Eurozone officially falls back into Recession

[Kivimetsan]

People who think like this should be forced to live in Somalia for a year to experience all the joys of living in an unregulated environment.

HAHAHAHHAA

This straw man argument is hilarious. No seriously. Thank you.
Somalia is oh so free market bro's! *sarcasm*.
You know nothing about Somalia so shut your face.

Edit:

Typical anti freedom zealot that things he needs to force people to do things.
People that think like you... actually no. See I respect your opinion and your right to say what you believe in. I would even defend your right to say that if it meant death.

I doubt you could say the same.

Infracted: Please be more civil.

[tyran]

Yeah well I bet you're going to regret voting Obama when China calls in their debt and all the street names get changed to mandarin for our new overlords.

never ever gonna happen,EVER

[Wells]

HAHAHAHHAA

This straw man argument is hilarious. No seriously. Thank you.
Somalia is oh so free market bro's! *sarcasm*.
You know nothing about Somalia so shut your face.

If there is a problem with his post that is so clear I would suggest something better than "shut your face"

[Riidii]

Notsureifserious.jpg

Dead serious. Might want to take a look.

Comparing the libertarian "limited government" ideal to Somalia is beyond stupid.

[Tierbook]

Yeah well I bet you're going to regret voting Obama when China calls in their debt and all the street names get changed to mandarin for our new overlords.

oh wells you crazy

I hope your not srs

[Deleted]

So, is there any actual evidence of this? China's a relevant, but not particularly large portion of US debt buying, and I'd expect we'd be seeing some upward pressure on interest rates if there were real fears about US credit. There just don't seem to be any.

I did say in the future, a huge debt is not a problem as long you get it close to 0 rate, the problem is then the loans is ending, and you have to retake them and you cant get close to 0 rate.

[Kivimetsan]

...a huge debt is not a problem as long you get it close to 0 rate

As long as we continue to think like this, we're doomed.

---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 05:50 PM ----------

If there is a problem with his post that is so clear I would suggest something better than "shut your face"

Shut your face is perfectly suited for this.
See, he put in zero effort to reject my proposed solution to our woes.
I just followed the trend.

[Spectral]

I did say in the future, a huge debt is not a problem as long you get it close to 0 rate, the problem is then the loans is ending, and you have to retake them and you cant get close to 0 rate.

So, watch out for the invisible bond vigilantes. Got it.

[Kivimetsan]

Dead serious. Might want to take a look.

Comparing the libertarian "limited government" ideal to Somalia is beyond stupid.

People just suck at thinking outside the box. Thats it.
For example the typical person thinks:
left wing = communism/socialism/democrat party
right wing = fascism/corporatism/libertarian/republican

People think there are only 2 options. That also means that a country like Somalia, void of government, represents some sort of utopian dream of anarcho capitalism or libertarianism. People just suck at thinking properly because generally the majority were inducted into public schools, where thinking isn't taught, rather following is taught and/forced.

---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 05:57 PM ----------

If you really want to solve the problem, you should watch Ron Pauls farewell speech to congress. Sure hes a career politician, but he advocates policies and ideals which represent a clear solution to today's woes. Sure its not the perfect solution, but its better than perpetual war and a perpetual economic crisis.

The link is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q03cWio-zjk

[Spectral]

Yeah, to be fair, a genuine anarcho capitalistic society doesn't exist at all. There's a fucking reason for that.

[schippie]

I honestly think most northern European countries are not going to have much problems its only the south. And the protests of Wednesday i can fully understand they are squeezed bone dry currently and that probably will hurt a lot.

Anyways the biggest problem for the EU currently is the slower growth in china. And the financial disaster that is the US. If the US does not manage to get its spending in check before january. And happens what everybody fears, the whole world will be in a recession again.

Best thing that can happen now is the south European countries leave the Euro zone. China starts to grow again, and the US gets its stuff together to.

[Nadev]

i blame it on socialism

I interrupt this thread to say I love your avatar.

That is all.

[Grizzly Willy]

Just as the 17th century marked the rise of the nation-state, the 21st will be characterized by the rise of what might be called the "mega-state." China, India, and Brazil will join the US as the dominant economic powers and the comparatively tiny countries of Europe will unite or be made irrelevant.

I know I'm a tad late, but I have to comment on this.

I find stuff like this fascinating. This could be a monumental time in history, these next couple decades (yes, I realize that's a wide stretch of time). The nations that serve as the driving force towards transhumanism are being formed now. Whether a united Europe is a part of that or not could very well be decided soon.

I understand that this is a bit insensitive, but from a purely observational perspective with an eye towards the future, I am excited to see how this develops.

[MMKing]

I blame it on:

1) Stupid people, voting on Politicians that promise to give money to x people, ease on taxes and similar costly but popular policies. The Politicians cannot fund this, so they have to borrow the money in order to please the voters. Stupid Politicians, stupid people unable to see further than a year into the future. Never ever have i heard a Politician say: Sorry, we can't afford it.

2) The Euro as a currency. First of all, let me explain the basics of how the value of currency changes. When an economy is growing, working citizens receive more money in form of payment for work. More money into the system brings the value of the money down (inflation), this does not cancel out 100%, so your paycheck can still purchase more good than you could the previous year.

3) Equally when an economy is shrinking, wages go down... or they should, in a sane rational world. Your work is worth less money = you should make less? But no, here socialism stumbles and breaks both legs. Workers demand that their pay stay the same (the arguable middle ground), or they demand that their wages continue to increase, beyond the companies capability to pay. With capitalistic policies, the company could just hire someone else to do the job at a lower wage, but they are not allowed to do so. Instead, they are forces to increase wages and fire people in order to make more money than they are losing. This is how the % of citizens with work starts to dwindle.

To sum it up: Companies are expected to provide higher pay and welfare for the workers during good times. But workers are not expected to let the off the welfare and some of their wages when the company is having a rough time.

When these people lose their jobs, the government is expected to pay these people a sum. Albeit a small sum, when the workforce reaches an all time low, the remaining workers are simply unable to produce enough goods to care for themselves, the old in society, the children and 10%+ of the adults unable to find work. At the same time, the workforce will not accept cuts in pay. Causing a downward circle where the economy will continue to shrink, unless the country file for bankruptcy.

4) (continue from 2)) Back to the Euro, and why sharing currency between giant economies like Germany and rubbish countries like The Republic or Ireland and Greece, is a bad idea. When economies go down, the value of their money go down. But in Europe, when Greece's economy goes down, the value of the Euro go down. The same Euro that is shared with Germany and France. These economies then enjoy a growing economy, at the same time Greece's dwindling economy holds the value of the Euro down.

Ultimately, Germany and to some extent France. Will continue to grow as long as Counties, heavily burdened by debt continues to shrink in the economy sector.

All of these factors, combined with the fact that Greece, Spain, Ireland, Italy etc cannot print money to inflate their money makes the Eurozone destines to fail. Borrowing more money will save them for a few more years, but when several countries bankrupt at the same time, it will be even worse.

[Zhangfei]

People just suck at thinking outside the box. Thats it.
For example the typical person thinks:
left wing = communism/socialism/democrat party
right wing = fascism/corporatism/libertarian/republican

People think there are only 2 options. That also means that a country like Somalia, void of government, represents some sort of utopian dream of anarcho capitalism or libertarianism. People just suck at thinking properly because generally the majority were inducted into public schools, where thinking isn't taught, rather following is taught and/forced.

You are not in every public school across every nation in the world. What gives you the right to make these kind of statements beyond petty ignorance?

[Nadev]

You are not in every public school across every nation in the world. What gives you the right to make these kind of statements beyond petty ignorance?

Looking at America's education system and it's ever growing obsession with passing state standardized tests is probably where he got it from. Not to say that's the world standard though.

[Zhangfei]

Looking at America's education system and it's ever growing obsession with passing state standardized tests is probably where he got it from. Not to say that's the world standard though.

While those tests exist, they're not inherent to every class. And plenty of teachers teach those skills with standardised testing too.

It's a nonsense statement.

[Banzhe]

I blame everything on socialism.

It is essentially the root of all our problems. I would try to explain this further with some examples, but sadly the majority of people are incapable of understanding free market economics and how essential this system is to maintain individual freedom. People don't understand the difference between corporatism/fascism and capitalism. True capitalism is void of government intervention and thus regulated by society, not government. In fact, libertarians are much more socialistic than socialists. Socialists blame government for all there woes, but there grand solution is the justification that only government can provide safety and security from the big evil corporatist, thus they create more government to solve the problem. Its like taking a shit in a blocked toilet and expecting it to disappear, or like pouring petrol on a fire and expecting it to go out, or printing money and expecting it to solve your economic problems, just like in the US and EU at the moment.

On topic: Nothing will solve the EU. It is over, the dream of a united Europe is failing, its proven to be impossible and if by some chance it continues to remain in tact, it will not be a free state, but rather a state of sheep run by wolves.

How enlightened, I suppose you firmly believe the Wall-street cracks through history, the global crisis' brought on by banks speculating in extreme high-risk bonds / stock / loans are all to blame on socialism also?

It's already been mentioned, but Denmark, Norway, Sweden.., probably the best countries to live in world-wide by any standard (Obviously not if you want the freedom to speculate in the above as the wind blows), the only reason why these crisis are coming around every 10 years is because of people with your dumbfounded mentality.
On a national level, look at countries where the government is outside of the very law they create, Italy, Spain, Greece (And I'd even put the Us in that same category due to spending vs total budget, as in they devaluate the dollar per day by any standard except their own), all countries where the top of the chain is complete out of sync with what's going on in the country, and all that matters is ensuring the top gets more and more while the rest of the nation goes down the shitter.

What it comes down to; Do the people in power have the nations best interest at heart, or they're own!

I blame it on:

1) Stupid people, voting on Politicians that promise to give money to x people, ease on taxes and similar costly but popular policies. The Politicians cannot fund this, so they have to borrow the money in order to please the voters. Stupid Politicians, stupid people unable to see further than a year into the future. Never ever have i heard a Politician say: Sorry, we can't afford it.

Pay attention to Danish, Norwegian and Swedish elections next time you have the opportunity, while not saying directly that there might not be funds for X, they do publicly tell people while they're out campaigning that X can only be funded by taking money away from Y or raising tax on Z.., and if it means Y needs to be completed shopped down they will say there's just not funds for it at a given time!

Normal people call it managing a budget.

[Deleted]

I guess the big question is whether the Eurozone will eventually be dissolved or not.
If things keep up like this then I don't see any future for the Euro.

Either:
1.) The Eurozone fixes its shit
2.) The Eurozone kicks out the moochers
3.) The Eurozone is dissolved

Eurozone dissolving is bullshit speculatio spun by mainstream media. There's no reason to think it ever would.

[Darsey]

Recession that its source was unregulated capitalism (or even corporalism), blamed on socialism and people try to fix it by... some more unregulated capitalism.