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  1. #1
    High Overlord
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    A way to make Aspect of the Cheetah relevant

    A link straight to a forum post I made on the EU forums.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5939833969

    Right now, Aspect Of The Cheetah (AOTC) is as close to useless without actually being useless as its possible to be. Let's face it; its main function is to speed up corpse runs. Aspect Of The Pack (AOTP) has had some very limited and situational usage both in Yogg-Saron's brain and during the Ice Phases on Hagara. But I hardly think either of those are reason enough to allow the abilities to linger on in such a sad state. By removing Aspect of the Fox in patch 5.1, Blizzard seems to be willing to address game play / functionality issues of hunter Aspects.

    In that light, I'd propose the following. Firstly remove AOTP. Secondly change AOTC to:

    Aspect of the Cheetah - 3min CD, increases the hunter's movement speed by 30% for 6 seconds. Only one aspect can be active at a time.

    No more of this "...if the hunter is struck he will be dazed" nonsense, either! We'll be paying a price by losing both the 10% damage boost from Aspect of the Hawk as well as the 15% damage reduction provided by Aspect of the Iron Hawk. I think this is a fair trade off of good and bad. As for whether this should be reset by Readiness, I think it probably should. I don't think the ability is powerful enough to sacrifice the reset of DPS cooldowns in order to get a back-to-back sprint. Moreover, this proposed change more accurately reflects the actual behaviour of a Cheetah – a short burst of speed followed by a much longer recovery period. The ability will “feel” more Cheetah-ish, if you will!

    Movement speed increases seem to be two a penny - except for hunters. We do have the option to talent into Posthaste, but even that movement speed boost is predicated on using Disengage first. Also, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimera is just far more attractive from a raiding perspective. A 1 min CD on an ability that will grant us 50% damage reduction for up to 6 seconds or can act as a pseudo-immunity? Yes please! Even taking into account the rather high price we'll sometimes pay (50% damage reduction for up to 6 seconds in exchange for turning off our attacks), CTHC is still a very attractive, and almost mandatory, talent for progression raiding.

    As I mentioned, movement speed boosts abound for other classes. As well as playing a hunter I like to mess about on a Feral Druid, Rogue, Shaman and Priest. Those 4 classes alone have access to:

    Feral - Cat Form, Feline Swiftness, Dash, Stampeding Roar
    Rogue - Fleet Footed, Sprint, Burst of Speed, Shadowstep
    Shaman - Ghost Wolf, Spirit Walk for enchancement
    Priest - Body & Soul, Glyphed Mind Flay, Feathers, Inner Will (and its associated glyph of Inner Sanctum).

    That's four classes with access to a total of 14 ways to boost movement speed. I've deliberately omitted the boot enchants.

    The most cursory glance at Wowhead reveals the following movement speed boosts for these classes, too:

    Death Knight - Unholy Presence, Death's Advance
    Monk - Tiger's Lust, Momentum
    Paladin - Speed of Light, Long Arm of the Law, Pursuit of Justice
    Warlock - Burning Rush, Glyph of Unending Breath (I jest), Soulburn: Demonic Circle
    Warriors - Glyph of Enraged Speed...ok, wow

    So, we can see that Mages and Warriors are in a similar boat to Hunters in terms of not having bona fide movement speed boosts. Furthermore, given my almost complete unfamiliarity with the classes listed above, I may well have missed some other movement speed boost they can access. However, the plight of other classes shouldn't diminish the argument to grant hunters a bona fide movement speed boost either.

    Now, the big wish...

    Glyph of Aspect of the Pack: Grants the effect of Aspect of the Cheetah to raid/party members within 20yards. Only one aspect can be active at a time

    Now, this is a big'un. Blizzard seems to shy away from granting raid-wide utility to pure classes (buffs/debuffs aside). Even Symbiosis doesn't allow, say, a Mage to cast Tranquillity. That goes to Shadow Priests who previously were able to use Divine Hymn anyway. This glyph would mark a sea-change in Blizzard practice and probably is a total pipedream, but I can hope!

    To summarise: Right now AOTC and AOTP are both virtually irrelevant. My proposed change to AOTC would further round off our non-damaging spell toolkit nicely. Having such a CD isn't going to change Arena/BG effectiveness to any great degree, would be beneficial in a myriad of ways in the PVE sphere, and has a nice balance of give and take.
    Last edited by Helfarch; 2012-11-16 at 09:53 AM.

  2. #2
    The only use I've found for AotP in MoP is on the first boss in HoF (the damage there doesn't daze you for some reason). With 5.1 getting rid of Fox, I'll be able to free some binds because there's no way in hell I'll be using C or P more than a couple of times a week.

    Aspects are pretty useless as 5.1 stands. Beast never had much use anyway. Wild has been gone a while. Fox is going. The speed boosts have such a drastic downside that their use is discouraged. If we need a big speed boost in a raid, the druids have that covered, only far better. If I was redesigning it, I'd bake Hawk right into the class and have Pack replaced with the druid's Stampeding Roar ability.

  3. #3
    A minority of Dps Specs has no access to an Execute Ability.

    Some Classes have what other don't have, and your only way to get faster from point A to Point B is Disengage with Posthaste.

    Disengage itself is in my view far more useful than other talents even without posthaste, for example:
    Death Advance: 10% passive speed and 6Sec 30% sprint, not very good
    Ghost wolf: 30% speed perma but being unable to cast (Personally i am only using GW if it's crucial to get as fast as possible away because it's a dps loss)


    Classes who have an ability like Blink, Charge and other stuff simply don't need a passive movement increase, because they use these abilities instead of walking.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


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  4. #4
    The Patient Mizzow's Avatar
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    Id like to see Aspect of the Pack become Hunters version of Stampeding Roar

  5. #5
    Well constructed post, but I personally think hunters already have WAY too many effing cooldowns and hotkeys. I sure as heck don't want another.

    Though, I'd be in favor of Aspects giving certain advantages in the way that DK Presences do. Hawk = Ranged AP, Cheetah = Haste and movement speed, Beast = Pet damage, etc.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Skygoneblue View Post
    Though, I'd be in favor of Aspects giving certain advantages in the way that DK Presences do. Hawk = Ranged AP, Cheetah = Haste and movement speed, Beast = Pet damage, etc.
    But that wouldn't be a choice to be used in combat. It's just something you'd look up somewhere, and always use it for that spec. It wouldn't really add any more gameplay, it's just one more fiddly thing to check when you swap specs.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    But that wouldn't be a choice to be used in combat. It's just something you'd look up somewhere, and always use it for that spec. It wouldn't really add any more gameplay, it's just one more fiddly thing to check when you swap specs.
    Not entirely. It could theoretically be advantageous to macro a pet damage aspect with Rabid, or swap to a haste aspect under Bloodlust/Heroism to reach certain breakpoints.

  8. #8
    I find Cheetah very useful with the glyph. A decent speed increase without having to worry about daze.
    Awesome for fights where you have to run a decent length at once, and there's a chance of you taking damage.

  9. #9
    I don't like it one bit from PVP perspective. You can have a much higher uptime of Cheetah if you play properly and the glyph guarantees you to not get dazed.

    Similarly in PVE, 6sec on 3min cd is just not good enough. For example, on the first boss in HoF, it's very useful to have Cheetah when switching platforms and the phase change happens faster than 3mins.

  10. #10
    Especially with Fox being removed, I do think aspects need to be revamped.....Cheetah has it's clever usages in both PvE and PvP perhaps but I don't think it warrants having a whole aspect system, one thing that does 'moar dmg' and one that gives 'moar speed'. However, I don't think the OP's idea is the right answer, we really don't need a speed increase CD, especially when we already have disengage...I mean the distance you can cover in 6 seconds with 30% run increase is nowhere near as much distance as disengage + running at normal speeds for 5 seconds thereafter. Also, the last thing we need is yet another CD. Hunters are already a spamfest class with CDs.

  11. #11
    With the removal of Fox, they should make Cheetah just increased run speed, no atk power, remove the ability to cast on the run.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by malevolant View Post
    With the removal of Fox, they should make Cheetah just increased run speed, no atk power, remove the ability to cast on the run.
    Then hunters would be the only class (excluding mana users, which are irrelevant) in the game that wouldn't be able to regen their primary resource even remotely effectively while moving, and we'd be focused starved in pvp and any fight in PvE that required a lot of moving.

  13. #13
    30% movement speed for 8 sec with a 3m CD that has a negative (worse negative than AotP today)? Why? Even just a simple 30% boost for 8 sec is weak. Maybe if it affected everyone nearby and lasted longer (or made you faster) without a downside. Nobody's use this ability if it made you unable to DPS for the duration.

    I'm not even a Hunter myself.
    I'm not a native English speaker, and yet, I don't suck at English. The argument "English is not my mother tongue" doesn't actually give you an excuse to do so.

  14. #14
    That would make Cheetah absolutely HORRENDOUS.

    I have no issues with it right now with the Glyph. If you do, you should probably re-evaluate how you PvP as a hunter.

  15. #15
    While I agree cheetah could use some sprucing up I wouldn't really like it if it was just turned into a movement speed cooldown..maybe remove the daze completely and change the glyph?
    [Glyph of Aspect of the Cheetah]: For 3 seconds after casting Aspect of the Cheetah your movement speed is increased by 60%. This effect has a 30 second cooldown.

    Also, kinda off-topic but with the removal of fox I can't help but feel we should get another aspect.
    [Aspect of the Marlin]: Increases movement speed while swimming by 50%.
    Change Marlin with any other fish that applies, I just googled a fast swimming fish.

  16. #16
    I would prefer "Aspect of the Tuna"

  17. #17
    Brewmaster Cyph3r's Avatar
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    Personally I think the entire aspect system is on it's way out. If we lose speed boost from cheetah (as in, if they remove all aspects and don't give us a way to run faster similar to cheetah) I'll be bummed. I use it ALL THE TIME. Not just during fights, but all the time to get around faster, especially over short distances, or indoors when you can't mount. It's to the point where all my other characters feel like they move slower than they should.

    But currently, no, there's nothing wrong with cheetah. Especially with the glyph.
    - The Hunter's Creed -
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    My pet, without me, is useless. Without my pet, I am useless."

  18. #18
    High Overlord Zanez's Avatar
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    I think they have/are making AotC relevant, I use it fairly often on bosses personally (glyphed). With the glyph, getting hit no longer negates the entire purpose of using AotC, however ofc it is a dps loss, but I still feel it is very useful. The only annoying part is if you want to keep dpsing and are low on focus you are stuck while moving since you cant go into fox if you need that, but that is being addressed.

    However as for PvP I see it is very difficult to use, maybe A glyph that reduced the movement speed of it down to 20% but no negative affects occur from being hit by players or something.

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire Desh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBitt View Post
    Then hunters would be the only class (excluding mana users, which are irrelevant) in the game that wouldn't be able to regen their primary resource even remotely effectively while moving, and we'd be focused starved in pvp and any fight in PvE that required a lot of moving.
    ?

    You're aware that we can cast our focus regen abilities on the run without Aspect of the Fox in 5.1 when Fox gets removed, right?

    Main Toon - Hunter (currently an LFR hero). Blue Label - 14/14H (SoO) 25 man.
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  20. #20
    High Overlord
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    Some interesting responses, but also some that seem to show a little bit of confusion.

    1) Aspect of the Cheetah/Pack has no impact on our ability to DPS on the move. That was tied to Fox, which is getting the hoof come 5.1 and instead we'll just be able to cast on the move in whatever Aspect we choose to use

    2) The major issue with Cheetah/Pack is that, whilst it can be glyphed to prevent dazing, it can't be relied up to do what its meant to do - ie. boost our movement speed. Hence my suggestion for some change to ensure that hunters have access to a reliable speed boost which also has a "downside" (no +10% damage, no -15% damage reduction, short duration, long cooldown). Hell, maybe even a small focus cost of c20 could even be added to further remove the idea that we might get such an ability for "free".

    4) A couple of people have mentioned PVP - this post was specifically from a raiding/PVE point of view. Whilst I have jumped into the very occasional arena/BG/RBG I certainly wouldn't ever claim to be able to speak with any kind of knowledge on the subject
    Last edited by Helfarch; 2012-11-18 at 08:07 AM.

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