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  1. #1
    Brewmaster chaosjones's Avatar
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    Elegon 10m N trouble with last fase

    Hey everyone.

    My group is having trouble with the last fase and maybe all fases in the elegon 10m N fight.

    world of logs try01
    world of logs try02
    world of logs try05
    world of logs try06
    world of logs try07
    world of logs try09
    world of logs try10
    world of logs try12
    world of logs try15

    Not sure what the problem is so im hoping some of you world of logs specialist can help us.

    Our group have had a little trouble with people leaving the team during progress and its hard on my server to find replacements.

    We clear the first 4 bosses with no problem 1-1½ hours normally and then we bang our heads on elegon for the next 2-3 hours everytime.

    We also have a problem. we have 3 healers a resto druid a holy paladin and me a holy priest(gonna go disc in future)
    Im normally dps'ing on elegon but im also the second best healer the holy paladin rapes me.
    And the druid just don't have good dps so we kind of need to have me dps'ing while I clearly would be a better choice for healing but I also top the dps.

    help please.

    my armory 481.9ilvl in healing and 484.7 in dps. normally when second boss is dead I reforge to dps while the group clear trash.
    Last edited by chaosjones; 2012-11-15 at 06:28 PM.

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  2. #2
    Only your lock and shadow priest are doing good damage. Your tanks are especially low (yes, tanks do real DPS now). Almost everyone should be 90k+ on this fight.

    How many charges are you doing? The logs are showing strange things...

  3. #3
    Your groups DPS is a bit on the low end. Prot war should be much higher. Have your hunter multi-shot the center energy charges on one side immediately upon spawning, it does a lot of damage and if he's quick he can get 2 off on at least the first 2 waves, sometimes even the third. I could nearly solo a side with my hunter (I don't though there is no reason to try this) for at least the first wave - it gives the rest of your DPS and yourself more time on Elegon between charges. And you should definitely be doing at least 4 waves per charge phase but it seems you were already doing that (or attempting to).

    Your ele sham and mage's uptime on Touch of the Titans looks a bit low, make sure they are in there as often as possible. I believe on a typical normal attempt it should be just short of 80% uptime (yours for example is 78.7 which sounds about right). Make sure your dps are on Elegon between when charges die and spawn. I think a lot of people probably tunnel a bit here on the charges and neglect doing anything in between when they could be hitting Elegon. I know on our first pulls at first I didn't even know he could still be attacked during that phase.

    If they are careful, the ranged can stand just on the edge and retain the Touch of the Titans debuff until it disappears when the pit opens up, while also not falling into the pit. Roughly the same position you stand so that you only have to jump to reset your stacks.

    I didn't really look too much into the logs otherwise, just going for general tips I don't really have the time for that

  4. #4
    Brewmaster chaosjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Only your lock and shadow priest are doing good damage. Your tanks are especially low (yes, tanks do real DPS now). Almost everyone should be 90k+ on this fight.

    How many charges are you doing? The logs are showing strange things...
    try06 was our best try were dps is alot higher than what you see in try01 we are trying to get 4-5 down tbh can't remember

    also im the shadow priest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    Your groups DPS is a bit on the low end. Prot war should be much higher. Have your hunter multi-shot the center energy charges on one side immediately upon spawning, it does a lot of damage and if he's quick he can get 2 off on at least the first 2 waves, sometimes even the third. I could nearly solo a side with my hunter (I don't though there is no reason to try this) for at least the first wave - it gives the rest of your DPS and yourself more time on Elegon between charges. And you should definitely be doing at least 4 waves per charge phase but it seems you were already doing that (or attempting to).

    Your ele sham and mage's uptime on Touch of the Titans looks a bit low, make sure they are in there as often as possible. I believe on a typical normal attempt it should be just short of 80% uptime (yours for example is 78.7 which sounds about right). Make sure your dps are on Elegon between when charges die and spawn. I think a lot of people probably tunnel a bit here on the charges and neglect doing anything in between when they could be hitting Elegon. I know on our first pulls at first I didn't even know he could still be attacked during that phase.

    If they are careful, the ranged can stand just on the edge and retain the Touch of the Titans debuff until it disappears when the pit opens up, while also not falling into the pit. Roughly the same position you stand so that you only have to jump to reset your stacks.

    I didn't really look too much into the logs otherwise, just going for general tips I don't really have the time for that
    Thanks for the feedback. if its no trouble can you please give feedback on our best try try06.

    The hunter was a pug. So we will most likely not see him again.
    No clue regarding prot warrios so don't know what he can do to do better dps.

    we were trying 4-5 charges everytime which = 5-6 stacks so we got the most dps out of it.

    but please give feedback on our best try at least.

    when i personally look at the logs. suck at it but i think we need more healing in the end that seems to kill us. but I am the the third healer and removing me as dps seems like a bad choice.

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  5. #5
    One of the best skills you can have post raid is the ability to dissect your logs. I found this video last year and made my team watch it, learn it, love it.



  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by chaosjones View Post
    try06
    when i personally look at the logs. suck at it but i think we need more healing in the end that seems to kill us. but I am the the third healer and removing me as dps seems like a bad choice.
    Try casting Cascade on the raid whenever you have the chance and especially after the add explodes. It heals for quite a bit with the 50% buff. I know it hurts your DPS, but it should save your healers some MP for the final phase of the fight.

    Shame we can't see your healers' gear, both are in their melee DPS Specs
    Last edited by Yisile; 2012-11-15 at 07:26 PM.

  7. #7
    Brewmaster chaosjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yisile View Post
    Try casting Cascade on the raid whenever you have the chance and especially after the add explodes. It heals for quite a bit with the 50% buff. I know it hurts your DPS, but it should save your healers some MP for the final phase of the fight.
    using halo

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  8. #8
    Just do 4 charges each time. That's 10 stacks, which should be more than enough. My guild's first kill we did 4 charges then 3; 9 stacks. We were just above 463 ilvl. You guys should be a hell of a lot more geared than we were.

    When you kill the 4 charges, just DPS Elegon while the 5th charges are out. This will net you more DPS on the boss which will lower his HP in the next P1. That makes it easier to do phases with less Protectors and also shortens the last phase.

    Healing in the last phase should not be a problem. You have enough CDs to live for a long time. The more DPS you do, the faster he dies, the less stacks you get, the less healing is required.

    Your DPS needs to be higher, including your tanks'.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by chaosjones View Post
    we were trying 4-5 charges everytime which = 5-6 stacks so we got the most dps out of it.
    I'm not sure how to read this. Are you trying for 4 or 5? You should allow the last wave (whatever it is) to flow through w/o dpsing the charges. Use this time to dps the boss. Shortens the final phase. I'd suggest doing 4 charges. It's sufficient.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinsoul View Post
    I'm not sure how to read this. Are you trying for 4 or 5? You should allow the last wave (whatever it is) to flow through w/o dpsing the charges. Use this time to dps the boss. Shortens the final phase. I'd suggest doing 4 charges. It's sufficient.
    I agree with this. 4 should be plenty. The most unfortuante thing that happens is people dpsing the last set of orbs where they should be dpsing the boss. 4, let the other go while on the boss.
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  11. #11
    Your shamans uptime on the touch is low on try 6 as well, mages is a bit better.

    Look at the damage graph at about 21:19:30 for try 6. Your lock is doing ~130k DPS while your ele sham is doing ~40k. I suspect that is one of the periods he was not getting the +50% damage, but even with that that only puts him at ~60k, and 60k is very low still while being buffed by Touch. It might be during pillars and the lock might be inflated from multi-dotting or something, but he still shouldn't be that low. This is just a case of.... your raiders need to play better.

    Your blood DK could consider Death Siphon talent, its supposed to benefit from both the +damage and +healing of the Touch debuff and such be relatively powerful on Elegon from an "increasing tank dps while not killing survivability" standpoint. This is only something I read, I haven't tried it personally so I can't guarantee its effectiveness.

    Other than hunters and a lesser extent Blood DK's I can't really provide much useful advice class-wise.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by chaosjones View Post
    using halo
    I've found that using cascade on this fight is much better than halo. It will hit all of the charges in addition to the pillars, costs way less mana on a much shorter CD, and can be used easily to give some bonus healing when the raid is spread out. Twist of fate is extremely strong for this encounter due to the very high uptime of constantly dying adds. I would take that versus DI, not to mention the crazy bonus damage you see in the final phase. I don't see that you have glyph of Mind Flay either. That bonus movement speed is very helpful. I have PoM bouncing around constantly in the final phase, you didn't use it at all (didn't check if you were glyphed to allow casting in s-form).

    You should only be getting 3 protectors in the second cycle of phase 1. You killed four. That really puts a strain on the healers, and is a good indication that your DPS is too low. We have our melee only come out to the protectors at ~30% to reset stacks and finish them off, giving them much more time on the boss. Your tanks really need to pick it up as Squirl mentioned. Their CD usage was pretty awful. Our prot warrior did 33.9 million damage in a 8:19 fight length compared to 26.4 million in 9:22 for yours, DKs both at 32 million again with the 1 minute discrepancy in fight length.

    It looks like your healers are blowing everything at once in the final phase, before it even gets started. They need to spread out their CDs. I ignore the final set of sparks and pop my Vampiric Embrace with 2nd potion and nuke the boss. This stabilizes the raid while everyone is killing the sparks. Once the sparks are dead, then we pop heroism. We have our holy paladin use CDs first, followed by our resto shaman after. This spreads out the healing and evens it out. They both peak one after the other in the logs. It looks like coming up with a healing CD rotation would be good for you. Are the healers going oom? Make sure to use your hymn of hope for them if needed. I didn't see potions being used by the majority of the group (didn't check every last person). People aren't using their healthstones. They have THREE charges now. Hardly anyone used them.

    Sorry for the wall of text. Lots of places for your group to improve here, especially the DPS. Your Ele shaman's Flame Shock uptime was only 50%, ours was 95%+. Your warlock has low DoT uptime, especially on Agony (can't let that 10 stack drop), and they didn't use Drain Soul during execute. Fire is very strong on this fight, if it's possible for your mage to swap. Best of luck! Cheers.

  13. #13
    Brewmaster chaosjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinsoul View Post
    I'm not sure how to read this. Are you trying for 4 or 5? You should allow the last wave (whatever it is) to flow through w/o dpsing the charges. Use this time to dps the boss. Shortens the final phase. I'd suggest doing 4 charges. It's sufficient.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiry View Post
    I agree with this. 4 should be plenty. The most unfortuante thing that happens is people dpsing the last set of orbs where they should be dpsing the boss. 4, let the other go while on the boss.

    killing 4 trying for 5 was what i meant but after reading both you and kiry's comments ill suggest we only do 4 and nuke the shitt out of him during the fifth


    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    Your shamans uptime on the touch is low on try 6 as well, mages is a bit better.

    Look at the damage graph at about 21:19:30 for try 6. Your lock is doing ~130k DPS while your ele sham is doing ~40k. I suspect that is one of the periods he was not getting the +50% damage, but even with that that only puts him at ~60k, and 60k is very low still while being buffed by Touch. It might be during pillars and the lock might be inflated from multi-dotting or something, but he still shouldn't be that low. This is just a case of.... your raiders need to play better.

    Your blood DK could consider Death Siphon talent, its supposed to benefit from both the +damage and +healing of the Touch debuff and such be relatively powerful on Elegon from an "increasing tank dps while not killing survivability" standpoint. This is only something I read, I haven't tried it personally so I can't guarantee its effectiveness.

    Other than hunters and a lesser extent Blood DK's I can't really provide much useful advice class-wise.
    Ill try explain the tactics we use.

    Dk pulls boss just after popping army.
    When add spawns dk takes add and warrior takes boss.
    Garzia(shaman), Axineya(Mage) and hunter(Pug) dps the protector add when it spawns.
    Saphyron(Priest), Bumblecake(Warlock) and Eullumii(Frost dk) continue dps'ing the boss.
    Rinse repeat 3 times. (please note I put dots on add as well while continuing dps on boss.)
    P2 starts
    Left Side
    We spread out to assigned post DK Tank Druid healer in left group together with Mage Frost Dk and Priest(me)
    We take 1 ball each DK tank helps dk frost and me on the 4-5th in case I get bad procs (mind spike and mind blast is not enough on 4th and 5th if i don't get any procs(tries to save plaque for 5th unless I really need it for 4th))
    Right Side
    Warrior tank Holy paladin Ele shammy Hunter and Lock takes that side with 1 dps on each ball. Not sure what happens over there cause I am focused on my own side.
    We get at least 4 balls down but are allways trying to get the 5th down(after reading feedback this is a no go)
    P3 starts
    Each dps Takes each piller. the one that fits with the ball they were killing and tank/healer in the middle
    Pillers don't go down within 10s of each other since there is too big difference in dps But we clear this fase normally without any issues. runs to middle to stack up. DK usually cc them and so do i while aoe them down whiel waiting for platform to appear.
    When platform appear warrior leap into the boss. melee runs to boss and ranged finish up last adds.
    P1 starts again
    When first add spawn Dk take boss and warrior take add.
    Same idea as last P1
    rinse repeat 5-7 times before we hit 50% health
    P2 starts
    Luck or unlucky has it we are bad at timing so we get a add when boss start doing draw power. but we kill add and first set of balls easily
    rinse and repeat at least 3 more times and again we try for 5th ball
    Around this time there is 2-3min left of berserk.
    P3 starts
    Exactly the same as last part 2 except that when we get to middle we don't waste GCD on cc we just nuke the adds asap.
    P4???
    Every runs in before outer ring appears
    Heroisme gets popped I pop my shield on my self and vampiric embrace
    What usually happens is that before hero runs out at least 1 person is dead.
    wipe at 11-17% not from berserk even though its 10-20sec away but from death.

    TBH don't know when the others is resetting their stacks in last Part but I do it at 5-6

    Hope some can look at World of logs and our tactics and tell us why we wipe.
    My guess is not enough healing from the druid but the only alternative is me and I have too high dps for the druid and me to switch.
    Last edited by chaosjones; 2012-11-15 at 09:37 PM.

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  14. #14
    we kill 4 rounds the first time, 3 the second then just lust and burn the boss after the second transition phase is done. The damage does get high but even with 2 healing the raid should be fine if you coordinate raid CDs and the tanks continue to switch

  15. #15
    try to do more !

  16. #16
    Brewmaster chaosjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartie View Post
    try to do more !
    Don't exactly know what you mean. but the reason I put this on mmo-champ is that we are not sure why we keep wiping after 36 tries. those I linked was the best tries we had.

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by chaosjones View Post
    Don't exactly know what you mean. but the reason I put this on mmo-champ is that we are not sure why we keep wiping after 36 tries. those I linked was the best tries we had.
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    Ignore.

    As far as the strat is concerned, you're getting 5-7 Protectors in the second P1? That's way too much and points to a serious DPS problem (which your logs also show). The fact that it varies so much is telling as well. Overall your strat is solid enough, though.

    Some final tips:
    Post some logs for each player that is lacking in their respective class forums. People are generally willing to help. Your tanks do need to be doing more damage. Tanks do damage that matters now.
    Everyone should prepot and hero pot.
    Set a number of charges and ignore ones that come after; DPS boss during that time. This will let you get less Protectors in the second P1 and have a shorter final phase.
    Kill pillars more evenly for less adds.
    Do not reset stacks in the final phase. Only the tanks should reset at that point.
    Do not overlap CDs in P3. Call for personal cooldowns in P3. Remind people that they do have healthstones.

  18. #18
    What I am seeing is that both of your healers are doing under 40k HPS in the last phase at peak, which is pretty bad. I haven't look at the logs, but I'm guessing that your healers are mostly oom towards the start of p4, especially judging by the fact that their HPS peaks at higher levels earlier in the fight. Make sure that they're staggering CDs to take care of the healing in p1 and that they have all of their healing CDs up for p4 and that they get back as much mana as they can for it.

  19. #19
    Brewmaster chaosjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Posts: 4
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    Ignore.

    As far as the strat is concerned, you're getting 5-7 Protectors in the second P1? That's way too much and points to a serious DPS problem (which your logs also show). The fact that it varies so much is telling as well. Overall your strat is solid enough, though.

    Some final tips:
    Post some logs for each player that is lacking in their respective class forums. People are generally willing to help. Your tanks do need to be doing more damage. Tanks do damage that matters now.
    Everyone should prepot and hero pot.
    Set a number of charges and ignore ones that come after; DPS boss during that time. This will let you get less Protectors in the second P1 and have a shorter final phase.
    Kill pillars more evenly for less adds.
    Do not reset stacks in the final phase. Only the tanks should reset at that point.
    Do not overlap CDs in P3. Call for personal cooldowns in P3. Remind people that they do have healthstones.
    Thanks ill try log/fraps next elegon fight we have.
    Defiantly will talk this over with the other members of group. do take in mind I am not raid leader I am just a healer/dps that wants to help my group getting over the walls that block us.

    Another note though we have in last phase following raid CD:
    Tranq from druid(hopefully he is saving it for that)
    Devotion aura from Holy pala
    Tranq From priest(symbiosis)
    Vampiric Embrace from priest
    Hero from mage/shammy

    Thats all I think.

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  20. #20
    You have a few more than that.

    Warrior has... whatever they have.
    Both DKs can AMZ.
    Shaman has Ascendance (that's the damage to healing one iirc).

    Don't use the Priest Tranq. It's pretty much useless. DPSing is better. Also, I noticed it doesn't look like your Shaman is using Stormlash. That's a pretty major raid DPS cooldown.

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