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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuhnai123 View Post
    It's just how your class plays, if you don't like it well you might want to think about what class you're playing. If you like survivability with a bit of burst go for a Demo Lock


    Anyway, funny shit that some people are actually saying ret paladin sustained and burst are good - tons of high rated PvPers I know ran a joke at the start of the season where they all voted for ret paladin as the most OP class in arena at the time and people actually started thinking they were actually not shit; wonder if it propagated so much that these are still the aftermath (I hope so).

    Ret doesn't need the healing it has currently. It never has. It needs sustained damage (the burst now isn't as good as the burst in cata, but it's still alright). It's just a dumb design and has been a dumb design for years.

  2. #22
    TLDR this entire thread as its currently 3am here and im getting tired but I will just leave my comments here anyway.

    IMO I feel ret is very clunky now (and boring - unless your cd's are running, so every 2 minutes or so you can actually have fun), with the implementation of holy power I feel ret has really gone downhill. Back when we used just mana it didn't really matter what you were doing you could always pull out atleast a little damage but now we haveto wait for 3 stacks of holy power before we can really do anything and also we need to keep using that same resource system in order to keep up inquisition. IMO the design for ret is quite flawed, maybe they should make inquisition cost something else, or just give it to us passively or something as having to use every like 3rd (without using cds) 3 stack of holy power on a passive buff really makes me feel gimped.

    Also in order to get holy power you need to actually hit the target, if you get kited all day then the only way you can get holy power is with judgement, which has a cooldown, making you even more gimp.

    Does anyone else feel like this, I haven't spoken out about this before on a forum, only to fellow guildies (none of which actually play ret) so I don't know if im alone in this.

    EDIT: Oh yeh and I didn't even mention that we are forced to use holy power for healing too -__-
    Last edited by Oncereborn; 2012-11-16 at 03:57 PM.

  3. #23
    Good. I shouldn't have to blanket silence you to land a kill when you're a dpser...
    If you're playing a Mage... you're bad. If you're playing a Warrior... you're bad. If you're playing a Shadow Priest... you're bad.

    None of the Blanket Silencers currently have issues with Ret. Unless they're being controlled by terrible players.

    Putting all of your Holy power into WoGs and instant Flash of Lighting yourself isn't skillful nor fun.
    With that implied nothing is skillful or fun because every spec/class is handled in a certain way.

    It's just how your class plays, if you don't like it well you might want to think about what class you're playing. If you like survivability with abit of burst go for a Demo Lock
    "If you feel like playing a Class/Spec that has decent defenses and has okay burst... Reroll to something that might be viable once Ret gets knife raped."

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-16 at 10:54 AM ----------

    I agree that offhealing is overpowered, but I wish they just had pvp power not affect you partners but still affect you. As a boomkin, I don't know how I am going to do 2v2,I rely too much on good heals to survive. If they gave us better survivability or the insane damage that other classes put out then I would be happy but when many classes can kill me if I don't heal, I feel like sometimes that I am forced to heal.
    It's overpowered for the Spriest, their level of control while being able to push out Nuke heals is ridiculous. You bring up an example of your Boomkin being forced to heal in a PvP situation which is completely OKAY because you're designed around such a defense. Blanket nerfing from Blizzard will only destroy the few Hybrids that barely have any Rep currently in Arena while not looking at the real problem which is SPriests. Their representation numbers compared to that of other Hybrids is far superior.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Oncereborn View Post
    IMO I feel ret is very clunky now (and boring - unless your cd's are running, so every 2 minutes or so you can actually have fun), with the implementation of holy power I feel ret has really gone downhill.

    Also in order to get holy power you need to actually hit the target, if you get kited all day then the only way you can get holy power is with judgement, which has a cooldown, making you even more gimp.

    Does anyone else feel like this, I haven't spoken out about this before on a forum, only to fellow guildies (none of which actually play ret) so I don't know if im alone in this.
    Personally I don't share your sentiments, imo holy power made rets better class then press buttons when they get off a cd. And melee are melee, if you aren't on target you aren't doing much dmg. But thing is rets aren't exactly ruining ladders and getting sidenerfed will hurt them more than SPs this nerf is aimed at. Buffing instant heals that comes from procs/special resources (% coefficients) for rets/ench/WW monks/ferals looks reasonable to me, their heals should be decent first of all becouse they aren't spamable and you aren't going to see them spaming heals non-stop as soon as dangers arises.

    But tbh i forsee Blizzard turning blind eye to wholle situation and let SP nerf backfire at rest hybrids. Really not much faith left in them.

  5. #25
    Your healing abilities will still scale with attack power like the other expansions. When 5.1 hits your healing output per ability will, meassured in ilvl, change in scaling from exponential to linear, seeing as instead of being both PvP power and AP based, it will change to only being AP based.

    If burst and healers healing output will be tuned down across the line, then this change wont be an issue at all. If burst and healing isnt changed away from the current situation, then it is not only ret paladins who are broken, but PvP itself.
    Ret Paladins won't be broken once the new changes hit that you've suggested... They're by far the most Balanced Spec out there and no one complains about them for a good reason. A Hybrid Healing Tax would destroy the spec along with other Hybrids.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-16 at 11:02 AM ----------

    Anyway, funny shit that some people are actually saying ret paladin sustained and burst are good - tons of high rated PvPers I know ran a joke at the start of the season where they all voted for ret paladin as the most OP class in arena at the time and people actually started thinking they were actually not shit; wonder if it propagated so much that these are still the aftermath (I hope so).

    Ret doesn't need the healing it has currently. It never has. It needs sustained damage (the burst now isn't as good as the burst in cata, but it's still alright). It's just a dumb design and has been a dumb design for years.
    They're not going to buff sustained damage because it would in turn disrupt PvE damage numbers. Either we get nerfed with our burst while taking a healing nerf which would buff our sustained or we simply take a healing nerf. Which do you think Blizzard will take as an option?

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roelath View Post
    Ret Paladins won't be broken once the new changes hit that you've suggested... They're by far the most Balanced Spec out there and no one complains about them for a good reason. A Hybrid Healing Tax would destroy the spec along with other Hybrids.
    Ehh. I think you are misintepretating what I wrote. Broken can mean underpowered as well.

  7. #27
    if they go through with this nerf, rets,enhance shamnas and ww monks need to be compensated in some other area, probably damage which would lead to pve issues.

    none of these specs, who are all rather balanced deserve to be nerfed because blizz was trying to control shadowpriests, who are the real egregious offenders of the caster off healers.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  8. #28
    Herald of the Titans Matt0193's Avatar
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    If this goes through for Ret, I'd say it's pretty fair for Ret to finally get that full PvP toolkit it's been lacking since launch.

    So an instantaneous gap closer (Not a half gap closer on Judgement that gets negated by any slow/root), ranged interrupt and/or silence as well as sustainable damage outside of CDs.

    Who am I kidding? Ret'll be once again only represented by Vanguards.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  9. #29
    Warchief Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ipoststuff View Post
    Ret damage outside of cooldowns is low. You're not gonna kill anyone with plain CS judge TV.

    In any case this nerf wasnt meant for Ret but it'll hit us hard. Ret survival will be gutted for no reason. While warriors get to keep their way higher survivability.
    That's true if you are not geared enough. Ret dmg without cds is okay tbh when you have good gears because we scale with gears so much specially with such stats as haste in our side it will get more insane in the future content.

  10. #30
    Why do i see every other class complaining that they do low damage outside of CDs -_-

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Minaa View Post
    so after this blue post

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5847988073

    we can see that ret pala healing will be nothing and we all know the dps is nothing too right now but when we was asking about buff ( i am mean ret palas ) ppl say " ret pala is not realy dps class its support class " well after blizz will nerf the healing to the ground i think ret pala no more support class .

    so i am asking here is ret pala will get a buff for his dps after u take the healing from him or u will just let ret pala die and become useless not a dps class or even support class
    Why do people like you make posts like this? the WoG heal was nerfed in cata also and since they are nerfing boomkin and shadow priest healing also you cant actually expect to sit their untouched with the OP ret heals.. and as for ret damage being bad? I think your doing something wrong ret damage has basically NEVER been low.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 12:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Thassarian View Post
    If this goes through for Ret, I'd say it's pretty fair for Ret to finally get that full PvP toolkit it's been lacking since launch.

    So an instantaneous gap closer (Not a half gap closer on Judgement that gets negated by any slow/root), ranged interrupt and/or silence as well as sustainable damage outside of CDs.

    Who am I kidding? Ret'll be once again only represented by Vanguards.
    Maybe cause vanguards actually knows how to play.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by R0AM3R View Post
    Why do people like you make posts like this? the WoG heal was nerfed in cata also and since they are nerfing boomkin and shadow priest healing also you cant actually expect to sit their untouched with the OP ret heals.. and as for ret damage being bad? I think your doing something wrong ret damage has basically NEVER been low.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 12:17 PM ----------



    Maybe cause vanguards actually knows how to play.
    I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Please do not enter the discussion when you are ignorant of the situation and the consequences of this change.

  13. #33
    so many 1200 players posting about what they experience in BGs. All decent players know that outside of the ret offhealz (which is basiclly the only reason ret is even run over other classes) ret dmg is subpar. Yes the burst is OK, but not really comparable to other classes atm. I guess i should be happy im not a rogue, but if ret dont get compensated dmg wise for this nerf, the spec will be all but dead PvP wise.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Please do not enter the discussion when you are ignorant of the situation and the consequences of this change.
    Have no idea what i'm talking about when im 2300 rated and you are 1750 MAX sorry i'll go take my lack of knowledge elsewhere.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by R0AM3R View Post
    Have no idea what i'm talking about when im 2300 rated and you are 1750 MAX sorry i'll go take my lack of knowledge elsewhere.
    people saying "ret damage has never been low" don't know what they are talking about.
    i mean rnging people to death WAS fun in BC, but it wasn't good damage.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by R0AM3R View Post

    Maybe cause vanguards actually knows how to play.

    lol what a dumbdumb

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandoh View Post
    so many 1200 players posting about what they experience in BGs. All decent players know that outside of the ret offhealz (which is basiclly the only reason ret is even run over other classes) ret dmg is subpar. Yes the burst is OK, but not really comparable to other classes atm. I guess i should be happy im not a rogue, but if ret dont get compensated dmg wise for this nerf, the spec will be all but dead PvP wise.
    I agree with your Brandoh which is why I started leveling my warrior! If you look at trade for raid leaders looking for melee classes for RBGS their is a reason why Ret paladins are skipped over, and in arenas the only reason ret paladins are taken now is because of their strong off healing they can do. If blizzard guts the off healing and our sustained damage remains sub par then you might as well just roll another class!

    It's not fun as a ret paladin not having a choice to do RBGS in trade chat(nobody wants one) , Trying to find a viable comp for Arenas( there are some 3's comps you can get into but not all that great another class would be better)! I honestly feel as if I'm forced to play another class just to continue to play WoW because of the bad sustained damage Ret paladins have. Outside of CD's you can't do the damage you are intended to do!

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