) Chi Torpedo. Xuen is a LOT better healing on any fight with a damage boost (like Elegon), but more importantly she's not even using Chi Torpedo on most fights. At that point she really should just spec into Xuen so she can press it every 3 minutes and not have to worry about wasting an entire talent tier.
    I laugh when people use chi wave over chi burst in 25mans. Chi burst always comes out to be 2nd or 3rd in my healing and I'm always top healer in 25mans. Having that said, I think Chi Torpedo is way better than Xuen in 25mans as well. Xuen seems more suited for 10mans because Chi torpedo can heal EVERYONE instantly (talenting in celerity is a must for extra torpedo and cd reduction) and has much better control than xuen. And don't forget you can toggle walk/run on roll and chi torpedo to control how far you move

    Chi Burst is useful, yes, but it's largely duplicative with Uplift. Things that you want to be doing with Chi Burst you can also do with Uplift.

    Chi Wave gives me a new tool. Chi Burst gives me slightly different version of a tool I already have.
    I disagree, Just because Uplift and Chi Burst both cost the same and are aoe healing spells doesn't make it the same. Plus you want to be comparing chi burst and chi wave not with uplift since that is always available to you. now the question is whether you're in heroics, 10m, or 25m which matters

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    Plus you want to be comparing chi burst and chi wave not with uplift since that is always available to you.
    No, you want to be asking yourself "what's the best way for me to spend 2 chi right now." Even if you do take chi burst, you still have to decide whether you want to use it or use uplift.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    No, you want to be asking yourself "what's the best way for me to spend 2 chi right now." Even if you do take chi burst, you still have to decide whether you want to use it or use uplift.
    Well in your case then whether you want to use chi burst or uplift depends on the situation.

    Better time to use Chi Burst: When you're Renewing Mist isn't on every injured party member. Or when your raid is stacked or in a lined position. Or when you also want to do aoe damage while still healing all (compared to chi wave).

    Better time to use Uplift: Raid split open up. with/After using Thunder focus Tea when most of your raid has ReM.

    That being said Chi Burst will be better than Chi Wave in 25m and vice versa 10m/heroics. If you don't care about being top in the healing board then just play with the one you have the most fun with.
    Last edited by bigfootbigd; 2012-11-15 at 10:56 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    If you don't care about being top in the healing board then just play with the one you have the most fun with.
    Being at the top of the healing board is irrelevant. What matters is providing the right heals at the right times.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by rmlunsford View Post
    What moments and fights is it very useful in? Just need a few examples thanks so much for the feedback!
    Jab for Chi is typically used whenever you want Chi in a short period of time. This includes (but is not limited to) Chi Burst spam, Uplift spam, and setting up a TBT/Uplift. It's not surprising that she doesn't use it considering she doesn't use Chi Burst or TBT, but as Mistweavers are classified as melee by mechanics and can stand in melee for every fight, it is always available and generally always a good idea at some point during a fight. For an extreme example, I healed Garalon this week using absolutely nothing except Jab, Renewing Mists, Thunder Brew Tea, and Uplift. Due to the constant damage to a spread out and constantly moving raid, I can sit on the boss using Jab/Jab/Uplift for literally the entire fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    Having that said, I think Chi Torpedo is way better than Xuen in 25mans as well.
    The problem here is that Chi Torpedo does the exact same thing Chi Burst does, only it doesn't cost Chi, but heals for less than half as much. Normally Chi Torpedo's lack of taking a GCD would be useful here, but unfortunately you can't use it after a Chi Burst because of the cast time, so you would have to use it after something else. Typically if you are pumping out heals on a stacked up raid, SCK/Chi Burst is the best way to go, and you can't use Chi Torpedo during either of those. You could Jab and then Chi Torpedo, but at that point you're ending up at the same healing for only slightly less mana. Xuen provides the much needed part of our kit that is a long-duration healing boost, and he almost never overheals. I would argue that Chi Torpedo is actually less useful than Xuen when talking about 25 mans because it is likely to overheal a lot more and it is difficult to fit it into a power-AoE heal rotation. Keep in mind that Xuen typically heals for 700k+ every time he's out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    No, you want to be asking yourself "what's the best way for me to spend 2 chi right now." Even if you do take chi burst, you still have to decide whether you want to use it or use uplift.
    And Chi Burst is better unless Uplift is on 10 or more targets, which doesn't happen outside the influence of TBT. It's a mathematical fact, and if you want to argue that hitting 6 or more people with Chi Burst isn't always possible... you need to position yourself better.

  15. #35
    And what are you doing while you're positioning yourself better? Not healing.

    Look, I get that Chi Burst has good numbers. But I find it incredibly awkward to use, and the attention I have to pay to making sure it goes where I want to detracts from other things I need to be paying attention to. I don't like it, but that's a personal thing.

    What I object to is the "chi wave is useless, never use it, you're automatically bad if you do" stance from people who themselves haven't attempted to determine when it's useful.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 06:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    For an extreme example, I healed Garalon this week using absolutely nothing except Jab, Renewing Mists, Thunder Brew Tea, and Uplift. Due to the constant damage to a spread out and constantly moving raid, I can sit on the boss using Jab/Jab/Uplift for literally the entire fight.
    Beyond just being able to sit on the boss, fights like Garalon are where it's not even close that you should be using full Serpent's Zeal fistweaving. Double damage from weak points = double healing. Use it.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    What I object to is the "chi wave is useless, never use it, you're automatically bad if you do" stance from people who themselves haven't attempted to determine when it's useful.
    You are better off doing what the class is best at, raid healing. Leave the spot and tank healing to the paladin and shaman.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    Beyond just being able to sit on the boss, fights like Garalon are where it's not even close that you should be using full Serpent's Zeal fistweaving. Double damage from weak points = double healing. Use it.
    Oh yes, I'm sure rolling around and fistweaving for a total of 50k hps is totally better than spamming Uplift for 100k hps. I know damage bonuses usually point to fistweaving, but the constant raid-wide damage is what Mistweavers absolutely excel at. You're also not healing while you're positioning yourself to fistweave on the legs.

    And yes, Chi Wave is useless in raids. Until there's a Chimeron style boss that requires crazy tank healing and nothing else, it will be worthless. It definitely has its uses, I use it in Challenge Modes and PvP, but in a raid environment there is no reason to take it.
    Last edited by Totaltotemic; 2012-11-16 at 12:36 AM.

  18. #38
    Look, I get that Chi Burst has good numbers. But I find it incredibly awkward to use, and the attention I have to pay to making sure it goes where I want to detracts from other things I need to be paying attention to. I don't like it, but that's a personal thing.
    Could have saved a lot of time if you just said this, hence me saying just play with the one you find enjoyable if you don't care about getting the most healing possible

  19. #39
    The Patient Jake5467's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by johncockhand69 View Post
    You are spamming chi wave because you are getting raped for not keeping shuffle up. 20% parry + 20% stagger > medicore heals.
    I'm a mistweaver, who happens to fistweave every opportunity I get, hence why I love chi wave.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Oh yes, I'm sure rolling around and fistweaving for a total of 50k hps is totally better than spamming Uplift for 100k hps. I know damage bonuses usually point to fistweaving, but the constant raid-wide damage is what Mistweavers absolutely excel at. You're also not healing while you're positioning yourself to fistweave on the legs.
    Don't know about you, but my rolls heal. For a lot, actually. Also, since when do you stop being able to use Uplift while fistweaving?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •