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  1. #81
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Estimates are not proof of anything, why do you believe everything you are told? Keep an open mind and do your own research.
    You cherry-pick, so I will put appropriate weight to your advice.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  2. #82
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Yes, because the military isn't capable of estimating military casualties. Are you daft?
    They are capable of manipulating them in order to test the weapon that guarantees world domination for a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    I do sympathize with these so called terrorist organisations. As far as I'm concerned, at least they are fighting for something they believe in, and for what they see to be the greater good. They're not fighting to line the pockets of statesmen, governors and oil barons. I wish we could the same about the people on this side of the planet.
    Hobbes talking about Al Qaeda and ISIS.

  3. #83
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Yours wasnt opinions too?
    Uh....no?

    ^ Frank, Downfall, p. 135–7.
    ^ The Final Months of the War With Japan. Part III, note 24 https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...001.html#rtoc7
    ^ Carroll, James (2007). House of War: The Pentagon and the Disastrous Rise of American Power. Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. p. 48. ISBN 0-618-87201-9.
    ^ Skates, John Ray (2000). The Invasion of Japan: Alternative to the Bomb. University of South Carolina Press. p. 79. ISBN 1570033544.

    Yes, clearly those are opinion articles.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Endre View Post
    Really?! USA bombed the shit out of Japan with a nuke. When did Iran do something even close to that with a nuke?!
    well, i supose if Iran pledges to put an immediate end to World War 3, i could see the similarities in your comment

  5. #85
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Uh....no?

    ^ Frank, Downfall, p. 135–7.
    ^ The Final Months of the War With Japan. Part III, note 24 https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...001.html#rtoc7
    ^ Carroll, James (2007). House of War: The Pentagon and the Disastrous Rise of American Power. Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. p. 48. ISBN 0-618-87201-9.
    ^ Skates, John Ray (2000). The Invasion of Japan: Alternative to the Bomb. University of South Carolina Press. p. 79. ISBN 1570033544.

    Yes, clearly those are opinion articles.
    Quoting the CIA in order to defend the actions of the USA? Really?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    I do sympathize with these so called terrorist organisations. As far as I'm concerned, at least they are fighting for something they believe in, and for what they see to be the greater good. They're not fighting to line the pockets of statesmen, governors and oil barons. I wish we could the same about the people on this side of the planet.
    Hobbes talking about Al Qaeda and ISIS.

  6. #86
    High Overlord Astronomy's Avatar
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    Using quotes of politicans in WW II for trying to approve a speculation is nothing but funny.

    If, a big IF, Iran uses nuclear weapons on US today and becomes the superpower in the world, believe me, every president in the world will congratulate Ahmadinejad and state that he saved more lives than he took by brining down the US who starts war everywhere by saying 'we are bringing democracy'.

    Its called politics for a reason.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Israel scares me the most, if they are over run they may just use the nukes and take the enemy with them.
    I seem to remember somewhere that this is called the Samson initiative.

  8. #88
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Quoting the CIA in order to defend the actions of the USA? Really?
    Attacking one source out of many. Now that's logical.

    Oh, I forgot one more.

    ^ Newman, Robert P. (2004). Enola Gay and the Court of History. Frontiers in Political Communication. 8. Peter Lang. p. 11. ISBN 0-8204-7457-6.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by nailbomb View Post
    well, i supose if Iran pledges to put an immediate end to World War 3, i could see the similarities in your comment
    Iran could claim that they prevented WW3, and saved millions of lives on both sides.


  10. #90
    The Patient Klingzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Yes, because the military isn't capable of estimating military casualties. Are you daft?
    ... are you really that naive? This is like, the basis of critical thinking. Of course they would conduct studies in their favor, of course they would hire historians to conduct research in their favor. Do you think they want someone to actually damage their worldwide image?

    They will of course always be objective, especially when it's right after a war in which you - depending on your point of view - actually comitted a crime against humanity itself and you are on the winning side. Who told you that history is something that can be viewed as objective? It's all (re)constructed in someone's favor.

  11. #91
    The Patient Dax Brae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    They are capable of manipulating them in order to test the weapon that guarantees world domination for a while.
    It could have, if we wanted it to. Right after the end of WW2, we were the only one with the bomb. We could have nuked Russia. We could have done anything. But we didn't.

    To claim the United States used the nuclear bomb to guarantee our domination of the world is ridiculous.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Here's another one:
    It doesn't matter how many figures, or estimates, or quotes you pull out of your ass. It doesn't change the fact that those estimates were primarily made by politicians or government bodies with a vested interest in these conflicts.

    There is no way the US or the UK would insinuate that the nukes were not necessary because it would expose them. The only reason the nukes were used was to save AMERICAN lives, and to gain general political/military superiority in Europe, and over Russia.

    At least cite independent sources, not US government sources. Not that it would really help your case anyway...

  13. #93
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperMechatronGamer View Post
    At least cite independent sources, not US government sources. Not that it would really help your case anyway...
    Pretty sure you missed them then. All but one source was independent.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  14. #94
    Mechagnome Sealed Shut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    How does a nuke save lives? Did you get a hold of that crystal ball yet? I wanna borrow it and see if your right.
    108,504 Americans died in the Pacific during ww2... and 248,316 wounded & missing.

    exactly how many more do you think would have died if we had invaded their MAINLAND??
    you don't think there would have been a hell of a lot more civilians die if we had a ground war in Japan?
    we didn't exactly give the same care back then about civilian loss as we do now.

  15. #95
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakvaile View Post
    It could have, if we wanted it to. Right after the end of WW2, we were the only one with the bomb. We could have nuked Russia. We could have done anything. But we didn't.

    To claim the United States used the nuclear bomb to guarantee our domination of the world is ridiculous.
    Stopped communism in its tracks didnt it? At least until the reds got nukes of their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    I do sympathize with these so called terrorist organisations. As far as I'm concerned, at least they are fighting for something they believe in, and for what they see to be the greater good. They're not fighting to line the pockets of statesmen, governors and oil barons. I wish we could the same about the people on this side of the planet.
    Hobbes talking about Al Qaeda and ISIS.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Zakvaile View Post
    It could have, if we wanted it to. Right after the end of WW2, we were the only one with the bomb. We could have nuked Russia. We could have done anything. But we didn't.

    To claim the United States used the nuclear bomb to guarantee our domination of the world is ridiculous.
    You don't have to bomb a superpower to bits in order to demonstrate military superiority.

    Their demonstration in Japan was a more than adequate demonstration and deterrent.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Many other dangerous countries have nukes, why not Iran?
    Uhh.....

    Just as an example to illustrate,
    10 countries out of 20 have nukes, 10/20, = 1/2
    6/20 countries have nukes, 3/10, = 1/3

    So....do you understand now? (Have you ever taken probability or data management or math?) 'X' +1 is greater than 'X', therefore the chance of 'X' is higher than before. Applying it to this situation means the risk of a nuke going off increases. It doesn't stay the same.

  18. #98
    The real issue with Iran and nukes is not that they themselves would use one openly. They would secretly sell them to places like Syria, North Korea etc. Combine that with the fact that China and to a lesser extent Russia, offer support to Iran, you have the makings of a disaster. Western forces attacking without prejudice anything nuclear related in Iran in order to contain it from getting into terrorist hands, or enemy states, and the blowback from China, Russia and others would be immediate.

    Plus the one thing Iran sympathizers like to gloss over is that they enrich Uranium to weapon grade levels. They aren't making power, or trying to get medical isotopes with that kind of enrichment. Its for weapons that they then lie about to the rest of the world. It's the same old song and dance. "We have the right to peaceful pursuit of power, but no UN inspectors are allowed to see our peaceful efforts, and if you try we will shut off a main oil supply".

    The middle east needs to first get along with its own neighbours and solve some internal civil conflicts (Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and so on), and work together to then do business with the rest of the modern world (North America, Europe, Asia). The Arab League really has a long way to go in terms of developing a firm united macro entity that can manage the region. Having nations built upon religious extremism clearly doesn't work, and countries like Eygpt and Turkey are beginning to wake up and become tired of constantly hating the rest of the world, instead of trying to work within it.

    TL;DR: Western world believes that the weapon grade uranium Iran is producing will be sold to it's enemies and they are concerned if they intervene to prevent this, China and Russia will be drawn into a conflict, disrupting already fragile economies and potentially leading to even more drastic measures.

  19. #99
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed Shut View Post
    we didn't exactly give the same care back then about civilian loss as we do now.
    Nobody did. Cities on both sides were routinely bombed.

    In fact, the firebombing of Tokyo (1943? I forget) killed over 100,000. More than the bomb at Hiroshima (immediately).
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  20. #100
    Iran ready to double its Uranium enrichment? oh yeah?well the usa bombed japan!!!! /trollface

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