1. #1

    What do we play against Garalon after the bugfix?

    Question is: what do we play as a spec against garalon after the sweeping strikes bugfix/ nerf?

    Is arms still the way to go or is fury the better spec now?!?

    I already played fury against garalon and felt pretty comfortable with the dmg i was doing with BT-WW-RB.

    Any opiniions on that subject?

  2. #2
    Field Marshal
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    Im staying as fury and still manage to be ontop of the dps (25man) But thats just the fact i dont enjoy raiding as Arms.

    Arms can still be viable when you use sweeping strikes in a weak spot attacking the boss and cleaving the leg. Just another way of doing it.

  3. #3
    Today about 11% of my damadge came from sweeping strikes I think, whereas before it was more like 18-20% I believe. Lower sure, but it's still quite nice. I imagine arms is still better if you have equal weapons. But if your weapons for fury are clearly better you might be better off sticking with fury.

  4. #4
    Nothing wrong with Fury's cleave dmg tbh.

    Play the one you prefer, it's close enough.

  5. #5
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    Yeah exactly i think no1 can really say fury cleave is bad. On 25man i was rocking it with WW - RB.

    I did try Arms but i coulnd get it to work. Gotten to used to Fury that i cant rly change back. And i enjoy fury more.

  6. #6
    Well arms gameplay is not really hard but i find it rather boring.
    Since i only have lfr starshatter but double the 1h from elegon for smf ill be sticking to WW-RB

    @divinedoom: what kinda dmg did u pull against garalon prenerf and afterwards? I mean raw dmg and dps numbers

  7. #7
    Why would you cleave as fury on Garalon? You're probably tossing away more damage with the weak whirlwinds consuming huge rage seeing as the leg takes double damage.

    I don't cleave on Garalon, I have far from competitive gear with the top ranked people and I'm still rank 4 on that fight. I really think it's a huge misunderstanding.

  8. #8
    Don't u think hitting four times with one RB + WW is better then one RB and one wild strike?
    Especially with the Raging Wind Glyph
    Last edited by Noron; 2012-11-16 at 11:43 AM.

  9. #9
    Quick napkin maths!

    I have a LFR Starshatter in my MH, average damage is 13,250.

    HS - 13,250 x 1.1 + 549 = 15,124 x double leg damage = 30,248

    Cleave - 13,250 x 0.82 x 3(double damage to leg and single damage to boss) = 32,595

    So slight advantage to Cleave.



    Now for the WW debate.

    My OH is also a LFR Starshatter so same 13,250 for average damage.

    RB - (13,250 x 2.15) + (13,250 x 2.15) = 56,975

    WS - 13,250 x 2.2 + 1,029 = 30,174

    WW - (13,250 x 0.85) + (13,250 x 0.85) = 22,525 x 1.1 for Raging Wind glyph = 24,778

    So...

    RB + WS = 87,149 x double leg damage = 174,298

    RB + WW = 81,753 x 3(double leg damage and single damage on boss) = 245,259

    Seems WW is very useable!

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Nakkí's Avatar
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    Arms still rocks. Thing is, Fury is now a real alternative for the fight. Play the spec you can get the best performance out of.
    Nakkiz of Gifu (14/14HC)
    Livestream

  11. #11
    Well how much stronger is arms on that fight really? Problem in my raid is we need a little more dps, thats why i am looking into that matter! An after ur raid on sunday i was sure i was going to play arms next time but after that hotfix im not so sure anymore

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DOUBLEXBAUGH View Post
    Quick napkin maths!

    I have a LFR Starshatter in my MH, average damage is 13,250.

    HS - 13,250 x 1.1 + 549 = 15,124 x double leg damage = 30,248

    Cleave - 13,250 x 0.82 x 3(double damage to leg and single damage to boss) = 32,595

    So slight advantage to Cleave.



    Now for the WW debate.

    My OH is also a LFR Starshatter so same 13,250 for average damage.

    RB - (13,250 x 2.15) + (13,250 x 2.15) = 56,975

    WS - 13,250 x 2.2 + 1,029 = 30,174

    WW - (13,250 x 0.85) + (13,250 x 0.85) = 22,525 x 1.1 for Raging Wind glyph = 24,778

    So...

    RB + WS = 87,149 x double leg damage = 174,298

    RB + WW = 81,753 x 3(double leg damage and single damage on boss) = 245,259

    Seems WW is very useable!
    Correct me now if I'm wrong or missing something but isn't the main purpose of WW not how much damage it does but the fact that it basicly gives u an extra RB (only with normal damage on boss though) each time you use it. Doesn't change your conclusion on that WW us usable but but.

  13. #13
    Yes, thats why I multiplied the RB+WW by 3. They will both hit the leg for double damage and the boss for single damage, while RB+WS only hits the leg for double.

  14. #14
    but if u r trying to figure out rahter or not to cleave as a fury against garalon u need to compare how much dmg u do while using BT-WW-RB or BT-RB-RB/WS. So taking the WW dmg into calculation is quite important

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DOUBLEXBAUGH

    Now for the WW debate.

    My OH is also a LFR Starshatter so same 13,250 for average damage.

    RB - (13,250 x 2.15) + (13,250 x 2.15) = 56,975

    WS - 13,250 x 2.2 + 1,029 = 30,174

    WW - (13,250 x 0.85) + (13,250 x 0.85) = 22,525 x 1.1 for Raging Wind glyph = 24,778

    So...

    RB + WS = 87,149 x double leg damage = 174,298

    RB + WW = 81,753 x 3(double leg damage and single damage on boss) = 245,259

    Seems WW is very useable!
    Your WW costs 30 rage. A procced wild strike costs 10, an impending victory costs 10, dragon roar costs 0, battle shout grants rage, heroic throw is free, colossus smash is free... and so on.

    Your maths are far from complete as you are assuming you

    1) only use non-procced WS to replace whirlwinds if you don't cleave,
    2) Use an infinite BT-WW-RB rotation which means you ALWAYS proc RB and thus lose an RB every time berserker rage comes off CD.

    Effectively your meat cleaver rotation is going to cost you a ton of rage, rely on BT crits, waste RB procs and delay colossus smashes. I'm not convinced. You'll also have to delay (in almost ideal circumstances) your raging blow for a bloodthirst whenever you want to weave in a dragon roar, possibly (in fact over 50% chance) wasting an entire raging blow.

    On top of that you seem to be thinking that your offhand hits as hard as your main hand.
    Last edited by Saevus.Reptile; 2012-11-16 at 06:08 PM.

  16. #16
    Personally I'm TG so I think I'll just use WW instead of unprocced wild strikes and use the raging wind glyph. This means that for at least some RB:s, meat cleaver will be up and some "free" cleave damage will hit the leg without me really changing my single target dps very much. Thoughts?

    Bonus question: How to use your second recklessness on this fight? Worth switching to boss body when he is under 20%? And I have the problem that one of the legs tends to stand in the goo created by pheromones ;/

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxie View Post
    Personally I'm TG so I think I'll just use WW instead of unprocced wild strikes and use the raging wind glyph. This means that for at least some RB:s, meat cleaver will be up and some "free" cleave damage will hit the leg without me really changing my single target dps very much. Thoughts?

    Bonus question: How to use your second recklessness on this fight? Worth switching to boss body when he is under 20%? And I have the problem that one of the legs tends to stand in the goo created by pheromones ;/
    That makes a lot more sense. This could be the optimal solution.

    And no, I'd still use the recklessness on the legs. You'll most likely get 1 or 2 executes on the leg during reck if you time it well. I doubt you can keep up with damage on the boss like that.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Saevus.Reptile View Post
    Your WW costs 30 rage. A procced wild strike costs 10, an impending victory costs 10, dragon roar costs 0, battle shout grants rage, heroic throw is free, colossus smash is free... and so on.

    Your maths are far from complete as you are assuming you

    1) only use non-procced WS to replace whirlwinds if you don't cleave,
    2) Use an infinite BT-WW-RB rotation which means you ALWAYS proc RB and thus lose an RB every time berserker rage comes off CD.

    Effectively your meat cleaver rotation is going to cost you a ton of rage, rely on BT crits, waste RB procs and delay colossus smashes. I'm not convinced. You'll also have to delay (in almost ideal circumstances) your raging blow for a bloodthirst whenever you want to weave in a dragon roar, possibly (in fact over 50% chance) wasting an entire raging blow.

    On top of that you seem to be thinking that your offhand hits as hard as your main hand.
    I know that math is not 100%, but its close enough for what I was showing.

    Also why would you assume that I was saying you should ALWAYS BT-WW-RB repeat? Colossus Smash would still be priority if the leg has enough hp left to benefit from it, Dragon Roar would still have priority over it, etc. All I was showing is that WW+RB hits harder than WS+RB on the leg+boss. You still have to be smart about how you use it though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maxie View Post
    Personally I'm TG so I think I'll just use WW instead of unprocced wild strikes and use the raging wind glyph. This means that for at least some RB:s, meat cleaver will be up and some "free" cleave damage will hit the leg without me really changing my single target dps very much. Thoughts?/
    That is how I do it.
    Last edited by DOUBLEXBAUGH; 2012-11-16 at 06:53 PM.

  19. #19
    Mechagnome
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    The nerf was rather small for Arms on Garalon in the end. Before I rocket close to 160k dps and now I still managed to get just a bit over 140k.

    This was on 10 man with combat rogue who keeps stealing my extra excecutes to the leg making my overall damage worse!

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