Is it true...you don't need to be hit capped.

[Phiish]

Hit provides more consistency. Missing an ability that has a cooldown (Flame Shock) can cause a real issue in damage. Even more so in burst situations like Elegon's sparks. The secondary stat could provide more DPS in the long run, which is what simulations test for. In real world application, you will FEEL and hurt, each time you miss a powerful ability- or waste resources- or missing an interrupt- a portion of your soul will cry and ask why you took and 23 dps upgrade in secondary stats instead of capping out your hit.

[Deleted]

The Problem with wowreforge is, that the site still dont get that expertise=spellhit for casters.

[Dch48]

The advantage Mr. Robot has is that it not only calculates reforging but also the optimal gems and enchants. I have found the reforgelite addon to be unreliable since it gives a different set of reforges every time you reset the calculations and does not take other changes into account. What I do now is use Mr.Robot, set things up how it says, then go to femaledwarf.com and play around to see if I can squeeze a little more potential dps out by changing things a little. Usually I can. I currently have a 0.04% chance to be dodged since it is Expertise that is slightly below the cap and Hit is a few points above. I have not seen anything being dodged in my recount data.

[kakihara]

Hitcap is important because it sucks to miss. the benefit of not being hitcapped on ur theoretical dps is so small that you wont feel it anyway. but u will feel if a bloodthrist msises,which can trigger an enrage which then triggers raging blow, which does a ton of damage. and it sucks when u have to kill something fast and you miss in that moment. sure an affliclock just loses a gcd , but hes gotta notice that he missed too, which he might not do in time to use the next gcd to recast the dot.

[Salted Beef]

or missing an interrupt-

Interrupts don't miss, and haven't been able to for some years now.

[Zka]

Interrupts don't miss, and haven't been able to for some years now.

I think tank monk interrupt can miss, at least I have seen some whine about that But generally, yes, interrupts cannot miss since eary Cata. The change was called for because of 10m heroic raiding when you just cannot afford to rely on luck (you have very few interruptors).

[Tzalix]

The reason Hit is such a weak stat for Affliction Warlocks at the moment is because the majority of their damage comes from DoTs and channeled spells. Once a DoT or channeled spell has hit, it will run the rest of it's duration with all damage hitting the target, regardless of your Hit chance.

However...

Being able to play optimally without Hit cap takes some really good reaction time. If a DoT misses, you gotta be able to immediately cast it again, preferably while still being GCD capped. Which is very difficult.

So, for the majority of players, not being Hit capped will be a DPS loss, simply because the majority of players cannot react that fast. And even if you do play optimally without Hit cap, the DPS gain will be minor. So I do recommend that people go for Hit cap, even if it isn't "optimal".

[Phiish]

Interrupts don't miss, and haven't been able to for some years now.

You learn something every day. Although, that example was aimed more at PvP oriented players. Thanks for the knowledge drop and clarification though!

[schwarzkopf]

My mage only needs 14% hit to cap... so it isn't that hard to get there. Matter of fact, I've started thinking of reforging hit to other things lately.

[underdogba]

My mage only needs 14% hit to cap... so it isn't that hard to get there. Matter of fact, I've started thinking of reforging hit to other things lately.

This discussion is really not about whether or not being hitcapped is hard stats wise, it's about whether sitting at say 14.96% for example plus a little extra secondary stats can be better than being slightly above cap and not having those stats.

Your 14% to cap I assume is due to 1% expertise from a weapon racial?

[Asmalya]

Increasing calculation time will always increase accuracy with NP-Complete problems such as gearing in World of Warcraft. No system on this planet (at this time) could calculate perfectly accurate results for a WoW character's gear, gems, enchants, and reforges in 3 seconds, and AMR is no exception to this.

I'm telling you I can enter my Ret set into AMR, then reforge like it says and get a number (such as 140580 or something), then go to WoWReforge, run their reforging, then reimport my WoW character into AMR and my score will have increased (to something like 140650). You could too.

Your point about stats devaluing is considered by all reforging tools everywhere and is irrelevant to my point. WoWReforge often places me a few points of hit below cap. Getting that last 1 or 2 hit in a tradeoff for like 8 of another stat is not worth it, but when you're short 20 Hit, trading 18 Mastery for 18 Hit is always worth it (well, for classes where Hit > Mastery). The problem is that AMR doesn't have the required level of accuracy to see that because it cuts off calculations at a certain accuracy threshold.

Yes ofc. If you cap the time at a certain point then ofc if you want to calculate more you have to sacrifice accuracy.
But!
Its not like those sites cap at 3 seconds. Hell depending on how easy it is to reforge gear wowreforge takes between 2 and 5 seconds for me. I had other sides calculating 10 seconds. So you can easily calculate more stuff precisely. It just takes more time (which in fact is more a matter of having efficient formulas and code).

My last point was more that the problem is simply that wowreforge has default values for getting exactly to the cap or above is not possible while amr chose to default "Get to caps or slightly below if its more dps". (on that fact wowreforge never put me below caps when i wanted a certain number..always above.)

[Orange Joe]

I dont think your example with those numbers is true although I havent done the math. If all spells just do flat damage that might be true but a 50% miss chance on a relatively long CDs with extremely potent damage boosts like Haunt (plus the wasted shard) or half my DS ticks would be an absolute nogo for me, especially at the times when it is most important, when safe burst is needed or during execute phases.

Or I am waiting until the last moment to refresh my dots waiting for procs. And then the stars align and everything is procced and I refresh for a nice damage bonus at the last second before one of the buffs falls off! Oh wait, no. I missed :-)

If you are an affliction lock why are you waiting to refresh dots?

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=131973

Not to mention you are a class that doesn't need to be near cap. I'm running and about 11% atm myself.

[Firebert]

The thing about Ask Mr. Robot, you see, is that you shouldn't listen to Mr. Robot.

Why? Everyone seems to hate it and I don't seem to have a problem with it.

Also, I'm not AMR staff.

[LocNess]

I tend to be over hit (15.15% at the moment), however if I am at 14.82% I am fine with it. I am ok gambling that .2% chance to miss over not fretting about how to re forge and regem my entire gear.

[dayleft]

not generally no, but in some cases yes - i do

[Wildtree]

Completely class dependent.....
Feral Kitty for example gets the energy refunded on a miss. Going for mastery instead of Hit results in more throughput on DPS.

[Simca]

Nonsense, being slightly under hit sometimes sims better.

And Askmrrobot has an option so it WILL make you hit-capped despite it's not being optimal, it has nothing to do with accuracy.

Read my posts throughout the thread. AMR's accuracy wanes on 'trivial' calculations (i.e. being exactly at hit cap via 100000s of reforging calculations is probably a 40 dps gain over being 0.2% below cap). Yes, sometimes it is worth being slightly under or slightly over cap. However, that slightly is not "0.2%", it's closer to "0.05%" typically.

I can prove it if you'd like since it is quite easy to prove either via WoWReforge, an in-game reforging addon, or a very old python-based desktop app (my personal favorite, despite the fact that it doesn't know what spirit is).

[Firebert]

I can prove it if you'd like, it's quite easy to prove.

Forgive my indulgence, but can I have the proof anyway?

[darthshatner]

There's a lot of misinformation in this thread.

A proper reforging tool utilizes one and only one method—it calculates every possible combination of reforges, multiplies the resulting stat totals by the given weights, and picks whichever combination yields the highest total value. The reason that sites like AMR often suggest reforging slightly under the hit cap is because that particular combination yielded the highest result. That's it. And for the all the love that WoWReforge seems to be getting, WoWReforge does not utilize this method.

Now, whether or not the stat weights that you're inputting accurately reflect the change in DPS that you'll see from increasing or decreasing those stats is another matter entirely. Tools like SimCraft or ShadowCraft can probably give you a better set of weights to use than whatever AMR is suggesting by default. But rest assured, AMR will tell you how to optimally reforge your gear for any given weights.

[darthshatner]

askmrrobot and wowreforge do EXACTLY the same given the same settings.

askmrrobot's default settings is to sim for the highest number no matter what, it would be the same as if you set your caps in wowreforge to "close to" instead of "at least".

Again you can tell askmrrobot to act like wowreforge does as default by clicking "Force Hit/Exp Caps" in options.

You are mistaken. Using the exact same stat weights that I use in AMR and the "close to" setting for hit and expertise caps, WoWReforge will "optimize" me at 2552 expertise and 2566 hit—over the cap for both, and not the optimal reforge in any case.