1. #1
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Pipe Dreams: or, "If i could rewrite WoW back at the beginning...."

    [reposted from a different thread]

    if i could go back in time and rewrite WoW from the beginning,
    I would redesign warlocks to not be all demon all the time, but rather the three specializations would be:

    Demonology:
    (choose any 1 of 5 Permanent pets [the current demon pets], use demonic runes as a secondary resource, fire based spells (Rain of Fire, incinerate, immolate, soul fire, fel flame), mana based spell grant runes>rune spells grant a stacking buff on the pet>buff is consumed to periodically empower the pet>pet attacks restore mana, Kill Command and Blink Strike based pet nukes.
    *Summary: a cross between a destro lock and an Unholy Death Knight/BeastMaster, without the DoTs.

    Necromancy:
    (Lots of little temporary pets [basically skeletons and ghosts, instead of wild imps, spawned by DoT ticks, by casting nukes, and by executing targets], necromantic energy as resource [just like demonic fury], Lich Form as toggle-able stance, frost and shadow based magic, Howling Blast in place of Hand of Gul'dan, Touch of the Grave instead of Touch of Chaos, Frozen Soul instead of Molten Core, Freeze Soul instead of Soul Fire)
    *summary: A demonology lock without a permanent pet, and frost/undead themed spells.

    Witchcraft:
    (no pets, disease-type DoTs, DoT spreading via pestilence, Blood Boil, Death and Decay, fears, hexes, curses, banes, channeled fillers
    *summary: an affliction lock or shadow priest with Deathknight like AoE.


    What are your wild pipe dreams for redesigning the warlock class?
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2012-11-15 at 05:45 PM.

  2. #2
    Demo in your version doesn't appeal much to me, tbh. Necromancy looks pretty fun, but I'd probably be Witchcraft mainspec. I've always loved the idea of all the tiny curses and diseases together completely destroying opponents.
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  3. #3
    There's really no good reason why any class should have 3 DPS Specs. Every class should have at least one Non-DPS Spec.

    Warlocks already have a history of drain tanking, and this could become a serious option with a few tweaks.
    Rogues could have a spec that specializes in evasion tanking and mitigating damage through trick maneuvers.
    Mages could have a spec that focuses arcane power into someone and enhances their mitigation.
    Hunters could have a spec that combines herbal remedies and spirit links to heal.
    Last edited by Telemont; 2012-11-19 at 02:33 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Telemont View Post
    There's really no good reason why any class should have 3 DPS Specs. Every class should have at least one Non-DPS Spec.

    Warlocks already have a history of drain tanking, and this could become a serious option with a few tweaks.
    Rogues could have a spec that specializes in evasion tanking and mitigating damage through trick maneuvers.
    Mages could have a spec that focuses arcane power into someone and enhances their mitigation.
    Hunters could have a spec that combines herbal remedies and spirit links to heal.
    Going to have to agree with this.

    It adds far more diversity on roles, it adds new forms of those roles. Tanks via massive evasion, healing like a alchemist. It breaks the mold of class stereotypes and gives new views on them. Sort of like Rift's classes with Rogue Tanks and Mage Healers, very interesting stuff.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Telemont View Post
    There's really no good reason why any class should have 3 DPS Specs. Every class should have at least one Non-DPS Spec.

    Mages could have a spec that focuses arcane power into someone and enhances their mitigation.
    Hunters could have a spec that combines herbal remedies and spirit links to heal.
    The problem being, the result of trying to hamfistedly shoehorn a spec that doesn't fit results in things like the above - those just sound completely absurd to me - you may as well have given the rogues a healer tree that consisted of stabbing the raid with medicine-coated daggers. They just don't feel like they fit.

    I'll gladly take 3 dps specs if they can make them feel different, over having 1 spec that feels like it was put in as the token none-dps spec.

    If a class can accommodate a none-dps spec - that's great, but it needs to fit from conception, and that would limit some ideas that simply don't fit or result in other classes having to cover what could have otherwise been a seperate class. You may get your rogue with an evasion based tanking tree, but it would probably have quite a lot of crossover with what a demon-hunter class could have had, potentially leaving no room for said demon-hunter class to fit in due to the amount of crossover it has.

    I consider the same thing true of the OPs post - the warlock class is being diluted in it by making one tree necromancy, which completely stifles the potential for an actual necromancer class (And I only rolled a warlock because there was no necromancer back in classic), and has zero place fitting in with the W3 vision of what a warlock is - the class itself would no longer really be a warlock, it would have to be some generic "Dark Caster" class or somesuch.

    I know - I'm just throwing criticism around without offering much of my own, but lo and behold - 'tis my opinion on the matter.

  6. #6
    Why does every class have to have THREE AND ONLY THREE specs? I mean, now Druids actually have four. Do pure DPS classes need three? I'd rather have two specs that are well balanced and the players "get" what is going on. It just always seems like one of the three is a complete abortion that most people actively avoid.
    So I guess that would be one aspect of design where I wouldn't necessarily want to always commit to being locked into trying to come up with 3 specs per class.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    you may as well have given the rogues a healer tree that consisted of stabbing the raid with medicine-coated daggers. They just don't feel like they fit..
    Yeah, a Rogue dodging to tank sounds just ludicrous! Next thing you know, Mages will summon food from the nether!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Assumi View Post
    Yeah, a Rogue dodging to tank sounds just ludicrous! Next thing you know, Mages will summon food from the nether!
    Rogue that focus on poison and potions for debuffs and buff that also heal the group...
    Also warlock that sacrifices their demon to be a evil mage, and a demo tank
    Mage that can heal using Arcane magic maybe even use time to undo the damage
    Hunter that can tank (closer to a melee hunter) and one the doesn't use a pet that focus on just long range.



    not that hard if you ask me!
    Last edited by Landin55; 2012-11-20 at 07:41 AM.
    "I just wanted them to hand us our award! But they were just talk!, talk!, talk!......" - Wrathion

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Assumi View Post
    Yeah, a Rogue dodging to tank sounds just ludicrous! Next thing you know, Mages will summon food from the nether!
    I regularly see said rogue idea banded around in the stupid threads asking for every class to get a 4th spec in the next expansion.

    The point is, half of the "solutions" to the none-existant problem that is a pure dps class, consist of shoehorning in something that either doesn't fit with the class image, steps on the toes of other classes or potential future classes (homogenization ho!), fixes a problem that doesn't exist, or all of the above.

    "rogues that tank by dodging" - you mean a demon hunter?
    "hunters that tank via melee" - again, rather close to a demon hunter.
    "Warlocks suddenly beng necromancers" - simultaneously stepping on the toes of DKs, preventing a true necromancer class AND having nothing to do with warlocks

    There are some changes that can fit - a warlock tanking tree can be edged in without much problem - it makes sense. But there are some things that are so at odds with everything - a damn melee, tanking hunter for instance, that makes me ask why the devil you rolled a hunter if you don't want to be a ranged dps focused on using a pet. I mean, it's what the class has been for 8 years - it's as staple an mmo / RPG character type as you get. If you want sardines, pick up a can of sardines. Don't pick up a can of beans and then decide they should make sardine flavored beans instead.

    I'm typing far too much over forum fanfiction that won't be happening, but hopefully I get my point across somewhere within all the ranting, raving and gnashing of teeth.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    The problem being, the result of trying to hamfistedly shoehorn a spec that doesn't fit results in things like the above - those just sound completely absurd to me - you may as well have given the rogues a healer tree that consisted of stabbing the raid with medicine-coated daggers. They just don't feel like they fit.
    The only one of those that was rather ham fisted was the mage, and that doesn't mean there is not a perfectly good and fitting idea out there, just that I did not think of it and put it here. The rest are perfectly fine and actually build upon skills those classes already possess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    The point is, half of the "solutions" to the none-existant problem that is a pure dps class.
    Pure dps classes are definitely a problem, just not one that has a very high priority. There have to be checks and balances to the various classes regarding what specs they can and cannot possess. If hybrids are doing just as much DPS as a pure DPS class then there is very little mechanical incentive to select any class but the hybrid. Of course the solution is not to nerf hybrid DPS, but to turn everyone into a hybrid.

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    mechanical incentive is not strictly relegated to dual spec utility.
    all the pure dps have mechanical utility in end game PvE and PvP settings, and all the pures are represented in that content.

    I have yet to see every mage, warlocks, hunter and rogue quit their class and pick up a druid strictly because versatility trumps all other differences.

    finally, mechanical incentive has to be balanced with aesthetic incentive.

  12. #12
    I think those who are fond of the idea of multiple specs ( more than 3) as well as more than dps roles for all classes (OP included) , should just play Rift.

    It describes perfectly most of the things spoken of here.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    I have yet to see every mage, warlocks, hunter and rogue quit their class and pick up a druid strictly because versatility trumps all other differences.
    I've seen plenty, and not a day goes by where I do not wish I could do something else with my warlock when we've got more DPS classes than we can shake a stick at.
    Quote Originally Posted by wholol View Post
    I think those who are fond of the idea of multiple specs ( more than 3) as well as more than dps roles for all classes (OP included) , should just play Rift.
    Or DC Universe, or any of the many online games that allow every class to have at least a secondary role. There's no need to leave WOW for that. It's a successful business model, and it is going to eventually happen to WOW. It's just going to take a while.

  14. #14
    Coming from Guild Wars, I don't see anything wrong with hunter melee spec. It's 'kindaish' like combat rogue, medium armor, high mobility melee with pet. It's wow that spoiled warriors in PLATE who can zip around faster than someone wearing some cloth. In fact, it would be very interesting if they would make BM spec a melee one, atm the shooting part in the spec is simply bland. Just like drunk pandas dodge unpredictably, rogues could be masters of parrying and evading death blows. I can't see mages tanking, but a healer tree? You may need divine powers to resurrect someone, but I don't see why couldn't you use nether stuff to 'just' heal wounds, or spellsteal debuffs that could be purged later (or kept on for some reason).

    When it comes to locks, Demo tanking is most obvious, perma meta, but pets only serving as cooldowns (think like summonning Void for few seconds when barksin-like effect is applied on you, or Succy fading you into limited invis making spells miss you for few sec). I would love to play Necromancer, but I don't think scourge have that much common with demonic magic, and Unholy Death Knights kinda fit that role already. I sure wouldn't mind being able to heal others via life stealing foes health though, think of Emerald Drake in Occulus.

  15. #15
    I'd probably give one of the rogue specs kind of a mid-range dps style. Maybe combat since it's the least stealth-oriented, or a new spec altogether. Give it an overall "bandit" feel so it still feels like rogue, use axes or knives as throwing weapons, maybe create wind blades when using swords, and shockwaves when using maces and fist weapons (kind of how like monks' jab "changes" when using different weapons), have both gap closers and openers, etc. So in a raid setting, maybe they wouldn't be all up in the enemy's face, but instead be all flashy (dashing rogues!) and opportunistic from a short distance, rather than stealthy, and for pvp, have a lot of counter-cc and opportunity abilities not based on stealth. Like, less kitable, but a higher skillcap or something like that.

    Something weird like that is one of the things I'd do. I haven't really fleshed it out in my mind.
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle
    Also, it's should HAVE. NOT "should of". "Should of" doesn't even make sense. If you think you should own a cat, do you say "I should of a cat" or "I should have a cat"? Do you HAVE cats, or do you OF cats?

  16. #16
    i would make warlocks full time demon form in demonology and let them fly as well

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