CRZ is stupid

[Fenixdown]

I disagree. You are getting exactly what you signed up for, because there are still server types. End of story.

No, you are actually still misunderstanding what he is saying. He's not saying anything about the server type. He is saying something about the server itself. It's the exact same message, in fact, that I have said in this very same thread.

Yes, I am on a PvP server. Yes, as such, I signed up for world PvP...on MY server. Not a neutral server. Not someone else's server. MY server, Skullcrusher US. That's what I signed up for.

Now, instead, I've signed up for PvP with nine other servers that I don't play on, have no connection to, and do not care to have either with. What Injun is saying, and he is right (and you should just stop arguing with him about it) is that CRZ was the final nail in the coffin of something that players like me, who are old school, are complaining about most in the case of CRZ : server community. It does not exist. It has nothing to do with PvP or PvE. It has everything to do with connection to the other players on your server.

Remember the days of "KoS" lists? Remeber the times that guilds on your server would set up with guilds of the opposite faction through the server forums places for everyone to go have a ball in some world PvP? Remember when a guild would go raid a faction city, and if they managed to kill the faction leader there everyone got up and said "Okay, they're heading to X now...let's go!"? That doesn't exist anymore. Now, when you get ganked outside of Pandaria, it's by some nobody on some nobody server who's only doing what he's doing because he knows that the odds of another server coming to oppose him are much less likely than his own server coming to oppose him. It isn't being done to start epic all-out brawls between rival guilds. It's not being done to make better PvP happen. It's being done because the guy can now get away with it even easier. It's just that simple.

The solution to that problem (on top of the several others being caused by CRZ, which are a long list), is just straight up removing it. It's a BAD feature. Massive Multiplayer doesn't need to mean Massive Strangers You Will Never See Again in every aspect of the game. World PvP survived on the server connection. Now even that's gone. World PvP still doesn't exist. All that got increased was world lowbie camping with no retaliation.

Of which, sorry if you disagree, that isn't world PvP. That's just lame and boring.

[Eroginous]

what the OP described isn't PvP. Report the player if they are spawn camping you for hours. It's against the ToS

Actually it's not against the ToS. If you were to open a ticket after being spawn camped for two hours, the GM would tell you this:

1. We are unable to intervene in these situations as there exists adequate pvp solutions to this problem.

2. We strongly urge players to think carefully before choosing which server type to play on.

Pvp servers are there so that players can experience an increased risk for player versus player combat at anytime out in the world. Ganking someone over and over for two hours is not only pvp, but there are things a player can do to avoid/remedy that situation.

[Deleted]

I play on a PVP server, so I'm used to getting ganked and ganking others. However, after CRZ zones were introduced, all that's happening is that I and others are getting respawn camped by a bunch of level 90 shitheads.

I'm level 77 right now. I could have been 90 already. Camped from level 20 to level 77...

I have spent the last 2 hours being spawn camped. I literally cannot respawn without being one shot by this cunt rogue who has been here for fucking two hours.

Seriously, I can't blame the kids who are botting their way to 90. Don't blame them at all. This isn't fun.

happening to me aswell right now, its fucking ridicolous...

[Deleted]

But all of these complaints boil down to "PvP happened on a PvP server."

No, they are all population-related. Only point #4 is PvP related (but in addition to population-related).

[...]

1. herbs/mineral spawn nodes may be the same, but the population is not. blizz should have either phased herbs to realms or instead buffed the spawn rate.
2. same thing with rares
3. why exactly did i want to see more people competing against me for quest mobs? is that normal to enjoy suffering?
4. ganking.. i dont call world pvp lvl 23 vs 90.. id call that pathetic.. even for PVE zones i dont think people actually enjoy seeing the opposite faction taking their mobs

[...]

1) Is an issue even on a PvE realm. Is an issue even if your realm's faction is dominant. That is because it is population-related.
2) Is an issue even on a PvE realm. Is an issue even if your realm's faction is dominant. That is because it is population-related.
3) Is an issue even on a PvE realm. Is an issue even if your realm's faction is dominant. That is because it is population-related.
4) Is an issue even if your realm's faction is dominant (but more so if 1:1 or other faction is dominant). It is also population-related.

Is it really so hard to fathom? If there's 100 level 90s in a zone, the chance you as lvling player are getting ganked is higher than when there's 10 level 90s in a zone. The chance you can catch a rare is higher if there are less people in that zone running Npcscan. The chance you are competing with others on herbs and ore is lower if there are less people in the zone. It ain't rocket science...

The point here is that even PvE realms are suffering from 3 out of 4 of these CRZ issues. For PvP realms, its the 4th in addition to the first 3, and the time they rolled on the PvP realm they were on all these CRZ were far less populated. You can't blame a person for making a choice, settling their living somewhere, and then suddenly the neighborhood is changed by the local county and then say: "well it was your choice to live there." That choice never took into account the change. Could they've seen it coming? Well I don't know about you but I'm not a clairvoyant.

[SamR]

What server are you on and what ore/herb are you having a hard time gathering?

[Deleted]

i see all these bad analogies...

a better one would be:
You're a british officer during ww2 and are assigned to protect a french city - you see a german soldier walk by you looting a house - you notice he is just a lowly private, only has a pistol... you determine he isn't a threat and just leave him cause you wont gain honor by killing him.... does that make sense? its a war, you're british soldier, you see a german soldier, you shoot.

More like an 8 year old kid you're facing, who can hurt you with a water pistol (lightning bolt), or tickle your feet with a feather (purge), maybe give you a punch (flame shock + lava burst) if he manages to even hit you with it (hit cap etc). A level 55 cannot do anything to a level 90. A level 90 can just 1shot that player with white damage or a silly DoT costing 1 GCD. But if you let the level 55 level up to 90 then he becomes that adult who's in the army. Until then, he's harmless, like a child. In war, it is considered dishonorable to kill women (= PvE players ) and children (= low levels). Actually, it isn't considered dishonorable. If it happens en masse it is called genocide.

[melodramocracy]

incessant cheerleading

Do you get paid per post, or per syllable?

[Irony]

what the OP described isn't PvP. Report the player if they are spawn camping you for hours. It's against the ToS

No it's not. Though Blizzard doesn't endorse it, they're not against. You rolled on a PVP server, that was a risk you were taking.

C. Rules Related to Game Play. Game play is what World of Warcraft is all about, and Blizzard strictly enforces the rules that govern game play. Blizzard considers most conduct to be part of the Game, and not harassment, so player-killing the enemies of your race and/or alliance, including gravestone and/or corpse camping, is considered a part of the Game. Because the Game is a "player vs. player" game, you should always remember to protect yourself in areas where the members of hostile races can attack you, rather than contacting Blizzard's in-game customer service representatives for help when you have been killed by an enemy of your race. Nonetheless, certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:

[Deleted]

What server are you on and what ore/herb are you having a hard time gathering?

Me? I was quoting someone else. Personally, I'm not herb/orb gathering. And if I were on a server, I wouldn't be gathering those mats on the server except in Pandaria. I'd be gathering it on a cluster, a CRZ. But I always buy those low level herb/ore from AH, so even those I'd gather only in Pandaria. For me, that part is a non-issue, but I can very much recognize it is an issue for others. Speaking of which, I saw a fellow botting skinning on his level 90 shaman in Hellfire Peninsula. Very dumb thing given its higher pop. One, he was easily killable. Two, more people he pisses off and is noticed by them so he's getting reported (and will be banned eventually during next wave).

What I am doing is just pet battles and farming some rare mobs. I'm doing it on RP "cluster" and I like that cluster (on my 2nd account). Lovely low populated. But on my main's server all those CRZs are high populated, and a shitload of horde since we're merged with a high-pop horde realm. My main doesn't even leave Pandaria except for AH (which I prefer to do on bank alts anyway). There's simply no need. I remember a few times where I wasn't, e.g. helping out guildie with Ring of Blood and there's more competition for those (from both factions) due to CRZ. I CBA to PvP without PvP gear, so I'm not doing those anymore.

Now, when I signed up on my current realm on my main it didn't say: "3 expansions later your realm will be merged (when outside of Org/SW/expansion_land) with other servers, and it'll be all high population, and high horde instead of slightly in favor of alliance" which has those 4 problems I quoted (in addition to my phasing issue with pet battles).

You can reply to that "don't roll PvP server" but that wouldn't solve all of those issues (and the phasing issue with pet battle is PvP related but my complaint is not the PvP itself; its the phasing which sometimes works and sometimes it plain doesn't). What would solve all of those 5 issues is: "roll on a low pop CRZ" which is what my alt did. The end result is Blizzard is earning 15 EUR a month more thanks to CRZ because I'm playing pet battles on my 2nd account (even during corpserun in raid).

[Gnomeschool]

I used to play on PVP servers, but I kind of got tired of it after a while. It's fun to be able to engage in World PVP and to fight over certain things, but sometimes you just want to level or play without having to be very alert or looking over your shoulder.

My solution to not really enjoying that anymore was to move to another server. It might not sound like a very cheap or easy solution, but it is the solution to that problem.

[Trendy-Ideology]

Screwing up one group's experience to solve another group's problems is never an acceptable or tenable solution.

That's really the bottom line.



The situation naturally occurred over a long period of time.

The fix drastically changed many people's gameplay experience overnight.



That's simply not appropriate.