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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Demec View Post
    Not sure if you have had the pleasure to grind these 3 daily fishing quests Flying Tiger Gourami, Mimic Octopus & Spinefish Alpha, they takes around 2 hours/day with good luck. I´m sure you will love em.
    Those aren't daily quests, they are rare catches you find when you fish... You aren't supposed to find all of them every day, if even one per day.

    I think pretty much everything that needs to be said has been said in this thread;
    Daily quests aren't mandatory, there are alternative means of obtaining gear outside of them, that being heroic dungeons, pvp and raids.
    The coins were meant to be a bonus for raiders so they have another reason to log in every week aside from the scheduled raids, they serve this purpose well and do not need to be changed. They are far from mandatory considering the really low chance of you even getting a piece of loot from the boss, and even if you do it might be something you already have or otherwise don't need.

    Daily quests are fine, if you don't like them then do what you do with other content you don't like, avoid it.

  2. #222
    Dear everyone. The problem is not that any of the items or systems being complained about are mandatory, they clearly are not. The problem is that making the following choice:

    "I am going to maximize my PVE gear and raid progression on my main"

    now takes an order of magnitude more time investment than it did in previous expansions. Consider the following:

    Maximizing PVE gear progression now revolves around one new system in addition to the previous ones, Elder Charms of Good Fortune. Their existence increases the grind associated with the above choice.
    Valor gear is now locked behind reputations, increasing the initial grind with the above choice,
    Valor point rewards while now also coming from two new avenues in Daily Quests and Scenarios, have had all their existing reward values reduced by at least 40%. A heroic dungeon rewards at most 80 points per run, down from 150 points in 4.3. A wing of LFR rewards 90 points per run, down from 250 points. Killing a normal mode raid boss awards 25 points, down from 100. The amount of time require to reach the weekly cap of 1000 valor points has increased by an order of magnitude, and the majority of it is done outside of raid instances, which was not the case for successful raiders in any previous tier or any previous expansion (going back even as far as Badges of Justice in Burning Crusade).
    The pattern for critical item enhancements such as high end weapon and wrist enchants, belt buckles, and leg patches are now hidden behind reputations, making them more expensive forcing raiders to spend more time making money to maintain upkeep on their gear.
    Cauldrons are gone and feasts are no longer capable of providing the best available food buffs, and 300 stat food materials are exceptionally more onerous than previous best of breed food buffs making maintaining raid consumables more expensive than before.

    So no, none of this stuff is mandatory, not LFR, not Elder Charms, not valor epics, not daily quests, not rep grinds, nor expensive enchants, nor expensive consumables, nor scenarios, nor heroics, etc. None of it is mandatory. However, making the choice to maximize your PVE progression is a more arduous and time consuming choice today than it has been since burning crusade, and that is not a good direction for wow to take. It is terrible design, and it should be called out as such by the community.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasX View Post
    but I can understand the point of view of players who say "there is no optional content; if it makes my character stronger I must do it".
    That's not the issue though. The issue is that those people want Blizz to make it so that everything that can possibly make your character stronger can be done in a way that they specifically want, and in the timeframe they want it in.

    A perfect reference quoted from Deadmanwalking above:

    It would be like me bitching that I can't make my own pandaren Feast because I don't like leveling secondary professions like cooking. Should Blizzard allow me to collect pandaren feasts by defeating bosses where I also get my valor, loot, justice points, gear and gold?

  4. #224
    Bloodsail Admiral moremana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critcross View Post
    Having not played WoW for about 9 months i decided to come back to MoP. This expansion is killing me the daily quests for rep grind is ridiculous to me what is the reason for this much dailies and how do you think this is fun. In my guild not sure about everyone elses it makes for a rather dull environment as everyone comes on at different times its hard to wait and group up for these dailies as everyone is just trying to get these done. This can take about 2 hours maybe more to complete. In the past you did a few dailies which were quick then you could run a few dungeons with guildmates and thats good because if you dont raid this was the only way to get to know one another and earn respect or build relationships. Now its just a pure grind and yes i have read its your choice to do this and all but I call BS because you have tied rep to gear so yea it sucks. Again....what was the intention and how can anyone consider this to be good for the game.
    Unsub like I did, solves the problem, did it 2 months ago and until Blizz fixes it I will stay that way, I'm doing much needed stuff, working more, spending more time with the family, hell I am starting to realize that wow is a time sink and really not that fun any more. Really, I don't miss it at all.

  5. #225
    Maybe i should have worded the title of my post differently or explained it in a different way but im not a professional writer and finding it very hard to explain what im feeling about this game. Ill try one last time though.

    Dailies are just a portion of the problem that is getting away from the vision of social gaming. Stop arguing that you can group up to do this content because its not being done by majority. This is my opinion from what im observing and experiencing. Me choosing to not do them doesnt solve my problem. There are just ALOT of things that you can do solo than ever before. From old raids, dungeons, pet battles, more than i can think of right now. Dont misunderstand im not asking for a perfect game but there is something wrong when i feel this is not really an "MMO" anymore. Is this the direction you want your WoW to go.

    Daily questing was just the flavor of the month to talk about or like alot of you interpreted i was complaining about. I guess there is no way to express yourself without people getting defensive or lashing out at you like im "whining" or "crying" In the end i brought this topic up because i do want a better game for everyone. I am mature enough to stop doing things i dont like or stop playing the game period.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by DisposableHero View Post
    However, making the choice to maximize your PVE progression is a more arduous and time consuming choice today than it has been since burning crusade, and that is not a good direction for wow to take. It is terrible design, and it should be called out as such by the community.
    Intersting how the community has been calling out that it has been too quick to gear up since WotLK launched. Now, it's too long?

    Everything Blizz does is "terrible design" by some portion of the community.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by DisposableHero View Post
    Dear everyone. The problem is not that any of the items or systems being complained about are mandatory, they clearly are not. The problem is that making the following choice:

    "I am going to maximize my PVE gear and raid progression on my main"

    now takes an order of magnitude more time investment than it did in previous expansions. Consider the following:

    Maximizing PVE gear progression now revolves around one new system in addition to the previous ones, Elder Charms of Good Fortune. Their existence increases the grind associated with the above choice.
    Valor gear is now locked behind reputations, increasing the initial grind with the above choice,
    Valor point rewards while now also coming from two new avenues in Daily Quests and Scenarios, have had all their existing reward values reduced by at least 40%. A heroic dungeon rewards at most 80 points per run, down from 150 points in 4.3. A wing of LFR rewards 90 points per run, down from 250 points. Killing a normal mode raid boss awards 25 points, down from 100. The amount of time require to reach the weekly cap of 1000 valor points has increased by an order of magnitude, and the majority of it is done outside of raid instances, which was not the case for successful raiders in any previous tier or any previous expansion (going back even as far as Badges of Justice in Burning Crusade).
    The pattern for critical item enhancements such as high end weapon and wrist enchants, belt buckles, and leg patches are now hidden behind reputations, making them more expensive forcing raiders to spend more time making money to maintain upkeep on their gear.
    Cauldrons are gone and feasts are no longer capable of providing the best available food buffs, and 300 stat food materials are exceptionally more onerous than previous best of breed food buffs making maintaining raid consumables more expensive than before.

    So no, none of this stuff is mandatory, not LFR, not Elder Charms, not valor epics, not daily quests, not rep grinds, nor expensive enchants, nor expensive consumables, nor scenarios, nor heroics, etc. None of it is mandatory. However, making the choice to maximize your PVE progression is a more arduous and time consuming choice today than it has been since burning crusade, and that is not a good direction for wow to take. It is terrible design, and it should be called out as such by the community.
    This is a great response and what i was looking for.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Critcross View Post
    Maybe i should have worded the title of my post differently or explained it in a different way but im not a professional writer and finding it very hard to explain what im feeling about this game. Ill try one last time though.

    Dailies are just a portion of the problem that is getting away from the vision of social gaming. Stop arguing that you can group up to do this content because its not being done by majority. This is my opinion from what im observing and experiencing. Me choosing to not do them doesnt solve my problem. There are just ALOT of things that you can do solo than ever before. From old raids, dungeons, pet battles, more than i can think of right now. Dont misunderstand im not asking for a perfect game but there is something wrong when i feel this is not really an "MMO" anymore. Is this the direction you want your WoW to go.

    Daily questing was just the flavor of the month to talk about or like alot of you interpreted i was complaining about. I guess there is no way to express yourself without people getting defensive or lashing out at you like im "whining" or "crying" In the end i brought this topic up because i do want a better game for everyone. I am mature enough to stop doing things i dont like or stop playing the game period.
    Social aspect started to die out in Wrath with dungeon finder when people stopped talking to each other. With Dungeon Finder, Scenarios, LFR and soon Brawler's Guild I would say there is more group content than ever before. If people socialize with each other or not during this is not really Blizzard's fault/problem. You want more social game time? Do like me and do everything in guild runs, be it daily quests or dungeons, I never do them alone.

  9. #229
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisposableHero View Post
    Dear everyone. The problem is not that any of the items or systems being complained about are mandatory, they clearly are not. The problem is that making the following choice:

    "I am going to maximize my PVE gear and raid progression on my main"
    You've made that choice though, that's what people are trying to say. If you changed that one sentence to "I am going to clear the hardest content this tier" then you realize that you can live without having to have everything. Do you have to have every recipe or could you get the enchanting ones while a guild mate gets the belt buckle? Do you need exalted with every rep or do you really only need honoured with a particular faction?

    This expansion is trying to slow progression because Blizzard obviously felt it was too quick to gear up in Cata. BIS is a goal but they don't want you to reach it in the first 2 months of the expansion. Even cata had crafted gear gated behind a rep grind. Plus they also clearly don't want alt crafting mules, at least not yet but motes of harmony will likely lose the soulbound eventually.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Critcross View Post
    Dailies are just a portion of the problem that is getting away from the vision of social gaming.
    How are dailies getting "away from the vision of social gaming"? If anything, I see more people outside of cities. I have talked with some, and most have been pretty nice. This was not happening much before. So, I would say that getting people out of cities is a good first step. Of course, it is not the only solution, and should be built upon (i.e. more outside activities). But, I think it's a good start to get people used to being out in the world instead of parking in SW/Org.

    Just my opinion.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Critcross View Post
    Maybe i should have worded the title of my post differently or explained it in a different way but im not a professional writer and finding it very hard to explain what im feeling about this game. Ill try one last time though.

    Dailies are just a portion of the problem that is getting away from the vision of social gaming. Stop arguing that you can group up to do this content because its not being done by majority. This is my opinion from what im observing and experiencing. Me choosing to not do them doesnt solve my problem. There are just ALOT of things that you can do solo than ever before. From old raids, dungeons, pet battles, more than i can think of right now. Dont misunderstand im not asking for a perfect game but there is something wrong when i feel this is not really an "MMO" anymore. Is this the direction you want your WoW to go.

    Daily questing was just the flavor of the month to talk about or like alot of you interpreted i was complaining about. I guess there is no way to express yourself without people getting defensive or lashing out at you like im "whining" or "crying" In the end i brought this topic up because i do want a better game for everyone. I am mature enough to stop doing things i dont like or stop playing the game period.
    So because it's not being done by the majority means that it can't be done? If you want to make it social then make it social. If people don't want to be social then that's not the fault of the game it's the fault of the people.

    The insane thing is that you for some reason think this is better than running dungeons with people who you never talk to, aside from maybe a hello at the beginning. Being in close proximity to other people for ~30 minutes is not being social. These dailies haven't done anything to make the game less social. In fact for a lot of people I've talked to it's done the opposite.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    Intersting how the community has been calling out that it has been too quick to gear up since WotLK launched. Now, it's too long?

    Everything Blizz does is "terrible design" by some portion of the community.
    1) I personally have never found and never complained that the gearing up process has been too short, I have always felt that if you wanted to raid it was somewhat absurd that the majority of your time spent in support of that goal is actually done outside a raid instance. Do not put the words in my mouth. Judging by the relative popularity of raiding having gone way up since burning crusade, I'd be hard pressed to say that the few loud malcontents who want their elite and envied status back represent a general consensus among the community. The current design is in my opinion a clear and large step backwards.

    2) Even if gearing up was too fast in WotLK, that does not preclude it from being too slow now. The current design could be hastened in a lot of ways while still being slower than the Wrath model.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by DisposableHero View Post
    Dear everyone. The problem is not that any of the items or systems being complained about are mandatory, they clearly are not. The problem is that making the following choice:

    "I am going to maximize my PVE gear and raid progression on my main"

    now takes an order of magnitude more time investment than it did in previous expansions. Consider the following:

    Maximizing PVE gear progression now revolves around one new system in addition to the previous ones, Elder Charms of Good Fortune. Their existence increases the grind associated with the above choice.
    Valor gear is now locked behind reputations, increasing the initial grind with the above choice,
    Valor point rewards while now also coming from two new avenues in Daily Quests and Scenarios, have had all their existing reward values reduced by at least 40%. A heroic dungeon rewards at most 80 points per run, down from 150 points in 4.3. A wing of LFR rewards 90 points per run, down from 250 points. Killing a normal mode raid boss awards 25 points, down from 100. The amount of time require to reach the weekly cap of 1000 valor points has increased by an order of magnitude, and the majority of it is done outside of raid instances, which was not the case for successful raiders in any previous tier or any previous expansion (going back even as far as Badges of Justice in Burning Crusade).
    The pattern for critical item enhancements such as high end weapon and wrist enchants, belt buckles, and leg patches are now hidden behind reputations, making them more expensive forcing raiders to spend more time making money to maintain upkeep on their gear.
    Cauldrons are gone and feasts are no longer capable of providing the best available food buffs, and 300 stat food materials are exceptionally more onerous than previous best of breed food buffs making maintaining raid consumables more expensive than before.

    So no, none of this stuff is mandatory, not LFR, not Elder Charms, not valor epics, not daily quests, not rep grinds, nor expensive enchants, nor expensive consumables, nor scenarios, nor heroics, etc. None of it is mandatory. However, making the choice to maximize your PVE progression is a more arduous and time consuming choice today than it has been since burning crusade, and that is not a good direction for wow to take. It is terrible design, and it should be called out as such by the community.
    If you're maximizing your raiding progression Dailies and Valor gear are not the optimal way to do it, or at the very least are a very minor part of doing it. You're going to want crafted gear (someone on your server has done the grinds without complaining) and Dungeon Gear. That should get you through MV even if you are a little lacking on skill. Then you move up to Heart of Fear where Valor gear becomes obsolete. That's right, Gear from Heart of Fear and Terrace of the Spring makes Valor gear Obsolete.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    How are dailies getting "away from the vision of social gaming"? If anything, I see more people outside of cities. I have talked with some, and most have been pretty nice. This was not happening much before. So, I would say that getting people out of cities is a good first step. Of course, it is not the only solution, and should be built upon (i.e. more outside activities). But, I think it's a good start to get people used to being out in the world instead of parking in SW/Org.

    Just my opinion.
    I dont know but when im out and about doing dailies i may talk to people here and there but never see them again. But what your saying is not wrong i get what you are saying.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by DisposableHero View Post
    1) I personally have never found and never complained that the gearing up process has been too short, I have always felt that if you wanted to raid it was somewhat absurd that the majority of your time spent in support of that goal is actually done outside a raid instance. Do not put the words in my mouth. Judging by the relative popularity of raiding having gone way up since burning crusade, I'd be hard pressed to say that the few loud malcontents who want their elite and envied status back represent a general consensus among the community. The current design is in my opinion a clear and large step backwards.

    2) Even if gearing up was too fast in WotLK, that does not preclude it from being too slow now. The current design could be hastened in a lot of ways while still being slower than the Wrath model.
    It's really not any slower though since it would take minimum of 2 weeks to get enough valor to get 1 item. In 2 weeks you can get Klaxxi and Golden Lotus to revered. The difference being that instead of mindlessly running dungeons to cap your valor then walking up to a vendor you have to put in a little more effort in the way of Dailies to get that gear.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasffion View Post
    So because it's not being done by the majority means that it can't be done? If you want to make it social then make it social. If people don't want to be social then that's not the fault of the game it's the fault of the people.

    The insane thing is that you for some reason think this is better than running dungeons with people who you never talk to, aside from maybe a hello at the beginning. Being in close proximity to other people for ~30 minutes is not being social. These dailies haven't done anything to make the game less social. In fact for a lot of people I've talked to it's done the opposite.
    i dont recall saying running dungeons was better

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasX View Post
    Every raid dungeon is a finish line, every tier the end goal. Whether or not dailies are "worth it" boils down to how competitive you are with the other players / guilds on your realm / world area.

    I'm currently not very competitive but I can understand the point of view of players who say "there is no optional content; if it makes my character stronger Faster and more efficiently I must do it".
    Fixed that for you. Just because you get it faster and more efficiently does not make the bis gear stronger.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Critcross View Post
    i dont recall saying running dungeons was better
    Then why are you complaining NOW? Why is your 'gaming experience ruined' NOW instead of back in Wrath when they implemented LFD? Or all through Cataclysm when it was in use? Why do you think Dailies has caused it?

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Critcross View Post
    I dont know but when im out and about doing dailies i may talk to people here and there but never see them again. But what your saying is not wrong i get what you are saying.
    But at least you are now talking with others. That is a step up from where things were. Also, you do have the choice to talk to them again if you wanted. That's all I was trying to get at. It's not that Blizz created this awesome social atmosphere where all of a sudden everyone will become friends instantly. I was just saying that Blizz has created an opportunity for people to start flexing those social muscles that they have kept away for the past few years.

    Example - you meet someone grinding dailies. You might make a connection with that person if you are both raiders grinding for some gear. Now, you might want to discuss raid schedules, and maybe this person can help fill in when your guild is short a person or two.

    Things like that.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasffion View Post
    These dailies haven't done anything to make the game less social. In fact for a lot of people I've talked to it's done the opposite.
    I agree. I was doing Golden Lotus dailies yesterday and stumbled across a rare leet 91 in the Dailies spot. I called out for a group and got another druid and a pally. We 3 manned the rarespawn and 5 mobs into the ground without a wipe. I was in shock. I've since added these two people to my friends list and will probably see if they are on at the same time tonight. Dailies have been much more fun since I started doing them in a group.

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