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  1. #21
    Money spent on taking down cartels astronomical, money spent on the war on drugs astronomical... cartels get seed money from marijuana for cocaine. Doesn't make a lot of sense, you'd think that they'd have got wise to this after prohibition. Which ironically some politician's families got rich from (bush) to fund their political agendas, even more ironically bush senior was regan's right hand man to fight the war on drugs.

    We've seen places in europe have a significant decrease on hard drug use from legalizing less harmful drugs, tobacco does more damage than most of these less harmful drugs. Does no one take a step back and actually think about these things?

    I smoke pot and I haven't broke any other laws perhaps save for jwalking or something trivial like that, I hate feeling like a criminal or buying from people who might be. If it was legal I also wouldn't smoke it, i'd more likely ingest it from brownies / cookies or whatever. Which i'm sure would add some longevity to my life..

  2. #22

  3. #23
    Warchief Hastings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StaeleAilar View Post
    Same question could be asked, why are they fighting a losing war in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc etc

    The answer is they need something to fight and to incite fear into the population so that people turn out to vote in elections. A problem when voting isn't compuslory.
    They also need to make it sound like they're actually doing something with the money they take from tax payers, other than increasing politicians salaries >.>
    Elected officials, such as the President, VP, Senators and House Reps all have a set salary, that doesn't change during their current term, according to one of the amendments.
    The current salary for House and Senate members is 174,000 dollars a year. Which is perfectly fair considering the hellacious amount of work they do.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 10:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Cocaine and everything harder that is currently illegal.

    It does affect me. I pay taxes that pay for supporting these lowlives since addicts are unable to function in everyday life. In addition, widespread health problems have been proven from these drugs. You expect me to be perfectly content with letting my premiums rise even more simply so these losers can get their fix? Seriously?
    Who said anything about you paying taxes? It's the people being taxed that BUY the drugs, not you.
    "Then we have found, as it seems, that the many beliefs of the many about what's fair and about the other things roll around somewhere between not-being and being purely and simply." - Plato: Republic

  4. #24
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hastings95 View Post
    Who said anything about you paying taxes? It's the people being taxed that BUY the drugs, not you.
    Because my current income taxes (and those of every other federal income tax filer) support these addicts.

    Yeah, great idea. Let's give them food stamps, that way they can spend their money on blow.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

    Cycling Logs: 2012, 2013, 2014 (YTD-9.30).

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Cocaine and everything harder that is currently illegal.

    It does affect me. I pay taxes that pay for supporting these lowlives since addicts are unable to function in everyday life. In addition, widespread health problems have been proven from these drugs. You expect me to be perfectly content with letting my premiums rise even more simply so these losers can get their fix? Seriously?
    I'm not really an advocate for HARD drugs to be legal, but your focus seems to be on money. A lot of your tax dollars go to these people who are addicted to hard drugs having to imprison them without educating them over and over. Just food for thought..

  6. #26
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gohzerlock View Post
    I'm not really an advocate for HARD drugs to be legal, but your focus seems to be on money. A lot of your tax dollars go to these people who are addicted to hard drugs having to imprison them without educating them over and over. Just food for thought..
    Indeed, we need our prisons to be more like Russia's stereotypical gulags. None of this cable TV and internet bullshit.

    The only "drug" I will support legalization is MJ. Everything else is too fucking addictive and ruins lives.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

    Cycling Logs: 2012, 2013, 2014 (YTD-9.30).

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    You bring up a good point, I am familiar with Krokodil, it is a cheap way to make Desomorphine, a drug which can be made safely. The cheap street version is highly toxic and kills 100% of it's users in a year or two.

    When you legalize all drugs and put in safety controls you avoid things like Krokodil.

    As for LSD, I personally think every adult should try it once.
    You are totally crazy. Of all the drugs out there, the most dangerous one to do just one time and never again is LSD. I know from personal experience back in 1970. One use, at least two years of flashbacks, three years to get back to normal.

    The war on drugs needs to be stepped up and really enforced with eradication programs. I would love to see the marijuana plant become extinct and synthetic opiates produced cheaply so that the opium poppy could also be eradicated.

  8. #28
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    You are totally crazy. Of all the drugs out there, the most dangerous one to do just one time and never again is LSD. I know from personal experience back in 1970. One use, at least two years of flashbacks, three years to get back to normal.

    The war on drugs needs to be stepped up and really enforced with eradication programs. I would love to see the marijuana plant become extinct and synthetic opiates produced cheaply so that the opium poppy could also be eradicated.
    The flashbacks have been studied in numerous incidents and have been repeatedly and irrefutably disproved in all but one case where the observed test subjects all had schizophrenia.
    “…the whole trouble lies here. In words, words. Each one of us has within him a whole world of things, each man of us his own special world. And how can we ever come to an understanding if I put in the words I utter the sense and value of things as I see them; while you who listen to me must inevitably translate them according to the conception of things each one of you has within himself. We think we understand each other, but we never really do.”

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Because my current income taxes (and those of every other federal income tax filer) support these addicts.

    Yeah, great idea. Let's give them food stamps, that way they can spend their money on blow.
    If recreational drugs were legalised not only would less of your taxes be going to the war on drugs, additional revenue raised from the taxation of these drugs could be fed back in to treatment for addicts (again lowering the amount of your taxes needed for such a thing) and the legal supply would enable users to get their fix in a (relatively) safer form, meaning they would have less need for treatment (again lowering your personal contribution to such things).

  10. #30
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    If recreational drugs were legalised not only would less of your taxes be going to the war on drugs, additional revenue raised from the taxation of these drugs could be fed back in to treatment for addicts (again lowering the amount of your taxes needed for such a thing) and the legal supply would enable users to get their fix in a (relatively) safer form, meaning they would have less need for treatment (again lowering your personal contribution to such things).
    I'm sorry, but condoning the creation of new addicts by legalization is not acceptable.

    The funny thing is, you only see monetary costs in treatment. Try lost productivity, welfare, permanent disfigurement and disability, unwanted pregnancies and welfare for those children. I could go on.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

    Cycling Logs: 2012, 2013, 2014 (YTD-9.30).

  11. #31
    Illegal drugs just make criminals out of people that don't need to be criminals.

    I don't agree with that part, if they are doing something they know is illegal then they are criminals.

    Making all drugs legal after so many people have been fighting against them and so many law enforcement officers have died in the process is just saying that the law doesn't matter because if enough people break it we will just bend over and make it legal.

  12. #32
    Warchief Hastings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    I'm sorry, but condoning the creation of new addicts by legalization is not acceptable.
    But in return, you're not sending all those people to prison, which costs more than rehabilitation.

    See: Drug courts (http://www.nadcp.org/learn/how-well-.../facts-figures)

    FACT: Nationwide, for every $1.00 invested in Drug Court, taxpayers save as much as $3.36 in avoided criminal justice costs alone.

    FACT: When considering other cost offsets such as savings from reduced victimization and healthcare service utilization, studies have shown benefits range up to $27 for every $1 invested.

    FACT: Drug Courts produce cost savings ranging from $3,000 to $13,000 per client. These cost savings reflect reduced prison costs, reduced revolving-door arrests and trials, and reduced victimization.

    FACT: In 2007, for every Federal dollar invested in Drug Court, $9.00 was leveraged in state funding.

    For citations backing that up see: http://www.nadcp.org/sites/default/f...0Courts%20.pdf
    "Then we have found, as it seems, that the many beliefs of the many about what's fair and about the other things roll around somewhere between not-being and being purely and simply." - Plato: Republic

  13. #33
    Stood in the Fire Krayzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    The flashbacks have been studied in numerous incidents and have been repeatedly and irrefutably disproved in all but one case where the observed test subjects all had schizophrenia.
    They're only known to appear in cases of extreme stress and emotional events as well as schizophrenia. In fact, every drug can cause some form a "flashback" in the same setting. Usually they are nothing like people portray them. In terms of LSD, its usually just the euphoria or the visual distortions("wiggly lines").


  14. #34
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    And they deserve to stay illegal, and their general low-life abusers to rot in jail.

    No, I'm not talking about marijuana either.
    This sounds more like a personal issue than a practical, and logical argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    It does affect me. I pay taxes that pay for supporting these lowlives since addicts are unable to function in everyday life. In addition, widespread health problems have been proven from these drugs. You expect me to be perfectly content with letting my premiums rise even more simply so these losers can get their fix? Seriously?
    From what I see here, your personal issue is that you feel you are paying taxes to support people on drugs. No you don't, however you do pay taxes to keep people in jail who where caught selling drugs, stealing for drug money, and killing over drug profits. You pay taxes which support a failed drug war which has cost this nation billions a year since 1985.

    You should be the first to stand up and say stop this insanity, legalize this junk, tax the F@#$ out of it. Use that tax money for drug treatment and education. Because I don't want to pay for it anymore.

  15. #35
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hastings95 View Post
    But in return, you're not sending all those people to prison, which costs more than rehabilitation.
    Because many of our prisons are like fucking hotels with cable TV, computers, internet, etc.

    Cut them down to bread and water. Put their asses to work as well.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 10:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    This sounds more like a personal issue than a practical, and logical argument.
    It's about as practical and logical as people thinking legalization of hard drugs is in any way beneficial to society. Drug addicts are not productive members of society. They not only take down themselves, but their families as well.
    Last edited by Rukentuts; 2012-11-16 at 04:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

    Cycling Logs: 2012, 2013, 2014 (YTD-9.30).

  16. #36
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krayzz View Post
    They're only known to appear in cases of extreme stress and emotional events as well as schizophrenia. In fact, every drug can cause some form a "flashback" in the same setting. Usually they are nothing like people portray them. In terms of LSD, its usually just the euphoria or the visual distortions("wiggly lines").
    I'm aware, but overall it is not connected to LSD in itself. You can have such flashbacks of many areas of high emotional stress.... for example, PTSD. The flashbacks associated with it don't have anything to do with the itself drug outside of behavioral toxicity. So attributing such flashbacks to LSD really isn't applicable, as its essentially confusing correlation with causation.
    “…the whole trouble lies here. In words, words. Each one of us has within him a whole world of things, each man of us his own special world. And how can we ever come to an understanding if I put in the words I utter the sense and value of things as I see them; while you who listen to me must inevitably translate them according to the conception of things each one of you has within himself. We think we understand each other, but we never really do.”

  17. #37
    Warchief Hastings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Because many of our prisons are like fucking hotels with cable TV, computers, internet, etc.

    Cut them down to bread and water. Put their asses to work as well.
    Wait, so going to prison is like staying at a hotel? No, going to prison means being stripped of all your rights, being treated like your not human by the guards, and being surrounded by a fairly nasty populace (in terms of behaviour)

    I would say that's definitely not like staying in a hotel.

    And a lot of them do work already.

    Cutting them down to bread and water, I disagree, you must properly nourish someone or else it is inhumane. Regardless of who they are, if they are under your care, they should at least have some semblance of health.
    "Then we have found, as it seems, that the many beliefs of the many about what's fair and about the other things roll around somewhere between not-being and being purely and simply." - Plato: Republic

  18. #38
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hastings95 View Post
    Wait, so going to prison is like staying at a hotel? No, going to prison means being stripped of all your rights, being treated like your not human by the guards, and being surrounded by a fairly nasty populace (in terms of behaviour)

    I would say that's definitely not like staying in a hotel.
    Have you seen low security "prisons" lately? Because this post screams to me all you've seen is what you see on television programs.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

    Cycling Logs: 2012, 2013, 2014 (YTD-9.30).

  19. #39
    Stood in the Fire Krayzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Because many of our prisons are like fucking hotels with cable TV, computers, internet, etc.

    Cut them down to bread and water. Put their asses to work as well.
    You do understand that those are jails or for a prison that are for low threat/minimum crime convicts, and you'll only find a handful that are actually like that(excluding a white collar rich person jail/prison. But most times they get house arrest or get sent an actual hotel.) The internet, cable, and computers are for more than just the inmates. The staff and sheriffs use more of it then the people themselves.


  20. #40
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    I'm sorry, but condoning the creation of new addicts by legalization is not acceptable.
    Since this idea has been tested by Portugal which in 2000 had the highest percentage of drug abuse in all of Europe, so in 2002 they legalized all drugs taxed the crap out of them and used the money for addiction help and drug education. What was the result? Simple a sharp reduction of drug use.

    It doesn't create new addicts, it helps stop new addicts, and treats the ones you have.

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...rtugal-addicts

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