End the War on Drugs

[Rodin]

I'd be interested to see how the weakening of a drug cartel would affect countries like Mexico and Colombia.

Probably a lot more immigration to the north looking for legitimate jobs. But to be honest, the more conservative countries like many Muslim and Asian ones with harsher penalties will probably see a surge in cartel activity.

[Barnabas]

So I was thinking with all the global turmoil, Terrorism, Gaza, Separation of Texas, ect...

Why is America still waging a losing war on Drugs? There are better options.

So I made a petition and now I ask MMO-C what is your opinion on the War on Drugs?


Facts:
over 2.3 million people are in prison in the United States, This gives us the highest number and highest percentage of population in prison.
The majority of people in Prison are there on drug related offenses.
It costs $24k a year per prisoner. Which means $55.2Billion on prisoners.
Mexican cartels reap $18 billion to $39 billion from drug sales in the United States each year. All tax free, or a lost $1billion+ a year in lost taxes, not counting local sales taxes, just the tax on profits.





https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...olled/TktPFFhL

P.S. I mean all Controlled substances not just pot.

At the present state the economy is in if the "war" stopped all of a sudden then who would replace those decent paying jobs in the marketplace? If you can come up with a good answer then you'll be the first person I've seen to do it.

[obdigore]

At the present state the economy is in if the "war" stopped all of a sudden then who would replace those decent paying jobs in the marketplace? I'm yet for people against the "war" to have a good answer to this question.

Who is going to replace the drug dealers? Pharmecutical and Cigarette companies, mostly. I know Malboro has packaging ready to go for Malboro Greens.

[PizzaSHARK]

Who is going to replace the drug dealers? Pharmecutical and Cigarette companies, mostly. I know Malboro has packaging ready to go for Malboro Greens.

I think he's asking about the DEA and related agencies. I'd assume they'd just find employment through other law enforcement services... FBI or ATF, most likely.

[Hardstyler01]

As for LSD, I personally think every adult should try it once.

Not a good idea. I have personal experience with it and it has fucked up my life.

Every now and then when I'm out drinking, the LSD comes back and I do crazy things. It can take quite a few years before it will stop doing that completely.
I think it's called residual effects or something like that. I'm not making this up, one time I had a blackout after only drinking two beers and my friend told me I was having an argument with a wall. Not much later I apparently decided to go home because I was angry at everyone. If you know me, you would know that this is so not me, I only spend like 30 minutes at the bar when normally I like to stay till it closes.

Luckily these occurences seem to have gotten less frequent. But every now and then I wake up at night only to find out I'm tripping because I see random people walking around my room. And I'm sane enough to understand that it's just my mind playing tricks on me.

Anyway, like I said. Not a good idea to try it. Some are sensitive to it, like me.

[obdigore]

I think he's asking about the DEA and related agencies. I'd assume they'd just find employment through other law enforcement services... FBI or ATF, most likely.

DEA would still be needed to regulate and patrol the market. Verify that your Malboro Greens dont have Angel Dust on them, or that the quality of lsd meets the correct standard?

You would be getting a more efficient marketplace, a more standardized product, and faith in knowing that the Joint you are smoking doesn't have crystal meth in it. Regulation and Enforcement would still be needed, especially if we decriminalized but did not legalize a lot of the harder and very physically addicting stuff.

[PizzaSHARK]

Not a good idea. I have personal experience with it and it has fucked up my life.

Every now and then when I'm out drinking, the LSD comes back and I do crazy things. It can take quite a few years before it will stop doing that completely.
I think it's called residual effects or something like that. I'm not making this up, one time I had a blackout after only drinking two beers and my friend told me I was having an argument with a wall. Not much later I apparently decided to go home because I was angry at everyone. If you know me, you would know that this is so not me, I only spend like 30 minutes at the bar when normally I like to stay till it closes.

Luckily these occurences seem to have gotten less frequent. But every now and then I wake up at night only to find out I'm tripping because I see random people walking around my room. And I'm sane enough to understand that it's just my mind playing tricks on me.

Anyway, like I said. Not a good idea to try it. Some are sensitive to it, like me.

LSD has different effects for different people - makes sense, given it induces hallucinations and all kinds of stuff. Generally the first time someone tries it, it needs to be in a safe, calm, controlled environment... last thing you want is someone dropping a tab and having a bad trip on their first ride without calm, sober people there to help them deal with it and keep them safe.

My experiences with the stuff have always been positive.

[Celista]

It's not a battle worth fighting for. Legalize everything and tax the hell out of it imo, especially the growers/dealers.

[crakerjack]

The only defense anti-drug people use are rubbish, hypothetical situations... "Well if drugs were legal... blah blah blah arrogance blah blah blah." All drugs need to be legalized, because instead of bullshit hypothetical situations that are heavily biased and opinionated, I can point out the benefits. Drug cartels for starters wouldn't function in america because they wouldn't make money smuggling drugs. America would save countless millions of dollars by saving money on inmates who are serving time on non violent, drug related crimes. Not to mention the money that would be made from marijuana being sold to licensed adults.

Now if someone can argue those facts without bringing up "If drugs were legalized, my kids would do them and have more access to them." WHICH IS HIGHLY FALSE. Kids wouldn't have anymore access to drugs even if they legal, it's the exact opposite.

[Dch48]

The flashbacks have been studied in numerous incidents and have been repeatedly and irrefutably disproved in all but one case where the observed test subjects all had schizophrenia.

What a load of complete bull. It's well known that the flashbacks can and do happen, especially when the person has done something like smoke pot or use another drug. They can be triggered by other things though. There are numerous cases of suicide from the use or after effects of the use of LSD.

[obdigore]

What a load of complete bull. It's well known that the flashbacks can and do happen, especially when the person has done something like smoke pot or use another drug. They can be triggered by other things though. There are numerous cases of suicide from the use or after effects of the use of LSD.

Funny, I've tripped out a couple times, and I smoked nearly everyday for years after that, but never had any flashbacks. Arguing that 'everyone knows' proves nothing.

[ita]

I think every drug, including marihuana should remain illegal. A lot of people still using them is not an excuse. If they were made legal, many more that otherwise wouldnt would start using them. Just look at alcohol now.. everyone uses it. Luckily it's not that addictive. But tobacco is so much worse.

Now imagine if other stuff was legal.. It would become much more accessible and it's highly addictive while giving a much stronger effect than tobacco. A lot of teenagers will try it because they're either curious as it's laying around in their friends house or worse, pressured into trying by their friends. And even normal people when they're depressed and then years later end up dead because of the side effects and unable to kick the addiction.

It doesn't matter that people who really want it get it from black market anyway. If it would be legal, people who dont exactly want it or are just curious will get introduced to them as well as they're much more available then.

[obdigore]

I think every drug, including marihuana should remain illegal. A lot of people still using them is not an excuse. If they were made legal, many more that otherwise wouldnt would start using them. Just look at alcohol now.. everyone uses it. Luckily it's not that addictive. But tobacco is so much worse.

Now imagine if other stuff was legal.. It would become much more accessible and it's highly addictive while giving a much stronger effect than tobacco. A lot of teenagers will try it because they're either curious as it's laying around in their friends house or worse, pressured into trying by their friends. And even normal people when they're depressed and then years later end up dead because of the side effects and unable to kick the addiction.

It doesn't matter that people who really want it get it from black market anyway. If it would be legal, people who dont exactly want it or are just curious will get introduced to them as well as they're much more available then.

Ironically science and history disagree with you. Look at Portugese drug rates before and after they legalized everything.

[Sensei_Sin]

Ironically science and history disagree with you. Look at Portugese drug rates before and after they legalized everything.

It's not legalized, it's decriminalized. Huge difference.

You still can't sell those drugs in Portugal legally and you can still go to jail for having it on you, it just depends on how much for each type of drug.


I see this talk about how Portugal did this stuff but don't be fooled by it. Portugal invested heavily in combating drug trafficking, drug neighborhoods and in rehabilitation. The costs didn't just go away, they got shifted around for the most part. While the government doesn't spend that money fighting drugs, they'll spend it in rehab provided to these people.

[obdigore]

It's not legalized, it's decriminalized. Huge difference.

You still can't sell those drugs in Portugal legally and you can still go to jail for having it on you, it just depends on how much for each type of drug.


I see this talk about how Portugal did this stuff but don't be fooled by it. Portugal invested heavily in combating drug trafficking, drug neighborhoods and in rehabilitation. The costs didn't just go away, they got shifted around for the most part. While the government doesn't spend that money fighting drugs, they'll spend it in rehab provided to these people.

Indeed, but their drug usage rates are going down (as are new aids rates from sharing needles).

[ita]

Ironically science and history disagree with you. Look at Portugese drug rates before and after they legalized everything.

In Portugal it's still illegal. They just dont put people who use it in the prison any more. It's not like you can buy pot or worse drugs from drug stores there..

Not punishing the users is not a bad thing but they should still remain illegal and not sold and the dealers should be punished with full force of the law. Doesn't make it more available that way but tossing the junkies in the prison is also kind of pointless.

[obdigore]

In Portugal it's still illegal. They just dont put people who use it in the prison any more. It's not like you can buy pot or worse drugs from drug stores there..

Not punishing the users is not a bad thing but they should still remain illegal and not sold and the dealers should be punished with full force of the law. Doesn't make it more available that way but tossing the junkies in the prison is also kind of pointless.

Yes I used the wrong word, decriminalization. I already expounded my point that the US should decriminalize usage to get people help without the fear of prison, but keep dealers of illegal drugs under harsh penalties.

Edit -> I just don't see why the non physically addicting stuff is illegal. Alcoholism creates a physical addiction worse than weed, shrooms, and lsd, yet it is legal.

[PizzaSHARK]

I think every drug, including marihuana should remain illegal. A lot of people still using them is not an excuse. If they were made legal, many more that otherwise wouldnt would start using them. Just look at alcohol now.. everyone uses it. Luckily it's not that addictive. But tobacco is so much worse.

Now imagine if other stuff was legal.. It would become much more accessible and it's highly addictive while giving a much stronger effect than tobacco. A lot of teenagers will try it because they're either curious as it's laying around in their friends house or worse, pressured into trying by their friends. And even normal people when they're depressed and then years later end up dead because of the side effects and unable to kick the addiction.

It doesn't matter that people who really want it get it from black market anyway. If it would be legal, people who dont exactly want it or are just curious will get introduced to them as well as they're much more available then.

Thing is, ita, that legalizing it and controlling it a la alcohol wouldn't make much of a difference. Many people drink occasionally. Some people drink a little every day - a glass of wine with dinner, a nightcap before sleep, whatever. Many more people drink on special occasions and otherwise never touch the stuff. Some people don't drink at all.

Drugs wouldn't be any different. Alcohol is a highly addictive substance - maybe not quite on the level of, say, heroin, but it's addictive and has a physical component to that. And just like there are Alcoholics Anonymous groups and rehabilitation, so would there be for drugs. The thing is, not a whole lot would change from legalization after things even out, except you'd be taking away a major income (and therefore, power) source from criminal groups.

It's not legalized, it's decriminalized. Huge difference.

You still can't sell those drugs in Portugal legally and you can still go to jail for having it on you, it just depends on how much for each type of drug.


I see this talk about how Portugal did this stuff but don't be fooled by it. Portugal invested heavily in combating drug trafficking, drug neighborhoods and in rehabilitation. The costs didn't just go away, they got shifted around for the most part. While the government doesn't spend that money fighting drugs, they'll spend it in rehab provided to these people.

Which, ultimately, is a net gain for their country.

[Sensei_Sin]

Indeed, but their drug usage rates are going down (as are new aids rates from sharing needles).

Drug usages are going down because of multiple factors and the decriminalization is one out of many.

There are a lot less drugs being distributed internally, although Portugal is still a huge point of entry for drugs that are then sent to other countries, for example. Other factors include the rehab programs that I've mentioned before where they give "replacement drugs" and strike those people off as being drug users. The costs are still there and it really is making quite a dent on the country's "pocket", it's just added to the healthcare and social security bill instead now.

Which, ultimately, is a net gain for their country.

Huge gain. That's why Portugal is in such a great place right now.

[Elunaro]

easy solution though

make one drug legal than u remove the kick from illigal drug shipments cos they ain getting this adraline kick anymore yeah it takes a while to see some progress

but u got the irs checking htem out inning this massive amount of not payed tax money

prob u end up whit les kills / gang wars aswell

im from holland my self weed is legal over here and the drugs shipments back in the day where awfull aswell now for a caple years they made drugs legal weed and some other sh** ofc we still got some illigal drugs but just because this 1 drug is legal there is alot less drug dealers / cartels around every % helps right