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  1. #21
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    Now imagine if Iran gets nukes wouldn't it reduce the likelihood of a conventional warfare between them and Israel? and wouldn't that save us much trouble?
    No, but only because the potential for that is already pretty much zero.

    Anyway, continuing to push their nuclear program seems like a profoundly unwise idea. It won't deter the US, since our conventional and nuclear superiority will still be overwhelming and the chances of a real, open war between Israel and Iran are already incredibly low.
    When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Shouldnt we have to wait for them to actually make the bomb for it considered to be a wep of mass destruction? Wasnt that how the un treated iraq?
    I don't think that any country that was involved in Iraq wants to repeat it is witch hunt for "WMD".

  3. #23
    The Unstoppable Force RICH8472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    I don't know. I'm not military brass nor in the military intelligence business.
    The truth is, we can't. Our forces are over worked and over stretched to start a new ground war in the middle east, taking Iran would be very costly and would spark huge retaliations from other Islamic countries.

  4. #24
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    No, what you said is that because Iran apparently is sympathetic towards "terrorists", it is problematic for them to obtain a nuke. However, we've got a country who is also sympathetic towards "terrorists" that already have nukes and guess what? nothing happened at all.
    How many military bases to we have in Iran?

    Just saying, comparing the two states is invalid. We are much closer with Pakistan (no matter how sour) than Iran.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-16 at 01:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    The truth is, we can't. Our forces are over worked and over stretched to start a new ground war in the middle east, taking Iran would be very costly and would spark huge retaliations from other Islamic countries.
    Really, what rank do you hold in the US military?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    1) Use of the nuke save more lives than it killed.
    How does a nuke save lives? Did you get a hold of that crystal ball yet? I wanna borrow it and see if your right.

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    No, but only because the potential for that is already pretty much zero.
    That is not what Israel's prime minister thinks...

  7. #27
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    1) Use of the nuke save more lives than it killed.
    2) It demonstrated the power of the weapon, to discourage such use in the future.
    Doesnt a weapon detonated off the shore demonstrate the power of the weapon?

  8. #28
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    Now imagine if Iran gets nukes wouldn't it reduce the likelihood of a conventional warfare between them and Israel? and wouldn't that save us much trouble?
    If that's the only effect of them getting the bomb, then sure. Again, though, this just goes back to my general stance against proliferation.

    All that said, I don't think we'll be able to stop them from getting the bomb forever, and reacting so harshly with such heavy handed sanctions just makes them less likely to take our guidance when they finally do get the bomb. I think at this point, I'd much rather just remove the sanctions contingent on Iran accepting our guidance on how to properly secure their nuclear materials, and how to have a proper system in place to avoid the wrong people pushing the button at the wrong moment.
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  9. #29
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    How does a nuke save lives? Did you get a hold of that crystal ball yet? I wanna borrow it and see if your right.
    Protip: The amount of purple hearts we made just for the Invasion of Japan was used through the Gulf War. And that was just US casualties.

    It's pretty much common sense that the Japanese would attempt to stave off an invasion in one of the bloodiest battles mankind has ever seen. It would have made Gettysburg look like a dinner party.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  10. #30
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    That is not what Israel's prime minister thinks...
    I don't believe Netanyahu has ever said that he thinks that Iran has a plan to wage conventional war on Israel.
    When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!

  11. #31
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    Doesnt a weapon detonated off the shore demonstrate the power of the weapon?
    Probably. Not like I can go back and change it though.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  12. #32
    The Unstoppable Force RICH8472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    1) Use of the nuke save more lives than it killed.
    2) It demonstrated the power of the weapon, to discourage such use in the future.
    Debatable, I have seen reports that Japan was about to collapse anyway. Their economy was fucked, they were receiving no imports from abroad and their civilian population was not as devout as propaganda claimed. Parts of their forces were even surrendering en masse.

    Point number 2 was the only one set in concrete, had to show those red commie bastards what they were up against.

  13. #33
    Guys Iran is no thread to world, they are not stupid and any attack can be instant suicide for them BUT human rights is a problem atm in Iran, and US has no real intention of bringing democracy to middle east, so all we can do it to support NGO groups who really care about human rights all around the world.

  14. #34
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    How many military bases to we have in Iran?

    Just saying, comparing the two states is invalid. We are much closer with Pakistan (no matter how sour) than Iran.
    Zero you know why? because the US established a dictator there in the past and they certainly don't want that to repeat again. Why is it invalid? If Pakistan decides at any time to launch their nukes they can whether you have bases there or not is irrelevant.

  15. #35
    The Unstoppable Force RICH8472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    How many military bases to we have in Iran?

    Just saying, comparing the two states is invalid. We are much closer with Pakistan (no matter how sour) than Iran.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-16 at 01:43 PM ----------

    Really, what rank do you hold in the US military?
    I am not in the US military, I hold the rank of Captain in the British Army and I pick up my Majors rank next year.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    I don't believe Netanyahu has ever said that he thinks that Iran has a plan to wage conventional war on Israel.
    I don't, personally, believe anything Netanyahu has said.
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  17. #37
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    Zero you know why? because the US established a dictator there in the past and they certainly don't want that to repeat again. Why is it invalid? If Pakistan decides at any time to launch their nukes they can whether you have bases there or not is irrelevant.
    It's invalid because we have foreign relations with Pakistan, whether you want to acknowledge them or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  18. #38
    The Patient Klingzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    1) Use of the nuke save more lives than it killed.
    2) It demonstrated the power of the weapon, to discourage such use in the future.
    1) Yeah, that's what US officials say.
    2) You might want to explain that reasoning to the thousands of people who are still suffering from the aftermath of that bomb, they'll be pleased to listen.

    I just don't know why people keep defending ANY use of nuclear weapons, regardless of who the culprit is.

  19. #39
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    I am not in the US military
    Then you cannot speak to the status of the troops.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Many other dangerous countries have nukes, why not Iran?
    so true, Im more concerned about pakistan having nukes than Iran - I mean I honestly cant see Iran attacking anyone - they may be religious nuts, but they arent stupid, if anything they are seeking nukes to protect their sovereignty - but using them would be dumb, especially with Israel looming over them, and the USA keeping a close eye on the area - If anything getting Rid of north koreas nuclear programme of pakistans would be better than wasting time with Iran

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