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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by splifone View Post
    since firearms are invented already on Azeroth, why do the horde and alliance militaries train their warriors in melee combat when they can just train them in firearms.?
    Why do real life soldiers carry knives on them, and are trained to use them when they have a gun? Why are real life soldiers trained in unarmed hand to hand combat?
    I'm the minister of mistakes. I'm the shaman of sh*tstorms. If there was a f**k-up pope. I'd have a 3 foot hat!

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  2. #42
    seperation of gameplay and lore people. in lore hunters dont shoot every 3 seconds and theres no "haste and agility" on this armor and "intelligence and crit" on that other armor. Please keep it seperate.

    Despite the advances in tech, the tech isnt too reliable, not like swords atleast. the guns jam or run out of bullets, take long too load and the advanced fast firing type tends to explode or overheat. The ones that avoid this are bulky and unwieldy.

    plus armor has been enchanted and reinforced or theres creatures out there who are resistant to bullets.

    Also the groups of sword wielders can keep the enemy off the gun and bow wielders, who'd get slaughtered if the enemy gets in their face.
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2012-11-17 at 08:11 AM.

  3. #43
    Mechagnome xMexyragosX's Avatar
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    Well, obviously that's the case. If one thought hunters could actually shoot that fast, one would need to do a bit more research on their facts and logic.
    Like I said: Ranged is just my niche. I'm not saying I hate melee. I love it, actually.

  4. #44
    Role-player Khorianas's Avatar
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    Everything has basically been covered. But I'll try to summarize stuff that has been said and give commentary from my own PoV.

    First of all, Firing speed- In Lore, no character fires every 3 seconds.We have indeed seen machine guns in game but those are always mounted somewhere and no where near portable. The closest thing to fast firing I can remember is a revolver mechanic.(Very prominent on the Wolf Hunter rifle from Karazhan) and once the drum is empty loading takes you some time. crossbows also have a really low firing rate. Only quick shooter could be a archer, but given the bulkiness of his ammo he would run out faster than the other two most likely. Which brings me to the next topic : Ammo.

    In a lasting war, Ranged are always relying on supply. Here the gun wielders really get the short end of the stick. Gun ammunition is way more difficult to produce than any other ammo, expensive, and one time use only. In an ongoing war that is a definite liability. No Commander with a sense of tactics would rely on a branch of troops that is nearly completely defenseless once they are cut off from supply lines.

    Also I can't recall a clear statement on accuracy of the weapons. In game hunters usually have a 40m range, but that is covered really fast with any kind of mounted unit. Imagine a group or raptor or nightsabre riders approaching a group of ranged. Yeah that can end really badly for the ranged. Oh unless we protect them with some melee fighters.

    That is arguing with leaving all magic out of the picture. Bottom line is : No tactician would rely on one kind of troops even if they seem superior at first.

  5. #45
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    Since WoW melee weapons have so much magic in them that they are more akin to lightsabers than medieval stick of steel, since WoW armors are so much magically protected that they have more to do with portative forcefields than medieval iron armor and since WoW melee fighters have instant teleportation (rogues), nearly instant movement (warriors), magical grips (DKs) or magical blazes to hit distant foes, I guess comparing WoW swords vs WoW guns/bows usefulness to their real life counterparts' one … is just plain stupid.

  6. #46
    Mechagnome xMexyragosX's Avatar
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    Not ALL swords are pure magic... and lightsabers aren't magic; they're blades of super-heated plasma that - TECHNICALLY - could be created in real-life. Technically. Not saying it's anywhere near easy (if possible at all).
    Onto the point: Let's remember; we are talking about out-of-game RPing, not actual gameplay. Warriors don't have instant movement, rogues can't teleport, and obviously magi can light you up in flames from afar... that's what they were created to do, is it not? Death knights' magical grip seems more... realistic for them, even outside of the game. Does it not? I mean... warriors are just normal races of Azeroth, highly trained in melee combat. They aren't going to be able to dash around the battlefield instantly. Rogues rely on more... realistic means to stay stealthy, but they can't teleport. Death knights, when you think about it, are in a way a variant of battle-magi. Proficient in melee combat, trained in magic (albeit dark magic that they alone use). See where I'm getting at?
    As for comparing WoW weapons to real-life weapons... obviously there is going to be a large difference. This is a fantasy-fiction game, created purely from the minds of imaginative people. No one ever said it was supposed to be just like real-life. If you want a MMORPG that is close enough to RL where weapons can't even be enchanted with magic (speaking of fantasy, anyway), then I'm afraid you'll be looking for a long time, lol. That's the whole point of magic, isn't it? :3

  7. #47
    Just like anything else, magic does take resources. The likelihood that your entire army would wield enchanted weaponry and armor, for the majority of races, is highly unlikely. The only race that could have this possibility would probably be the sin'dorei, considering that magic is a gigantic cornerstone of their society and ever since they stole the knowledge of enchanting from the Amani, they have used it to great effect.

  8. #48
    I'd imagine it's for the same reason that the Star Wars series still uses lightsabers and other melee weapons, the technology (or magics in the case of WoW) can create very powerful ranged weapons but also creates many ways to protect against them, so the soldiers are forced to go back to using melee weapons to get around those defenses.

  9. #49
    Scarab Lord Viridiancity's Avatar
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    Lorewise, the best guns are gonna be a few highly expensive rifles that are gonna be cost ineffective to mass produce, or cheap shitty muskets that takes two minutes to reload after every shot.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    Because they haven't discovered Rifling yet. Also most WoW guns have hexagonal barrels and shoot cylindrical bullets and the ones that actually do have cylindrical barrels typically have an insanely large opening for the bullet size.

    Check every gun in the game and try to prove me wrong.
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=28581/
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=30724
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=89399
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=45870
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=39486
    Last edited by Boogums; 2012-11-18 at 05:51 AM.

  11. #51
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
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    I've been questiong the relevance of warriors lorewise myself. Why do they even exist? Other than for the sake of the game? They're completely mundane and don't seem to have any advantages over other classes. How is a warrior going to beat a paladin or deathknight one on one? The paladin will just burn him with holy fire or the deathknight will just shoot a death coil at him. They can pull the "fantasy is fantasy" argument all they want, but even fantasy needs cohesive logic.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 06:02 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by xMexyragosX View Post
    Not ALL swords are pure magic... and lightsabers aren't magic; they're blades of super-heated plasma that - TECHNICALLY - could be created in real-life. Technically. Not saying it's anywhere near easy (if possible at all).
    Onto the point: Let's remember; we are talking about out-of-game RPing, not actual gameplay. Warriors don't have instant movement, rogues can't teleport, and obviously magi can light you up in flames from afar... that's what they were created to do, is it not? Death knights' magical grip seems more... realistic for them, even outside of the game. Does it not? I mean... warriors are just normal races of Azeroth, highly trained in melee combat. They aren't going to be able to dash around the battlefield instantly. Rogues rely on more... realistic means to stay stealthy, but they can't teleport. Death knights, when you think about it, are in a way a variant of battle-magi. Proficient in melee combat, trained in magic (albeit dark magic that they alone use). See where I'm getting at?
    As for comparing WoW weapons to real-life weapons... obviously there is going to be a large difference. This is a fantasy-fiction game, created purely from the minds of imaginative people. No one ever said it was supposed to be just like real-life. If you want a MMORPG that is close enough to RL where weapons can't even be enchanted with magic (speaking of fantasy, anyway), then I'm afraid you'll be looking for a long time, lol. That's the whole point of magic, isn't it? :3
    It isn't too far fetched to assume that rogue have trained themselves in a bit of shadow magic to aid their shadow steps. Especially now with their new shadow blades ability.

  12. #52
    Scarab Lord Viridiancity's Avatar
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    Barrel Blade, Amber Sprayer and Projectile Emitter are based on technology that neither player faction has access to.

    Hemet's has a fluted muzzle. It's a musket.

    Wolfslayer is a notable exception. But you have to realize, these aren't weapons that are mass producable lorewise.

  13. #53
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
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    I guess you could take into account spellbreakers, which were basically designed to spit on casters. But even spellbreakers were magic themselves.

  14. #54
    Role-player Nonfictionless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roggles View Post
    I've been questiong the relevance of warriors lorewise myself. Why do they even exist? Other than for the sake of the game? They're completely mundane and don't seem to have any advantages over other classes. How is a warrior going to beat a paladin or deathknight one on one? The paladin will just burn him with holy fire or the deathknight will just shoot a death coil at him. They can pull the "fantasy is fantasy" argument all they want, but even fantasy needs cohesive logic.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 06:02 AM ----------

    It isn't too far fetched to assume that rogue have trained themselves in a bit of shadow magic to aid their shadow steps. Especially now with their new shadow blades ability.
    First off if we are talking lorewise here. Magic really isn't the end all of everything. Holy magic isn't as effective against living people. Hence the Paladin's main focus has always been fighting the Scourge and Demons. Next you can't think of magic as always hitting like in-game mechanics. I not saying a 1v1 fight would be easy but for these "spell warriors" their magic only gives them a slight advantage.

    And the naming of rogue abilities isn't Shadow magic. If anything it would be closer to illusion magic

  15. #55
    Mechagnome xMexyragosX's Avatar
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    Anyone who argues that warriors have no use anymore are wrong. As stated before, they have many advantages that ranged don't have, just as ranged have many advantages warriors don't. It's an even fight, because both styles of combat have their strengths, and their weaknesses. Learning off of those weaknesses is what will give you the upper hand in such a case.
    I guess, for the most part that it is more based on your perspective than another's.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Roggles View Post
    I've been questiong the relevance of warriors lorewise myself. Why do they even exist? Other than for the sake of the game? They're completely mundane and don't seem to have any advantages over other classes. How is a warrior going to beat a paladin or deathknight one on one? The paladin will just burn him with holy fire or the deathknight will just shoot a death coil at him. They can pull the "fantasy is fantasy" argument all they want, but even fantasy needs cohesive logic.
    Because not everyone has magical aptitude. Making more Death Knights is pretty objectionable for a number of reasons, and not everyone has the aptitude or the dedication to be a holy warrior. And there are going to be some people who, like honey badger, don't give a s*** and will pick up a hunk of steel and wade into the fray anyways - and get the job done.

    There's actually a more convincing argument that Warriors know a bit of magic given that every one of them can call down a bolt of lightning that makes people bleed profusely. :-P Never did like that talent, but it's baseline now, so oh well. I actually preferred it for the most part when warriors were more glaringly non-magical than any other class.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooherder View Post
    Becouse its a fantasy world where a bullet does not equel instant death.
    Neither did it in real life for most of it's existence. That only happened in the last two centuries or so.

  18. #58
    with all this stuff the gnomes and goblins have invented, I'm pretty sure they have the capability of producing automatic rifles. If histories told us anything, it's that war drives technological innovations. Look at goblin society on kezan, they have freakin cars and industrialized cities and yet they're still using melee warriors? I mean i can understand certain weaknesses marksmen might have on the battle feild against battle mages and other mana users, but with all the magic in the world I'm sure they can mix magic and science together to create better guns.
    Last edited by splifone; 2012-11-22 at 05:00 AM.

  19. #59
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camaris View Post
    Because not everyone has magical aptitude. Making more Death Knights is pretty objectionable for a number of reasons, and not everyone has the aptitude or the dedication to be a holy warrior. And there are going to be some people who, like honey badger, don't give a s*** and will pick up a hunk of steel and wade into the fray anyways - and get the job done.

    There's actually a more convincing argument that Warriors know a bit of magic given that every one of them can call down a bolt of lightning that makes people bleed profusely. :-P Never did like that talent, but it's baseline now, so oh well. I actually preferred it for the most part when warriors were more glaringly non-magical than any other class.
    Well avatar and storm bolt were mountain king abilities in warcraft, and from what I remember to get avatar ability they had to commune with the earth. They also explain that mountain kings did use some magic, which is why they have stormbolt. So I guess dwarves taught the other races how to use those powers, and maybe the horde studied alliance warriors on the battlefield and emulated them. That would be a decent non official explanation. "They conjure magic hammers and axes to hurl at their targets, stunning and slowing them so they can get close enough to use their real weapons. They transform themselves into silver-sheened creatures of living stone, shrugging off all attacks and hacking through flesh and bone with frightening ease." This is from Wowpedia.
    Last edited by Loaf Lord; 2012-11-22 at 05:07 AM.

  20. #60
    people are not bothering to read the prev posts and are repeating things, that have been said or already countered.

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