SMF vs TG when loosing crit

[Rashi]

Oi there.

A question regarding Fury SMF and TG:

I currently got 489 main hand and 476 main hand in TG; Elege twohanders. my question is it worth going SMF if I get x2 496 ilvl one hander even tho i loose like 3% crit? or is TG ahead looking on the Sha weapons where you gain like 3% crit hell loads of mastery.

Thoughts?

[Migrin]

Without calculating it, I would assume that 2 496 onehanders should easily outdps your tg weapons simply becaus of the iLvL difference and the weapondamage and strength that go along with it.

[silmarilen]

dont forget that on top of being higher ilvl, the swords also have a socket, which you can put hit/crit gems in allowing you to reforge more hit to crit.

[Roseby]

It's not even close.
SMF 496 will destroy that iLvl TG in both Sim's and practice.
The only difference is a fight with heavy cleave (such as Wind Lord), with which TG will not get blown away as normal.
Regardless though, SMF will still respectably pull ahead if you properly stack your execute.

[jarbulldog]

Without calculating it, I would assume that 2 496 onehanders should easily outdps your tg weapons simply becaus of the iLvL difference and the weapondamage and strength that go along with it.

actually on those swords you don't want to use the 160hit/160crit gem because the socket bonus is only 60 master. So you are better just doing 320 crit and ignoring socket bonus.

[Roseby]

That's a very good point. Looking at my reforges I've got mastery going into crit. If I can put that mastery into Hit instead, it's a neat net gain.
Good catch bro.

[enjay]

actually on those swords you don't want to use the 160hit/160crit gem because the socket bonus is only 60 master. So you are better just doing 320 crit and ignoring socket bonus.

i disagree. if you gemmed for the bonus, you could reforge the hit to crit elsewhere on your gear and end up with a net gain of 60 secondary stats. 60 mastery is better than no mastery.

[Roseby]

Looking at stat weights (3.2 Crit 2.5 Hit 1.84 Mastery) the straight crit is slightly superior to the the 160 Hit/160 Crit w/ socket bonus.

I see your logic, but with an approximately 1 to 0.65 return on hit to crit, that 320 hit translates to approximately 208 crit. 208 crit = 665.6 DPS rating.
In it's raw state of hit, it is 800 DPS rating.

I hope for two things : That this is a proper explanation, and that I am not completely wrong.

[enjay]

Looking at stat weights (3.2 Crit 2.5 Hit 1.84 Mastery) the straight crit is slightly superior to the the 160 Hit/160 Crit w/ socket bonus.

I see your logic, but with an approximately 1 to 0.65 return on hit to crit, that 320 hit translates to approximately 208 crit. 208 crit = 665.6 DPS rating.
In it's raw state of hit, it is 800 DPS rating.

I hope for two things : That this is a proper explanation, and that I am not completely wrong.

example. your gear has 20000 (rando number) secondary stats.
2550 of those are used to get hit to 7.5% and 2550 are used to get your expertise to 7.5%

this leaves 14900 secondary stats spread out over haste, mastery, and crit.

for the sake of arguement we'll say you have no haste, 10000 crit and 4900 mastery.

you also have a gem slot unused on your gear with a 60 mastery bonus. it is a blue socket.

you choose to put a 320 crit gem in it and ignore the bonus, this gives you a total of 10320 crit and 4900 mastery.

i choose to put in a 160crit/160hit gem, take the 60 mastery and then reforge 160 of my hit rating to crit.

i now have:
2550 hit
2550 expertise
0 haste
10320 crit
4960 mastery.

its not a big increase, but this is a world of min/maxing.

hope this helps

[Roseby]

Yes but its not a 1:1 ratio. If you reforge your hit into crit, you won't end up with 10320. You'll end up with 10208. With the stat weights being what they are, the method you listed would be inferior (in this world of min/maxing).

[jarbulldog]

example. your gear has 20000 (rando number) secondary stats.
2550 of those are used to get hit to 7.5% and 2550 are used to get your expertise to 7.5%

this leaves 14900 secondary stats spread out over haste, mastery, and crit.

for the sake of arguement we'll say you have no haste, 10000 crit and 4900 mastery.

you also have a gem slot unused on your gear with a 60 mastery bonus. it is a blue socket.

you choose to put a 320 crit gem in it and ignore the bonus, this gives you a total of 10320 crit and 4900 mastery.

i choose to put in a 160crit/160hit gem, take the 60 mastery and then reforge 160 of my hit rating to crit.

i now have:
2550 hit
2550 expertise
0 haste
10320 crit
4960 mastery.

its not a big increase, but this is a world of min/maxing.

hope this helps

wow you are completly wrong because 160 crit out ways 60 mast and 160hit sep value wise

[Roseby]

wow you are completly wrong because 160 crit out ways 60 mast and 160hit sep value wise

I think the guy you are quoting is thinking of Cata, where you would gem a 20 strength 20 hit for a 20 strength bonus, getting essentially a free 20 hit by smart gemming.

With gems morphed into somewhat of a different entity, a rule of thumb isn't as applicable.
Just have to have sep value's and number crunch for the best end result.

[enjay]

wow you are completly wrong because 160 crit out ways 60 mast and 160hit sep value wise

you clearly did not understand what i was saying. i am not wrong.

---------- Post added 2012-11-20 at 03:40 PM ----------

Yes but its not a 1:1 ratio. If you reforge your hit into crit, you won't end up with 10320. You'll end up with 10208. With the stat weights being what they are, the method you listed would be inferior (in this world of min/maxing).

when you reforge it is a 1:1 ratio.

example. my boots have 515 mastery. i reforge that mastery to expertise. i now have 309 mastery and 206 expertise.

---------- Post added 2012-11-20 at 03:51 PM ----------

OP: sorry for the derailment.

the 496 1handers would be the better choice imo. sim and dummy/lfr test them to make sure, but the ilvl will more than make up for the crit.