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  1. #1

    Frost dk vs unholy dk

    Hello my fellow readers,

    For this expansion i had decided to go with a dk as my main. I've done a fair bit of research but i can't figure it out.
    Hopefully you guys can help/advice me.

    Some people tell me frost 2h is the best dps spec, others say frost dw even heard some people say unholy.

    Which is the "best" pve dps spec nowadays?

    Cheers in advance!

  2. #2
    Masterfrost (Dual Wield Frost w/ mastery stacking) is currently the highest. However, they are all close enough that you can play whichever one you want. I like unholy the most personally. 2h Frost have by far the best burst though.

  3. #3
    DW Frost is without a doubt ahead using the "Masterfrost" rotation. That said while using the Masterfrost rotation mastery isn't always the best stat for DW Frost, make sure to sim your own gear if you can. When in doubt stacking Mastery will be fine though and at higher gear levels it is definitely the way to go.

  4. #4
    Theyre all within about 500-1000 dps of one another. Choose whichever you like.

    Unholy:
    Strengths: strong dots, strong pet, strong execute.
    Weaknesses: Poor target switching, slow ramp up.

    2h Frost (hastefrost):
    Strengths: Best burst, easy target switching, no ramp up.
    Weaknesses: Wasting Killing Machine procs on Frost Strike (it happens a lot), requires a swing timer to more effectively use Killing Machine.

    DW Frost (masterfrost):
    Strengths: VERY easy target switching, good burst, no ramp up.
    Weaknesses: If Im not mistaken, its a primarily single rune spamming rotation (Howling Blast). If you dislike that style, you wont like masterfrost.

  5. #5
    Frost is currently the easiest to play and slightly ahead according to simulations. Though if you're struggling with doing actual damage this thread isn't going to help. Proper spec and minmaxing can only help you so much. You just need to know what to press in what order If you want a easy spec with alot of forgiveness if you fuck up go DW frost.

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pieterman View Post
    Frost is currently the easiest to play and slightly ahead according to simulations. Though if you're struggling with doing actual damage this thread isn't going to help. Proper spec and minmaxing can only help you so much. You just need to know what to press in what order If you want a easy spec with alot of forgiveness if you fuck up go DW frost.
    Masterfrost is anything but forgiving.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Varyk View Post
    Masterfrost is anything but forgiving.
    Explain please. From what I've seen the only thing you can do wrong as frost is clip rime or KM a frost strike, and neither of these will screw over your dps completely.

    Edit: This is 2h frost I'm talking about btw. It's probably wrong to KM obliterate if you're DWing.
    Last edited by Pieterman; 2012-11-12 at 12:10 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Pieterman View Post
    Explain please. From what I've seen the only thing you can do wrong as frost is clip rime or KM a frost strike, and neither of these will screw over your dps completely.

    Edit: This is 2h frost I'm talking about btw. It's probably wrong to KM obliterate if you're DWing.
    He said masterfrost you derp.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Shahad View Post
    He said masterfrost you good sir.
    And I said explain please.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Pieterman View Post
    And I said explain please.
    Masterfrost plays with reducing Obliterate usage as much as possible.
    It uses Frost and Death Runes on Howling Blast, Unholy Runes on Plague Strike when Blood Plague needs to be refreshed, and Obliterate when there's both Unholy Runes and Blood Plague doesn't need to be refreshed. Also, there is always only one Unholy Rune on cooldown when using Runic Empowerment.
    Runic Power and Killing Machine procs are used on Frost Strike.

    It's unforgiving because you need to closely watch your resources so as to not be starved and to not have too many for the GCDs available. You fuck up, you end up with less resources at one time, too many at another, and your DPS suffers because of it.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pieterman View Post
    Explain please. From what I've seen the only thing you can do wrong as frost is clip rime or KM a frost strike, and neither of these will screw over your dps completely.

    Edit: This is 2h frost I'm talking about btw. It's probably wrong to KM obliterate if you're DWing.
    You have several resources to manage. Mismanaging any of them results in pretty significant dps loss. Misusing any of your runes (using Obliterate when you should use Howling Blast, vica versa, not Plague Leeching at the right time) results in lower runic power generation in addition to fewer procs. Misusing your runic power (generating too much is the most common) results in less Frost Strikes (even generating too much runic power can mean less due to being gcd capped and "wasting" time). They all feed off of each other.

    Saying a spec is easy to play doesn't mean anything when it's being played it at an average skill level. Doing anything well is going to be difficult.
    Last edited by Varyk; 2012-11-12 at 03:35 PM.

  12. #12
    Frost does take more micromanaging than its given credit for by far. Too many think "dk is face roll" which can result in mediocre numbers but who's content with that?

    Unholy takes a little bit more than even that, because to properly manage your ghoul and cool downs you have to watch an plan more ahead than frost. Unholy is easier on diseases with the use of festering in the rotation though.
    Error 404: Signature not found.

  13. #13
    So is DW haste a noob spec now? I want to DW but not do the "master frost" thing.
    Last edited by plantation; 2012-11-12 at 04:05 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by plantation View Post
    So is DW haste a noob spec now?
    Yes. It is. Stop playing it.

  15. #15
    So I just hit a target dummy for 2min as DW frost, and then again as 2H frost. I used the same reforge priority that I did in 4.3; haste>mastery>crit.

    My 2H weapon is an ilevel 463 from a heroic dungeon, and the DW weapons are both 476 from LFR. DW dps evened out at around 37k, and 2H was 36k. I'm going to assume that with even ilevel weapons 2H would've been slightly higher than DW, and DW "master frost" style would've been slightly higher than 2H with a 476 weapon. So basically a 1-3k difference from DW hastefrost and DW masterfrost. A minimal difference.
    Last edited by plantation; 2012-11-12 at 06:29 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Shahad View Post
    Masterfrost plays with reducing Obliterate usage as much as possible.
    It uses Frost and Death Runes on Howling Blast, Unholy Runes on Plague Strike when Blood Plague needs to be refreshed, and Obliterate when there's both Unholy Runes and Blood Plague doesn't need to be refreshed. Also, there is always only one Unholy Rune on cooldown when using Runic Empowerment.
    Runic Power and Killing Machine procs are used on Frost Strike.

    It's unforgiving because you need to closely watch your resources so as to not be starved and to not have too many for the GCDs available. You fuck up, you end up with less resources at one time, too many at another, and your DPS suffers because of it.
    So spam howling blast unless unholy runes have to go on cooldown, and don't cap runic power. Sounds faceroll to me. The only hard part about frost is watching your swingtimer while doing your rotation. Other than that it's probably one of the easiest specs there is. I've played a load of different classes and specs, and DW frost is the easiest. It's enjoyable, and strong, but easy.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pieterman View Post
    So spam howling blast unless unholy runes have to go on cooldown, and don't cap runic power. Sounds faceroll to me. The only hard part about frost is watching your swingtimer while doing your rotation. Other than that it's probably one of the easiest specs there is. I've played a load of different classes and specs, and DW frost is the easiest. It's enjoyable, and strong, but easy.
    I wouldn't call it faceroll, but there are certainly some harder classes out there for sure. But faceroll is hardly a way to describe it. If someone plays by "spamming HB, OB when unholy needs to go on cooldown and not capping RP" versus someone who is very, very focused and studied up on maximizing his performance, you will see a difference.
    Error 404: Signature not found.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shahad View Post
    Masterfrost plays with reducing Obliterate usage as much as possible.
    It uses Frost and Death Runes on Howling Blast, Unholy Runes on Plague Strike when Blood Plague needs to be refreshed, and Obliterate when there's both Unholy Runes and Blood Plague doesn't need to be refreshed. Also, there is always only one Unholy Rune on cooldown when using Runic Empowerment.
    Runic Power and Killing Machine procs are used on Frost Strike.

    It's unforgiving because you need to closely watch your resources so as to not be starved and to not have too many for the GCDs available. You fuck up, you end up with less resources at one time, too many at another, and your DPS suffers because of it.
    DW uses Blood Tap now not RE (unless you WANT to use RE in which case it's still a decent option) which gets rid of the rune gaming. At current mastery levels you lose basically no damage if you accidentally Oblit on a KM as DW. The last sentence is just plain not true with Blood Tap and even with RE is only true if you do something stupid like FS spam through all your RP at once.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyrial View Post
    DW uses Blood Tap now not RE (unless you WANT to use RE in which case it's still a decent option) which gets rid of the rune gaming. At current mastery levels you lose basically no damage if you accidentally Oblit on a KM as DW. The last sentence is just plain not true with Blood Tap and even with RE is only true if you do something stupid like FS spam through all your RP at once.
    Huh, pretty sure RE offers almost the same (or better) Single Target damage and superior AoE when gamed than BT.
    And, yes, fucking up the balancing of resources will yield less damage. It did in Cata, still does now.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Pieterman View Post
    So spam howling blast unless unholy runes have to go on cooldown, and don't cap runic power. Sounds faceroll to me. The only hard part about frost is watching your swingtimer while doing your rotation. Other than that it's probably one of the easiest specs there is. I've played a load of different classes and specs, and DW frost is the easiest. It's enjoyable, and strong, but easy.
    Sir,
    go play PvE destruction warlock or 2h frost pushing everything what blinks.
    About masterfrost-you are totally derp. QQ plz.

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