Thread: CRZ is stupid

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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Fexus View Post
    100% wrong.

    "Blizzard considers most conduct to be part of the Game, and not harassment, so player-killing the enemies of your race and/or alliance, including gravestone and/or corpse camping, is considered a part of the Game."

    Blizzard Code of Conduct section C.
    Actually, after a few hours, it does become griefing, even on a PvP server.

    There is the "If there is a PvP solution, it's not griefing" rule, but that is thrown out the window after a few hours of camping. It's the same reason people get banned constantly for camping questgivers on a PvP server.

    Purposely griefing people for hours on end is a violation of their right to play the game.

  2. #402
    High Overlord terminaltrip421's Avatar
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    my account was cancelled for good 10/25/12 (had to wait out annual pass, actually haven't played since september) CRZ was reason #2 ...the change in gold looted from mobs in 1-60 and 85-90 were the reason. quit the game. they're corporate thinking fucks. i gave them years of my life only to come to the conclusion that they really want to fuck me out of my money without my having a chance to enjoy it.
    <--all 90 now.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Myzou View Post
    Actually, after a few hours, it does become griefing, even on a PvP server.

    There is the "If there is a PvP solution, it's not griefing" rule, but that is thrown out the window after a few hours of camping. It's the same reason people get banned constantly for camping questgivers on a PvP server.

    Purposely griefing people for hours on end is a violation of their right to play the game.
    Yet I've seen examples of a whole guild camping a single person in for example Stranglethorn Vale (aka gankelthorn) for hours/days, and all Blizzard did after the person contacting them about it was move him to a new location so he at least got away from being ganked.

    "violation for their right to play the game"? Bullshit, they have full right to play no matter if they are being ganked for years, they deliberately put themselves in a position to be ganked, it's really not that hard to escape.

  4. #404
    Stood in the Fire Sporky0's Avatar
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    Most people in this thread defending CRZ have excessively selective hearing. Taking things people have said (complained) about CRZ and completely ignoring the point they were trying to make to turn it back around on them.
    I haven't seen a single person in this thread even remotely understand what the other side (those who dislike CRZ) is talking about.

    Another thing that I dislike about CRZ. Everything in the zone lags. I feel my questing experience is diminished due to this single factor, disregarding the stupid "PvP" going on. certain things that happen during quests don't happen anywhere near as fast as they did on my single server. Things dropped by mobs that must be separately looted take longer to load. There are other things that are that little bit slower than usual as well that just aggravate me because the quality of the questing has gone down thanks to CRZ.

    CRZ isn't necessarily a bad idea. It has just been executed poorly, as usual.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Sporky0 View Post
    Most people in this thread defending CRZ have excessively selective hearing. Taking things people have said (complained) about CRZ and completely ignoring the point they were trying to make to turn it back around on them.
    I haven't seen a single person in this thread even remotely understand what the other side (those who dislike CRZ) is talking about.

    Another thing that I dislike about CRZ. Everything in the zone lags. I feel my questing experience is diminished due to this single factor, disregarding the stupid "PvP" going on. certain things that happen during quests don't happen anywhere near as fast as they did on my single server. Things dropped by mobs that must be separately looted take longer to load. There are other things that are that little bit slower than usual as well that just aggravate me because the quality of the questing has gone down thanks to CRZ.

    CRZ isn't necessarily a bad idea. It has just been executed poorly, as usual.
    I love how you claim people completely miss a certain point, then proceed on not bringing it up, it's fantastic.

    As for higher delay/lag in cross realm zones, I haven't noticed any of that. Leveled an alt rogue from 1-50 a couple of days ago with no problems at all. I also didn't encounter a single lvl 90 who tried to gank me, and I did all those levels outside of Battlegrounds and Dungeons.

  6. #406
    Epic! Demetrion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fexus View Post
    100% wrong.

    "Blizzard considers most conduct to be part of the Game, and not harassment, so player-killing the enemies of your race and/or alliance, including gravestone and/or corpse camping, is considered a part of the Game."

    Blizzard Code of Conduct section C.
    I like you.

    And OP deal with it.

  7. #407
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Why are all these people saying "you picked a pvp server!" as a defence of CRZ?

    CRZ inherently destroys server based gameplay. In effect there is no server any more.

    All the shit bits from world pvp are present - ganking lowbies, roving/flying gangbangers annihilating the equal level by simply over manning them, loss of ability to mine, fish or herb.

    And all the good bits from world pvp are absent - sense of community, rivalry, the ability to get revenge, forming fast friendships in the face of assholery.

    Even if you are to disregard this completely, CRZ is a massive change to the way the game world works and if you can't see why long term players of the game don't think they ever signed up to this sort of game world you must have rocks in your head. World pvp has been a zombie for years. Most zones have been empty for years. A lot of players started on pvp servers pre flying mounts. The practice and expectation for players for years has been minimal world pvp, especially on alts and this has changed overnight.

    People have every right to be annoyed at such sweeping changes to their gameplay. I fully expect that most if not all of those who are saying in the face of change to pvp servers "suck it up" have whined on these very forums about pve changes. Well, guess what - you can say that to. When your raid seizes get changed or difficulty alters t let the bads in you can be simply dismissed with a phrase - "pve realm, deal with it." "Says right there in the terms of service blizzard can change anything they like."

    Meh.
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  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Why are all these people saying "you picked a pvp server!" as a defence of CRZ?

    CRZ inherently destroys server based gameplay. In effect there is no server any more.

    All the shit bits from world pvp are present - ganking lowbies, roving/flying gangbangers annihilating the equal level by simply over manning them, loss of ability to mine, fish or herb.

    And all the good bits from world pvp are absent - sense of community, rivalry, the ability to get revenge, forming fast friendships in the face of assholery.

    Even if you are to disregard this completely, CRZ is a massive change to the way the game world works and if you can't see why long term players of the game don't think they ever signed up to this sort of game world you must have rocks in your head. World pvp has been a zombie for years. Most zones have been empty for years. A lot of players started on pvp servers pre flying mounts. The practice and expectation for players for years has been minimal world pvp, especially on alts and this has changed overnight.

    People have every right to be annoyed at such sweeping changes to their gameplay. I fully expect that most if not all of those who are saying in the face of change to pvp servers "suck it up" have whined on these very forums about pve changes. Well, guess what - you can say that to. When your raid seizes get changed or difficulty alters t let the bads in you can be simply dismissed with a phrase - "pve realm, deal with it." "Says right there in the terms of service blizzard can change anything they like."

    Meh.
    I'm sorry but I still don't even remotely agree with you. A PvP server is a PvP server, and even if it was completely dead when a person chose it they must have considered the differences between a PvE server and a PvP server and made an active choice of the risk of being ganked. Just because that risk was next to non-existent then, does not mean it always would be, and if you now find yourself in the unfortunate situation of having chosen the wrong kind of server you really have no other choice but to suck it up or switch, that's simply how it is and no amount of moaning or bitching will change that.

    Your argument about people having complained about pve servers with "it's a pve server, deal with it", doesn't make any sense at all because there is no such difference between the servers types themselves.

    PvE servers are for those who wish to be able to level in peace and quiet without the risk of being ganked, at all, ever.

    PvP servers are for those who enjoy the thrill of potentially being jumped, or jumping an opposing faction player at any time while leveling.

    You choose yourself which of these you prefer.

  9. #409
    Herald of the Titans Tuvok's Avatar
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    If you don't like fighting other players, or getting killed by them, you know what you can do. At the end of the day that's what it comes down to. Also, you should try ganking yourself, it's quite fun and very amusing.
    "The truth, my goal."

  10. #410
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I'm sorry but I still don't even remotely agree with you. A PvP server is a PvP server, and even if it was completely dead when a person chose it they must have considered the differences between a PvE server and a PvP server and made an active choice of the risk of being ganked.
    Not possible. If it's your first time choosing a server on wow, you have no idea how pvp actually works. If you were to ask someone who already prior to the week before mop went live they would tell you "maybe you'll get killed whilst levelling once or twice, there used to be some pockets of it in vanilla but world pvp is long dead."

    Not only that but as I already said - there are no servers any more. Another question you might have asked is "how many people per server?" or "what's the faction balance like?" And those choices now mean nothing.
    Just because that risk was next to non-existent then, does not mean it always would be, and if you now find yourself in the unfortunate situation of having chosen the wrong kind of server you really have no other choice but to suck it up or switch, that's simply how it is and no amount of moaning or bitching will change that.
    So you agree people have every right to be annoyed? But you think that people should just pay up to get away?
    Your argument about people having complained about pve servers with "it's a pve server, deal with it", doesn't make any sense at all because there is no such difference between the servers types themselves.
    Sure there is - it says right there in the terms of service that blizzard can change anything they like. That's what you signed up to. So never ever complain about anything in wow again. According to your already stated logic, if you don't like it, leave. You have no right to complain yourself if you want to withdraw that right from others.
    PvE servers are for those who wish to be able to level in peace and quiet without the risk of being ganked, at all, ever.
    No, pve servers are for those people who want to turn world pvp on or off when it suits them.
    PvP servers are for those who enjoy the thrill of potentially being jumped, or jumping an opposing faction player at any time while leveling.

    You choose yourself which of these you prefer.
    Potentially has turned into definitely.
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  11. #411
    Deal with it, or would you guys prefer u could buy a sorta like stop XP buff wich makes u ONLY see-able until u buy it off!... DAT WOULD BE KEWL.
    If he corpse camps, get some friends to help, log out for 10-15 mins, ask someone on irl id to invite you to their server, log your main and kick his ass...
    And yeah i can actually understand why that rogue is ganking low lvl's... Rogues iz weak atm so hes just entertaining himself the only way he can!

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrophagist View Post
    The world should be filled. Just not with bands of 90s camping.
    aaaaand BAM someone else hit the nail on the head. I love the whole cross realm thing I love world pvp, I don't even think low levels getting ganked a few times is a big issue, BUT and it's a big but there is massive difference between those things and a level 90 player(s) camping lower levels that give no honor and can't possibly get away or fight back. People that think camping a lower level for 2 hours or more is pvp are sadly mistaken.

    We have a lot of players from ally side sylvanas camp low level areas. I can't speak for others but when it happens to one of our guildies someone goes along to help and usually gets whispered dogs abuse from the ganker or the ganker just leaves At the start of the CRZ patch we had 40 of them camping the dark portal spawn point killing level 58s and 60s "pro players" there. In the end though the horde got together 2 raid groups of level cap players and yea they got ownd hard.

    Again the issue isn't CRZ or world pvp it's sick twisted morons that usually have absolutely no pvp skill camping low levels that can't fight back. Imo Blizzard should give you a shield preventing all damage and preventing you dealing any damage for about 30 seconds to 1 minute IF you've died in the same place 10 times by the same player(s) this would allow lowbies to HS. Then you can just quest else where until the morons move on.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Not possible. If it's your first time choosing a server on wow, you have no idea how pvp actually works. If you were to ask someone who already prior to the week before mop went live they would tell you "maybe you'll get killed whilst levelling once or twice, there used to be some pockets of it in vanilla but world pvp is long dead."

    Not only that but as I already said - there are no servers any more. Another question you might have asked is "how many people per server?" or "what's the faction balance like?" And those choices now mean nothing.
    If it's your first time playing and you are that new, you likely haven't gotten that far in leveling and can easily just start leveling on a new server. Furthermore, you can read the differences between PvE and PvP servers when choosing them, it's their own fault for not reading up on it fully before making their decision.

    Yes there are servers! CRZ only merges the same kind of servers, PvP with PvP, PvE with PvE, RP with RP, RP-PvP with RP-PvP. Sure you can invite someone over to your realm, but they still live up to the rules of that server, so even if you're on a PvE realm and invite over someone from a PvP realm he will still not be able to attack people on that realm.


    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    So you agree people have every right to be annoyed? But you think that people should just pay up to get away?
    Right and right, it's not like you can take away anyone's right to be annoyed, you can be annoyed by the way your neighbor is behaving but you can't necessarily do anything about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Sure there is - it says right there in the terms of service that blizzard can change anything they like. That's what you signed up to. So never ever complain about anything in wow again. According to your already stated logic, if you don't like it, leave. You have no right to complain yourself if you want to withdraw that right from others.
    Yes Blizzard can change anything they like, but as I said there are no dungeon/raid differences between PvE and PvP realms. The differences between the actual realm types is weather or not you can attack someone in the world or not, and always has been. Blizzard did not change this, they only increased the likelihood for you to encounter someone. And whilst sure Blizzard can make any change they want, they even have the full right to ban your account for no reason at all, no really they do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    No, pve servers are for those people who want to turn world pvp on or off when it suits them.
    Actually it isn't, it's for those who wish to be able to level without interference from other players, always has been. Sure, you can write /pvp, but that won't make you able to attack others unless they do so as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Potentially has turned into definitely.
    It really hasn't though. If it was definitely, you would be guaranteed to be ganked on a PvP server (and really, if you chose a PvP server and you all of a sudden find yourself in a moment of PvP, why the hell are you complaining?), but since I was able to level over 50 levels on my rogue without encountering a single high level at all it is definitely not guaranteed, only a lot more likely.
    Last edited by Chaozu; 2012-11-17 at 11:46 AM. Reason: typo

  14. #414
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    If it's your first time playing and you are that new, you likely haven't gotten that far in leveling and can easily just start leveling on a new server. Furthermore, you can read the differences between PvE and PvP servers when choosing them, it's their own fault for not reading up on it fully before making their decision.
    But you just said that people know what they signed up to when they made their characters - even if it was pre mop.

    Can you pick one and stick to it? You can't have both.
    Yes there are servers! CRZ only merges the same kind of servers, PvP with PvP, PvE with PvE, RP with RP, RP-PvP with RP-PvP. Sure you can invite someone over to your realm, but they still live up to the rules of that server, so even if you're on a PvE realm and invite over someone from a PvP realm he will still not be able to attack people on that realm.
    So the servers are merged but there are still servers? Wtf is this? Again, pick one.

    Right and right, it's not like you can take away anyone's right to be annoyed, you can be annoyed by the way your neighbor is behaving but you can't necessarily do anything about it.
    That's not true - almost everywhere there are limits on noise levels, smells, behaviour etc etc that are backed up by local or national laws.


    Yes Blizzard can change anything they like, but as I said there are no dungeon/raid differences between PvE and PvP realms. The differences between the actual realm types is weather or not you can attack someone in the world or not, and always has been. Blizzard did not change this, they only increased the likelihood for you to encounter someone. And whilst sure Blizzard can make any change they want, they even have the full right to ban your account for no reason at all, no really they do.
    Yes, so you'll never complain about anything in pve ever again, will you?


    Actually it isn't, it's for those who wish to be able to level without interference from other players, always has been. Sure, you can write /pvp, but that won't make you able to attack others unless they do so as well.
    So a pve realm isn't for optional pvp, it's for optional pvp? Hows about just conceding a point when you have lost, rather than restating my correct position as though it was your own?

    It really hasn't though. If it was definitely, you would be guaranteed to be ganked on a PvP server (and really, if you chose a PvP server and you all of a sudden find yourself in a moment of PvP, why the hell are you complaining?), but since I was able to level over 50 levels on my rogue without encountering a single high level at all it is definitely not guaranteed, only a lot more likely.
    I have no idea how you managed to level a stealth class without getting attacked. No, really.
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  15. #415
    CRZ isnt the problem.

    The problem is all the AssHats that think corpse camping people 10-20 levels lower for hours on end is actually fun, even though they achieve NOTHING from it apart from upsetting people. I know there's a large amount of rp in fighting for your own faction, but stopping some lowbie questing for an hour is just being a dick, wether they're the opposing faction or not.

    +For the 10 people or so on the roofs permanantly in Area52, attacking people on the ground so they can't fly up to fight back, the fact that this is a more efficient way for them to farm honor than actually going to battlegrounds (there can't be THAT many 90s in Area 52 surely?) says a lot about their PVP "Skills".

    Blizzard SHOULD do something about it. If eventually they can scale level as well as gear, if you gank someone you should get a buff like
    "Curse of the Weak : Your level and Gear lvl are reduced to the level of the person you've just killed. You are unable to use a flying mount for 5 minutes until the buff wears off"
    and then see how many people enjoy "world PVP".

  16. #416
    Warchief theWocky's Avatar
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    A priest / warrior combo killed me twice when I was leveling my druid in tanaris back in TBC - back then, it was a hell of graveyard run. I brought my lvl 60 rogue and I went into stealth and I found them questing in tanaris - pulling mobs, aoe'ing them down with the priest healing. I stalked them for twelve hours straight in stealth, killing the healer as the tank had multiple mobs on him. I lost track of how many times I killed them like this. Whenever they logged off, I left my other wow account active on another computer to track when and where they came on-line again. A bit OCD on vengeance, yes I know.

    I always made sure that they tagged at least one mob so that they had to pay repair bills.

    Nothing happened - this was not considered "griefing"
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  17. #417
    The Patient
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    Bloody wanker you are.

    Infracted - ML
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2012-11-17 at 08:39 PM.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    But you just said that people know what they signed up to when they made their characters - even if it was pre mop.

    Can you pick one and stick to it? You can't have both.
    Of course you can pick one and stick to it, I really don't understand what you are even trying to get at. Either you want the risk of being ganked and choose a PvP server, or you don't and then choose a PvE server. What's so hard about that?


    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    So the servers are merged but there are still servers? Wtf is this? Again, pick one.
    Server types aren't merged! Which is entirely the point! The fact that servers merge in general is no issue at all, the question at hand is if you picked a PvP server or not, not which server you chose.


    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    That's not true - almost everywhere there are limits on noise levels, smells, behaviour etc etc that are backed up by local or national laws.
    Yes there are limits to how far they can go but they can still annoy you even without breaking those rules/laws, thus annoying you without you able to do anything about it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Yes, so you'll never complain about anything in pve ever again, will you?
    This doesn't make any sense at all and has nothing to do with the issue at hand. CRZ is a change made that only increased the risk of you being ganked, and you can only be ganked on a PvP server. If Blizzard makes a change that only affects one server and I can avoid it by going to the other one then yes I promise I won't complain about it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    So a pve realm isn't for optional pvp, it's for optional pvp? Hows about just conceding a point when you have lost, rather than restating my correct position as though it was your own?
    You claim that PvE servers are for those who on occasion wants to PvP in the world, the problem here is that even if they want to they can't force their opponent into it, thus whilst it's an option in a sense, it takes both parties to want to do it. Your claim was also that PvE servers were intended for those, I claimed otherwise that it's for those who wish to be able to level in peace and quiet, which you can't even counterclaim. So I'm not conceding anything, if anything it's you who should concede "that point".


    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    I have no idea how you managed to level a stealth class without getting attacked. No, really.
    Yes because stealth on a low level works so well against a lvl 90, it's not like they could see me 100 meters away. Also as I said, I didn't even see any lvl 90 on my way to 60. I encountered other same level players which I killed, but no high leveled.
    Last edited by Chaozu; 2012-11-17 at 12:26 PM. Reason: typo

  19. #419
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Why are all these people saying "you picked a pvp server!" as a defence of CRZ?
    Because they want to defend community killing behavior (what's left of it in CRZ), and defend a playstyle that they prefer at the expense of others.

    Antisocial to the core.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
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  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Because they want to defend community killing behavior (what's left of it in CRZ), and defend a playstyle that they prefer at the expense of others.

    Antisocial to the core.
    Yeah "community killing behavior"... Because the Alliance and the Horde are part of the same community, and there was so much of the community left when dungeon finder was introduced and you stopped playing with other people from the same server unless you joined as a guild. (For the record I'm not bashing LFD nor starting any argument about weather or not it was a good implementation, just using it as a point of furthering decreasing the sense of a community within the server.)

    Fighting against other people out in the world is the core difference between a PvP and a PvE server, people using their high levels to kill low levels is hardly something new.

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