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  1. #21
    Using the quote you copied, you do not own any software and the CD Key allows you access to the content they have. Your comparing apples to oranges.

  2. #22
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madderdin View Post
    Just google "computerworld EU court rules resale of used software licenses is legal -- even online"

    forbes com/sites/raywang/2012/07/04/news-analysis-usedsoft-vs-oracle-ruling-opens-up-monopolistic-practices-by-software-vendors

    "The Bottom Line For Buyers: In the EU You Own Your Software Free And Clear of Vendor Encumbrances"
    I know that one, but not much to do as it doesn't function with the whole part that the user signs that the product gets bound to -his- account. He signed himself to agree that it's on his Battle.net, so basicly he waves that law by signing an agreement to bind the product.
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  3. #23
    it appears the OP is correct, we know blizzard can remove 'licenses' from accounts so thats no problem (ie. if you bailed on your half of the bargain with the D3 / beta deal)

    Europe's highest court ruled on Tuesday that the trading of "used" software licenses is legal and that the author of such software cannot oppose any resale.

    The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is exhausted on its first sale, said the European Court of Justice (ECJ). This applies to downloaded software as well as that bought on CD or DVD. This ruling sets a precedent for trading of used software licenses throughout the European Union and could potentially impact ebooks and computer games as well.

    The court also ruled that any patches or upgrades made to the software through a service agreement also form part of the used software that can be sold on. However it said that the reseller must make the copy downloaded onto his own computer "unusable" at the time of resale.
    Last edited by strongyp; 2012-11-17 at 05:17 PM.

  4. #24
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strongyp View Post
    it appears the OP is correct.
    "Europe's highest court ruled on Tuesday that the trading of "used" software licenses is legal and that the author of such software cannot oppose any resale.

    The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is exhausted on its first sale, said the European Court of Justice (ECJ). This applies to downloaded software as well as that bought on CD or DVD. This ruling sets a precedent for trading of used software licenses throughout the European Union and could potentially impact ebooks and computer games as well.

    The court also ruled that any patches or upgrades made to the software through a service agreement also form part of the used software that can be sold on. However it said that the reseller must make the copy downloaded onto his own computer "unusable" at the time of resale. "
    Yes, but he still dismissed that right when he agreed to bind it to the battle.net account. And that whole case was made because people whined on Steam, but Blizzard it's different. They provided you with "Read Me" file when you add a game to your account, it's the buyers job to read said file/text.
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  5. #25
    The problem is With the Seam one you actually bought the software for the game, whereas MMO's you buy the right to access there content. They let you know it is for you, and ONLY you to use. You do not get to choose to give it away simply because you don't like it anymore. You AGREED when you attached it to your account that you wished to be the only one using it.

  6. #26
    Where should I write ? Just ticket , billing support , legal department or just call ? I think , I will have issues with call , cause I´m not native speaker and they can use it against me :/ One time they have already detach one CD key ( Diablo II + Lords ) , because I was moving it to another account . One account for WoW , second one for trash. I have not been playing already Diablo 3 for 3-4 months .... Last chance is ebay.de and sell it :/

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by mathewpn View Post
    would like to use it such as valuable gift.Cheers
    Quote Originally Posted by mathewpn View Post
    Last chance is ebay.de and sell it :/
    So apparently your intent was to re-sell the game and not give it away like you said in the beginning.
    You already asked them several times right? Stop wasting your&their time I'd say.

    edit: oh and, I'm pretty sure they have a german customer support, too, that you could call.

  8. #28
    Sorry, I'm not German and dont speak also German. I'm student without part time job and avarage wagies in my country are 500-600 minimum is 300 euro... I have already sold my first wow account and i dont have problem
    in my mind :-) ... If I will sell it , I will buy brand new gift :-) . I have to give gift .

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamanis View Post
    Using the quote you copied, you do not own any software and the CD Key allows you access to the content they have. Your comparing apples to oranges.
    Gonna reply with a YAWN.

    You are missing the point in this. The point is (yes, the thing you missed) - EULA is not above EU law. If you do not live in Europe, you might not understand it. In EU, we own the software. Doesnt matter what blizz wrote in their EULA or TOS or whatever license they attached to the product. EU law is above their license.
    Last edited by Madderdin; 2012-11-18 at 12:12 PM. Reason: typo

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Madderdin View Post
    Gonna reply with a YAWN.

    You are missing the point in this. The point is (yes, the thing you missed) - EULA is not above EU law. If you do not leave in Europe, you might not understand it. In EU, we own the software. Doesnt matter what blizz wrote in their EULA or TOS or whatever license they attached to the product. EU law is above their license.
    This is sadly what most people doesn't seem to get into their skull.

    That and the right of making backup copy of anything digital/programs/whatever you own in Finland regardless of what ToS (Most deny the right, never held up in court that denial) says. I've been also been able to return several Steam games thanks to finnish laws of return and refund policies that are in place in Finland.

    People just don't seem to understand that corporate bill that is written in a manner which doesn't hold the law of the region/country is not lawful in the first place.
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  11. #31
    let us know how that works out for you:P

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocassius View Post
    let us know how that works out for you:P
    It probably doesn't because the procedure has been intentionally made long and worth of lot of money and usually no one is willing to go through the effort..
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synche View Post
    So not knowing if you were to like the game, you went and bought the CE even though you can play the free trial.

    Or are you one of those "I played and beat the game but don't like it now" type of people who thinks they are entitled to a refund ?

    Blizzard will not let you resell the game, all they will do IF they agree to it would give you a refund.

    Way to lob insults at a guy... You are just the worst kind of person. What does it matter if he wants to get rid of the game? There is no reason, at all, to respond the way you did. Besides, people make impulse purchases all the time.


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  14. #34
    I don't see anyone mentioning this. You didn't buy a game. You bought a service - access to this game from your Battle.net account. As such, you can't resell this service. Can you resell your haircut after you went to a hairdresser? Can you resell your personal life insurance?

    And get used to it. Because EU requires that buying any physical product must allow purchaser to resell it - game companies no longer sell games, but services - access to their games, or rather to online platforms servicing those games.
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by procne View Post
    I don't see anyone mentioning this. You didn't buy a game. You bought a service - access to this game from your Battle.net account.
    As such, you can't resell this service. Can resell your haircut after you went to a hairdresser? Can you resell your personal life insurance?

    And get used to it. Because UE requires that buying any physical product must allow purchaser to resell it - game companies no longer sell games, but services - access to their games, or rather to online platforms servicing those games.
    When I bought Diablo 3 it said nothing of being a service, in fact word game was mentioned many times in both box and ads and thus I bought game. There was "Requires internet connection to play" sure, but it's not a sign of any services. Just because ToS says it's service after purchase (You don't sign anything at the moment of purchase) it doesn't make it so.

    It would be looked like service in NO finnish court, or even EU anymore.

    It's always sad to see people pushing away their rights as customer in favour of more and more draconian ways of controlling the product you've paid for.
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  16. #36
    Brewmaster DieFichte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madderdin View Post
    Gonna reply with a YAWN.

    You are missing the point in this. The point is (yes, the thing you missed) - EULA is not above EU law. If you do not leave in Europe, you might not understand it. In EU, we own the software. Doesnt matter what blizz wrote in their EULA or TOS or whatever license they attached to the product. EU law is above their license.
    Wow, you know, you are allowed to sell your used game license by the law, that's right. But you're not able too, not because blizzard are scumbags, but because their system works differently (and this without breaking a law). And last time I checked, their contract with you should be legal after you agreed to use their services. Now, if the EU court rules that blizzard have a service in place so you can actually sell the game licence, they sure will do that, but they don't have to at the moment. (and don't compare battle.net with Steam, there is no general ruling applying to "online services to play games" only a general ruling about "reselling of used software licenses")

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    When I bought Diablo 3 it said nothing of being a service, in fact word game was mentioned many times in both box and ads and thus I bought game. There was "Requires internet connection to play" sure, but it's not a sign of any services. Just because ToS says it's service after purchase (You don't sign anything at the moment of purchase) it doesn't make it so.
    If you read the ToS and disagree, then hit "NO" you are actually able to return the game, even a blizzard game. And you agreed about 5 times that your battle.net account belongs to blizzard, all digital property belongs to blizzard, that you can't disconnect your D3 game key from your battle.net account, that you are not allowed to sell or share your battle.net account etc etc before you could even play the game. I want to see the judge when you plead your case, after agreeing knowingly to all of that, saying "...but services?"
    If you don't agree with blizzard policies you just hit "NO" at one of the about 5 times you have a chance, then you don't have to use their services, can resell the games CD key as much as you want, or could even return the game, but you can't play it!
    Last edited by DieFichte; 2012-11-18 at 10:11 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by DieFichte View Post
    Wow, you know, you are allowed to sell your used game license by the law, that's right. But you're not able too, not because blizzard are scumbags, but because their system works differently (and this without breaking a law). And last time I checked, their contract with you should be legal after you agreed to use their services. Now, if the EU court rules that blizzard have a service in place so you can actually sell the game licence, they sure will do that, but they don't have to at the moment.
    They actually do, as quoted earliel in this thread already. But no one has dared to push it yet due to legal fees.
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  18. #38
    Brewmaster DieFichte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    They actually do, as quoted earliel in this thread already. But no one has dared to push it yet due to legal fees.
    Seems consumer protection groups are slow this time of the year then

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Madderdin View Post
    Gonna reply with a YAWN.

    You are missing the point in this. The point is (yes, the thing you missed) - EULA is not above EU law. If you do not leave in Europe, you might not understand it. In EU, we own the software. Doesnt matter what blizz wrote in their EULA or TOS or whatever license they attached to the product. EU law is above their license.
    Yes, EU law is above EULA or TOS but there isn't a law that says you can trade a license. The EU high court just said that you can trade used software as in give the data files to another person but you can't trade a user license. E.g. you can sell your AutoCAD CD or USB stick but you need also a user license and you can't sell that to anyone else because it's bound to you.

    A lot of people just read the quoted sentences but don't know all the rest. A lot of people say it was all about Steam but that's wrong. Somebody tried to sell some PCs with AutoCAD installed (the linceses are worth about 30k €) because they went bankrupt and Autodesk said they are not allowed to sell these PCs because AutoCAD is installed and they don't own the data files. EU high court said they can sell the PCs but not the license because it's bound to the company. As for Steam or Windows you're allowed to sell the PC with it installed but the Steam account is bound to you so another person isn't allowed to use it but Windows is bound to the PC so that whoever buys the PC is allowed to use it.

    So you can sell your CE box with the DVD and all but the license acquired by entering the CD-Key is bound to you. Blizzard can choose to unbound it or not but they aren't forced to do so and don't break any EU law when they don't do it.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    It's always sad to see people pushing away their rights as customer in favour of more and more draconian ways of controlling the product you've paid for.
    It's not pushing away rights. It's just how game companies sell their games - as an access to a service and not a game itself anymore.
    I'm not favouring those "draconian ways of controlling products", but I'm not going to start to sue game companies when law is on their side. No, I simply refuse to buy Ubisoft games until they remove DRM, I refuse to buy EA games as long as they are tied to Origin and I haven't bought Diablo 3.
    If you don't like some practices then you don't make a purchase, instead of making purchase and then complaining

    Fortunately, most indie games come with no DRMs.
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

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