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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Well maybe I need to make a video. The shield asorbs literally 99% of all damage. My attacks do 1...2..2...4...5..6. If the Hunt Rifts were not meant to be done in a raid maybe Trion should advertise that. This is clearly one of the more bad anti-zerging mechanics ever put into this game so far.

    You never saw this type of crap in Raid rifts or expert rifts and it worked just fine. Only time any damage is done to the Herald in a 20man raid is the 2 seconds that the shield is down before it goes right back up.

    If this is a issue with zerging, then scale the boss off the amount of people int he raid. I know they have the ability to do this, but this current method is nothing short of stupid.

    Outside of that one annoying thing the rest of the expansion is pretty cool
    Yes, that is the damage it is showing you doing, BUT LOOK AT THE DAMN SHIELD ITSELF IT GOES DOWN AS YOU DAMAGE. It says ABSORB, because the shield is Absorbing the damage instead of the boss. It's not that they were not meant to be done it a raid, it's that they scale to whatever size group is doing them.

    You didn't see that type of "crap" in Raid Rifts or Expert Rifts because those were designed for a specific sized group. Experts Rifts were for a group of 5, Raid Rifts for a group of 10. Everyone trivialized the content by taking more than that though. Hunt Rifts SCALE to the size of the group. The difficulty stays the same if there is 1 person or 100 there. The shield makes is take just as long for 100 people to kill it as 1 would solo. This way you cannot trivialize the content by bringing 2-4 times the number of people the content was designed for. It is designed for however many you bring.

    IT DOES SCALE. That is the exact point of the shield you complain about, then say it needs to scale.

    Learn to understand what the mechanics are and what they are doing before you go complaining and calling the devs dumb.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Yes, that is the damage it is showing you doing, BUT LOOK AT THE DAMN SHIELD ITSELF IT GOES DOWN AS YOU DAMAGE. It says ABSORB, because the shield is Absorbing the damage instead of the boss. It's not that they were not meant to be done it a raid, it's that they scale to whatever size group is doing them.

    You didn't see that type of "crap" in Raid Rifts or Expert Rifts because those were designed for a specific sized group. Experts Rifts were for a group of 5, Raid Rifts for a group of 10. Everyone trivialized the content by taking more than that though. Hunt Rifts SCALE to the size of the group. The difficulty stays the same if there is 1 person or 100 there. The shield makes is take just as long for 100 people to kill it as 1 would solo. This way you cannot trivialize the content by bringing 2-4 times the number of people the content was designed for. It is designed for however many you bring.

    IT DOES SCALE. That is the exact point of the shield you complain about, then say it needs to scale.

    Learn to understand what the mechanics are and what they are doing before you go complaining and calling the devs dumb.
    That is all great, but the ability descriptions says "Shield absorbs health from surrounding players". So in no way shape or form does this shield work how you just described. It is a cheese mechanic some prick came up with to keep people from downing the boss before some preset time some dev decided on before the expansion released.

    I would rather them instance hunt rifts verses this current silliness. To say people zerged raid rifts is a straw man argument not based in reality. I got 700+ hours played in this game since Beta and I have never seen a raid rift zerged. It simply has not happened.

    This ability is the ultimate anti melee skill to essentially kill the need for melee to even be part of the group. It has what seems to be a range of 30+ meters and the further away the players are the less the buff is.

    The fire bosses have a pro melee ability that requires you to stack on the boss to do damage.
    Last edited by Puremallace; 2012-11-18 at 05:47 PM.
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  3. #23
    I would agree that Raid Rifts weren't really zerged. It was far more common people hit those RRs with a group of 20 than 10 or 5. So it's not fair to claim RRs were zerged in way hunt rifts are. RRs actually had mechanics that prevented a lot of that too.

    It was really Trion's own fault for not continuing to make RRs hard because "omg fire drr" and "phase 3 earth drr t1 impossiburr!".

    That said, I don't have a problem with the shielding mechci. Because realistically speaking, few games are going to have open world bosses capable of withstanding a zerg. Eq and FF11 were a long time ago in the MMO psyche.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-11-18 at 06:02 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    "Shield absorbs health from surrounding players"
    Pertinent part right there. More players, more shield. Scaling mechanic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    To say people zerged raid rifts is a straw man argument not based in reality. I got 700+ hours played in this game since Beta and I have never seen a raid rift zerged. It simply has not happened.
    Raid Rifts were designed to be 10-man content, everyone I ever ran was a full 20 man raid.

    I never said they were "zerged." I just said trivialized.
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  5. #25
    I was a big supporter of the idea when first tier of RRs were placed in the game that anyone outside of the group which opened the RR should not be able to harm the mobs within. Like attacks should do 0 damage if you are not keyed to the opener of the XR/RR.

    The XR/RRs should be keyed to person with the lure + group.

    Experts 10m, Raids 20m.

    Just have 3 tiers:

    Raids 10 & 20 = 1st tier gear
    Master Modes & RRs = 2nd tier
    Expert Dungeon & Rifts= 3rd tier

    IA/Hunt Rifts/Chronicles/Events = ISS/ES sources

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Pertinent part right there. More players, more shield. Scaling mechanic.



    Raid Rifts were designed to be 10-man content, everyone I ever ran was a full 20 man raid.

    I never said they were "zerged." I just said trivialized.
    So under this theory here is how the math lines up.

    Buff was at 11-14. Average dps health is about 6-7k with the tank at 18-22. So you take 7,000(max health of dps) * 13 (buff number I was seeing) = 91,000, then add in the tank health to get 113,000.

    So theory to drop the shield before the 20seconds is up is to dps down 113,000? It is a pretty crappy mechanic in my book compared to simply scaling the bosses health higher.

    I am liking dimensions btw
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  7. #27
    Brewmaster
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    At least wait a month if you want reliable reviews for a MMO. MMO's are ever changing, and I want to bitch slap those who start putting out reviews the first few days. A preview or maybe a "Thoughts and opinions so far" is ok, but not a whole review.

  8. #28
    Dreadlord
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    I think the massive serverqueues speak for themselves.

  9. #29
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    I'm glad I got some footage of hunt rifts with at least 20 people from <Terrible Idea> going back and forth with them.... should help cull some of these arguments. :P
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by theceure View Post
    Not that it matters either way but I visit IGN on a regular basis because my wife and I are both avid "gamers" and we read up on games during work downtime. Over the last few days there has been nothing on the site about Rift or the Storm Legion release. I have seen multiple articles about WoW D3 of course the beloved GW2. I have even seen at least 2 articles about SWTOR going free to play but nothing at all about imo THE ONLY GAME THAT MATTERS :P Shouldn't there at least be a review in progress going on or something??!?!? Do they even know?!?!? Do they hate??!?!?! This game deserves more publicity!!! The people need to know they are playing the WRONG GAME if its not RIFT!!!!
    I think everyone's too busy playing. On Blightweald EU, there are 30~40 people in the guild on each night at the moment. I don't think the Server Shard Status' are correct either as there are a lot of people in the world - either that or they've really upped the server capacities.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I was a big supporter of the idea when first tier of RRs were placed in the game that anyone outside of the group which opened the RR should not be able to harm the mobs within. Like attacks should do 0 damage if you are not keyed to the opener of the XR/RR.

    The XR/RRs should be keyed to person with the lure + group.

    Experts 10m, Raids 20m.

    Just have 3 tiers:

    Raids 10 & 20 = 1st tier gear
    Master Modes & RRs = 2nd tier
    Expert Dungeon & Rifts= 3rd tier

    IA/Hunt Rifts/Chronicles/Events = ISS/ES sources
    And the problem with this is you can still bring 20 people to a 10-man. They are in the same group right?

    Currently, I haven't looked at it too closely, but Great Hunt's do require a lesser number of people. Here is how it is currently laid out.

    Hunt Rift - Soloable. More people show up, mechanics activate to make it "harder"
    Great Hunt I - Designed for a duo at minimum. More show up, scales
    Great Hunt II - Designed for 5 People. More show up it scales.
    Great Hunt III - I'm not sure, have not looked this far ahead, but I am guessing 10
    Great Hunt IV - ????

    There are 6 Great Hunts per Tier and 4 Tiers of them.

    There is also a Daily Raid Rift and lures for these. They are separate from the Great Hunts and I do not know much about them, yet.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 09:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    So under this theory here is how the math lines up.

    Buff was at 11-14. Average dps health is about 6-7k with the tank at 18-22. So you take 7,000(max health of dps) * 13 (buff number I was seeing) = 91,000, then add in the tank health to get 113,000.

    So theory to drop the shield before the 20seconds is up is to dps down 113,000? It is a pretty crappy mechanic in my book compared to simply scaling the bosses health higher.

    I am liking dimensions btw
    Math aside, more people, more health the shield has, yes. If you "simply scale the bosses health higher" and do not have a mechanic that reacts to what is there every 10-20 seconds then here is what will happen. Tank shows with one DPSer, opens Rift. Clears first stage, gets boss to spawn. Game determines HP based on 2 people there. Tank picks up boss and tanks, DPSer drops guild rally banner, 20 people show up, tag the boss and kill it in seconds and all get credit. Rinse, repeat.

    By making it reactive(not ReActive) it adjusts on the fly to the number of people present. 80 People in ranges, everyone's DPS is cut back to compensate.

    Sure, take the easy way out and "imply scaling the bosses health higher." Leave the game open to exploits. I have the shard first 60 in my guild, he spent a good portion of time the first day(maybe second, don't remember, last week is a blur) doing Hunt Rifts for a good 4+ hours or so. Now, if the number of Hunt Rifts he did in that time was 10x because they were easily exploitable, how much more XP you think he'd have gotten and how much faster you think he'd have been 60? How much faster do you think I could have gotten to 60 with such an easily exploitable feature put in.

    It must be reactive, it must be dynamic and change as people show up. It is not a dumb mechanic, it is smart. You are just not smart enough to understand it and would rather jump around like an idiot and then complain about it. Also, in game, you accused me of exploiting my way to 60. You then come and offer "soultions" to "problems" that would actually make what you accuse people of possible.

    Also, congratulations for completely derailing another thread. This was about reviews, not Hunt Rift mechanics.
    Last edited by Lathais; 2012-11-19 at 03:57 PM.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    And the problem with this is you can still bring 20 people to a 10-man. They are in the same group right?
    Simple solution is make RRs 20 man, not 10.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Simple solution is make RRs 20 man, not 10.
    and what about 5-man Expert Rifts that you could bring 20 too?

    You want less variety?

    This is what is awesome about the Hunt Rifts. They offer a variety of different group sizes, starting with solo working up to 10/20 man. Anywhere along the way you can take more and it scales appropriately. Why limit content to -only- 20 man content when you can make it work well for anywhere from 5 to 200?
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    and what about 5-man Expert Rifts that you could bring 20 too?
    Yes.

    You want less variety?
    I want more meaningful stuff than the copy/pasta that are hunt rifts.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Yes.

    I want more meaningful stuff than the copy/pasta that are hunt rifts.
    Meaningful stuff as in amazing instances and raids? Awesome Zone Events that also scale? Raid Rifts, of which there ARE 3/4 in the expansion?

    There is plenty. The Hunt Rifts are amazing for easier World Content to step up into those things and a whole lot of players are having a lot of fun with them. This weekend I saw at least 3 seperate Hunt Rift groups going at once, all full 20 players. 1 in Pelladane, 1 in Easter Holdings and 1 in Ardent Domain. All staying full and rotating players in and out for hours. I don't understand the negativity some people have towards them when they offer variety and a lot of people are enjoying them. If it is not for you, that's fine, don't do them. But they don't need to be changed so we have less options on what to do.
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  16. #36
    Having 10 and 20 raids doesn't excuse the lackluster hunt rifts. Also people will do the most boring/grindy stuff if it was a means to an end because, well, this is an MMO after all. The only measure of progression is based on stat gain.

    I stand by my assertion: hunt rifts are lame. RR/XRs were better in concept, but sorta forgotten development wise.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Having 10 and 20 raids doesn't excuse the lackluster hunt rifts. Also people will do the most boring/grindy stuff if it was a means to an end because, well, this is an MMO after all. The only measure of progression is based on stat gain.

    I stand by my assertion: hunt rifts are lame. RR/XRs were better in concept, but sorta forgotten development wise.
    Ok, let's take a step backwards in the genre and design content for one type of player. Let's make all open world content require 10 or 20 people, no more, no less. We'll instance off the zones so the when there are world events or rifts only 10 or 20 people can be there, making the world feel emptier. If you have less than that, screw you, we don't make content for you.

    BTW, I have mentioned 2-3 times in this thread, There Are RR in SL. There are 3-4(can't remember) Lures you can buy for true Raid Rifts, not related to the Great Hunt Rifts, from one of the planar goods vendors. There is also a Daily Raid Rift quest available in the corner near the Hunt Rift vendors for a non Hunt Rift Raid. I don't see how that makes it forgotten development wise.

    Basically, Experts were lame. People ran them with 20 people when it was designed for 5. That trivializes content. Why spend time carefully planning an encounter and tuning it for 5 players when it's just gonna get done by 20. "Forgotten development wise?" No, redesigned. In between "Expert"(Hunt) Rifts and Raid Rifts(which exist, though you keep saying do not) there is now another step. Great Hunt Rifts, which I know very little about. Have you run them yet?
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Ok, let's take a step backwards in the genre and design content for one type of player. Let's make all open world content require 10 or 20 people, no more, no less. We'll instance off the zones so the when there are world events or rifts only 10 or 20 people can be there, making the world feel emptier. If you have less than that, screw you, we don't make content for you.
    It doesn't have to be either/or. RRs/XRs could be made to scale within reason.

    I said very clearly I prefer the concept of RRs/Xrs over hunt rifts. The implementation of RRs/Xrs was lacking and could have been improved. But Trion really didn't do a good job at either of those in my opinion.

    Actual open world rift raids w/ tactics and strategies is more preferable than mindless, repetitive zergs-a-thons. I fail to see how hunt rifts are anymore progressive than RRs/XRs. And yes I do play MMOs with a role trinity specifically so I can play content designed for an organized group.

    If and when I want mass open world combat without regard to hard role enforcement and cooperation I am likely to play Guild Wars 2 or Raiderz. Not Rift.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    It doesn't have to be either/or. RRs/XRs could be made to scale within reason.

    I said very clearly I prefer the concept of RRs/Xrs over hunt rifts. The implementation of RRs/Xrs was lacking and could have been improved. But Trion really didn't do a good job at either of those in my opinion.

    Actual open world rift raids w/ tactics and strategies is more preferable than mindless, repetitive zergs-a-thons. I fail to see how hunt rifts are anymore progressive than RRs/XRs. And yes I do play MMOs with a role trinity specifically so I can play content designed for an organized group.

    If and when I want mass open world combat without regard to hard role enforcement and cooperation I am likely to play Guild Wars 2 or Raiderz. Not Rift.
    And I againask you done any Great Hunt Rifts to see how they compare to Expert Rifts yet? Great Hunt Rank IV's? Or are you just assuming they are the same as Hunt Rifts.

    You also keep ignoring the fact that there are indeed Raid Rifts and a Daily Raid Rift quest.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Having 10 and 20 raids doesn't excuse the lackluster hunt rifts. Also people will do the most boring/grindy stuff if it was a means to an end because, well, this is an MMO after all. The only measure of progression is based on stat gain.

    I stand by my assertion: hunt rifts are lame. RR/XRs were better in concept, but sorta forgotten development wise.
    I gotta admit, I've only seen the first tier of Hunt Rifts. They are pretty formulaic, and people really don't understand that you need to stop DPS when the reactive shield goes up, which is annoying.

    However, as a system, I think that Hunt Rifts are a more promising concept than RR/XRs. They're simply more extensible - new tiers can be more easily added, provided the risk/reward situation levels out. There is a tradeoff though, at least at the lower tiers, with less story being told. It's more of a "and you use something to pull some powerful dude out of his bathtub and beat him up." Kinda makes me feel like a bully...

    I'm hopeful about this system, and will reserve my judgement for the next couple months, see how it all plays out.

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