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  1. #41
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    how about if the amendment took things a lot farther? a set amount of money, air time, etc, given equally to candidates? throw on a minimum of states they are on the ballot in, maybe let some more voices in on a more equal footing. that is my particular pipe dream
    No. That's fine for a law, but as I said, Amendments should be reserved for central concepts to the nation, freedom, liberty, etc... BIG things that are more philosophical standpoints on how the nation views the interaction between itsself and it's people.

    A law clarifying that human beings are the only "people" with rights afforded to the people, by the people would be fine. But that's not Amendment material.

    If say, in the future, there are several sentient races, be they terrestrial, synthetic, alien or otherwise, then an Amendment stating that the "rights of the people" are limited only to sentient beings, sure, Amendment material.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    While I agree that people jump to amendments too often I think one clarifying that only people are actually people isn't a bad candidate.
    What disgusts me is that it seems necessary at all. Corporations aren't people. They're the pulpits of people, the puppets of people, the tools, the soapboxes, the creations of people but are not people. Any child can tell you that a chair isn't a person, that a truck isn't a person, that a building, a dollar, or a computer(as far as we've developed them) isn't a person, so why on earth should anyone older than 5 think that a conglomeration of those things is a person? It's ridiculous! The law should be repealed on the basis that it is founded on complete and utter stupidity.

    Now there's something I will support as an Amendment: "Laws should be founded on reason and logic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    I'd settle with ~5-10%. Enough that any serious candidate can get in but enough to weed out nutbags. Money can be tied to a cost index.
    That doesn't change the fact that even entering just a 3rd party at the national stage would practically preclude a majority win by any one party.

    Are you comfortable with plurality rule?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    That doesn't change the fact that even entering just a 3rd party at the national stage would practically preclude a majority win by any one party.

    Are you comfortable with plurality rule?
    I'm fine with that if it means we're getting more ideas out there. I think getting an actual conservative libertarian candidate and a proper left wing candidate would be great, in addition to the center left democrats and the right wing republicans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Because you're a huge corporation who wants to donate tons of money anonymously?
    Didn't actually pay to much attention to link. But I've noticed its Constitutional Amendment to ban abortion. Constitutional Amendment to ban same sex marriage. etc. Why not just pass a law?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Shop Ebay View Post
    Didn't actually pay to much attention to link. But I've noticed its Constitutional Amendment to ban abortion. Constitutional Amendment to ban same sex marriage. etc. Why not just pass a law?
    You can't really do much to override the supreme court via law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  6. #46
    Mechagnome helheim's Avatar
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    we sued here in montana to get rid of this in our state. state supreme court overruled us. signed the petition anyway.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Shop Ebay View Post
    Didn't actually pay to much attention to link. But I've noticed its Constitutional Amendment to ban abortion. Constitutional Amendment to ban same sex marriage. etc. Why not just pass a law?
    A Constitutional Amendment involves neither the Supreme Court nor the President.

    In fact, it need not even involve Congress.

    In the United States, the Constitution is our highest law, and everything even Congress or the President does is governed by it. Congress also has no say in whether an Amendment passes (Though they do have the ability to propose a bill for Amendment to the States).

    If the states of the United States wanted to draft an entirely new Constitution, they could do it and Congress, the President and SCOTUS would be powerless to stop them because the states would be well within their enumerated rights.
    Last edited by Laize; 2012-11-16 at 03:18 AM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Specific number isn't really important for this discussion.

    That's a problem with a parliamentary system with too many parties. Officially parties don't actually have the power in government here. Won't be an issue.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-16 at 02:05 AM ----------



    No you see, any group of people is officially a person itself!
    General Mills, Exxon, AT&T, Walmart, Toyota...
    Combine to form.....Corporatron! Super powers: considered as one person while having all the power and rights of many.

  9. #49
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    A Constitutional Amendment involves neither the Supreme Court nor the President.

    In fact, it need not even involve Congress.

    In the United States, the Constitution is our highest law, and everything even Congress or the President does is governed by it. Congress also has no say in whether an Amendment passes (Though they do have the ability to propose a bill for Amendment to the States).

    If the states of the United States wanted to draft an entirely new Constitution, they could do it and Congress, the President and SCOTUS would be powerless to stop them because the states would be well within their enumerated rights.
    Legally powerless perhaps, but not totally so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Legally powerless perhaps, but not totally so.
    Uh... are you insinuating a strike by the US military?

  11. #51
    Since Al Franken is and always has been an idiot, I'm not paying attention to anything he's connected with.

  12. #52
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Uh... are you insinuating a strike by the US military?
    The military is a possibility, but I simply mean that if you think some of the wealthiest, most connected people in the world would have absolutely no power to stop something such as the drafting of a new Constitution, you're sorely mistaken. Political clout, leverage, money, and yes, covert and overt force are are realms of power that the government has a great deal of.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  13. #53
    Already signed when someone posted it in another thread last night.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 11:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    The military is a possibility, but I simply mean that if you think some of the wealthiest, most connected people in the world would have absolutely no power to stop something such as the drafting of a new Constitution, you're sorely mistaken. Political clout, leverage, money, and yes, covert and overt force are are realms of power that the government has a great deal of.
    And certain people not actually in the government *cough* grover norquist *cough cough* kock brothers, yet they have a great influence on politics in the US.

  14. #54
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    And certain people not actually in the government *cough* grover norquist *cough cough* kock brothers, yet they have a great influence on politics in the US.
    Exactly. If the government is powerful, and inclined enough, then the "will of the people" means jack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    Since Al Franken is and always has been an idiot, I'm not paying attention to anything he's connected with.
    Ben Stein (Economist, commentator, entertainer and notoriously right-wing near-genius) endorsed Franken as a smart guy fit for office.

  16. #56
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    Since Al Franken is and always has been an idiot, I'm not paying attention to anything he's connected with.
    Actually if you set aside your bias, you'd see he is actually more productive than most other senators.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    The military is a possibility, but I simply mean that if you think some of the wealthiest, most connected people in the world would have absolutely no power to stop something such as the drafting of a new Constitution, you're sorely mistaken. Political clout, leverage, money, and yes, covert and overt force are are realms of power that the government has a great deal of.
    If the United States government used any type of force to stop a lawful law change they would completely lose legitimacy in the eyes of the world. That's not going to happen.

    Since an amendment needs to be ratified by 3/4 of the states, no individual state's clout or money matters more than any other.

    The state-convention ratification method can be used as a way to circumvent corrupt state legislatures as well.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    NO MORE DAMN AMENDMENTS!

    If we can't get enough agreement to make it into a law, why the hell would an amendment do any better? Amendments are for big things, core values, more philosophical concepts than particular restrictions/freedoms.
    airy philosophy of what should be aside, amendments are for when the legislature wants to override a supreme court decision, exactly what is proposed here. it's policy not poetry, look at repealing prohibition.

  19. #59
    Warchief Kivimetsan's Avatar
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    Good!
    But too late... Obama won again with money, you guys had a candidate with 'true' money donated by his followers. Ron Paul is leaving congress. This is all to late so who cares. America is about to collapse, the Middle East and Europe is about to blow up, and China is gonna come and clean it all up afterwards.

  20. #60
    Fuck it, let them keep it. Maybe next time Mr. Rove can strive to set fire to an even billion.

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