Where are the reviews for Storm Legion?

[Tarien]

Sorry, but no. It is no less than point blank absurdity to claim one needs to complete all content before passing opinion on enjoyment and preference for one mode over the other.

I am not going to care about rank 10 if rank 1 was boring me to tears. Ergo: I feel hunt rifts are lame.

So basically you're going to rubbish an entire feature just because the first 5% isn't super duper amazing, and when anyone tells you that it's ridiculous to expect the entry level to be the best part of a tiered feature and calls you out when you're just making stuff up to back up your ridiculous opinion you're going to infract them. Very big of you, that's why you were given moderator privileges

I don't judge raids by normal dungeons even though they are the first step in instanced PvE progression, I haven't judged Hunt rifts by the first tier and it turns out I was right not to do so. Maybe one day you'll find some patience and be a bit wiser and less judgmental.

Not only are mods allowed to have opinions (popular or unpopular, we're people too you know), but taking jabs at anyone, mods or players, isn't acceptable. And FYI, mods only use mod powers in forums they actively moderate, so let's not start this "POWER HUNGRY TYRANTS!" nonsense. -Edge

[Khelendros]

Having 10 and 20 raids doesn't excuse the lackluster hunt rifts. Also people will do the most boring/grindy stuff if it was a means to an end because, well, this is an MMO after all. The only measure of progression is based on stat gain.

I stand by my assertion: hunt rifts are lame. RR/XRs were better in concept, but sorta forgotten development wise.

Maybe you should wait till you see the other tiers before you judge them. Hint: They change drastically as you progress through the tiers.

Sorry, but no. It is no less than point blank absurdity to claim one needs to complete all content before passing opinion on enjoyment and preference for one mode over the other.

Hunt rifts being back loaded actually worsens my opinion of hunt rifts. No part should be "yanwsville" before being interesting in my point of view.

My stance is very clear: I found hunt rifts boring and prefer RRs/XRs as a gameplay mode.

Ah ok so you can judge raiding based on 5 man dungeons? Cause thats what you are saying with this statement. Everyone is telling you that you are wrong but you don't seem to want to admit it.

And I can actually speak to this because I HAVE done 3 of the Great Hunts on beta. The last day you could auto level to 60 and I had cleared Tier 1 on my rogue. So I got about 6 people together and we did 3 in Ashora. They are nothing like the first tier of hunt rifts.

Honestly your argument is so ridiculous I don't know where to begin. Its akin to judging Rift's game entirity based on the first 10 levels. Sure some people do that. But what do we say about those people?

There are 3 Raid Rifts btw, 2 in Ashora and 1 in Steppes of Infinity. I did one of them, well tried. We went after it with 8 and got owned badly.

[Lathais]

Sorry, but no. It is no less than point blank absurdity to claim one needs to complete all content before passing opinion on enjoyment and preference for one mode over the other.

Hunt rifts being back loaded actually worsens my opinion of hunt rifts. No part should be "yanwsville" before being interesting in my point of view.

My stance is very clear: I found hunt rifts boring and prefer RRs/XRs as a gameplay mode.


What am I failing to "get" here pray tell?

That some players find hunt rifts enjoyable? Noted and irrelevant to my comments on the hunt rifts boring me.

That hunt rifts scale? Also, noted. Not relevant to my preference for RRs/XRs.

Actually, I do.

Have expressed a long standing distaste for extended intermediary content, dailies, filler content, multiple difficulty modes, the very concept of leveling, bimodal gameplay, etc, etc.

If you look through my recent post history this last weekend it would reveal I am consistent in expressing disdain for gameplay that starts off dull [subjective] before getting to the "good part" [subjective redux]. See: My comments on GW2's recent multi-phase event.

I am not going to care about rank 10 if rank 1 was boring me to tears. Ergo: I feel hunt rifts are lame.

I think I am starting to get it now. You want the end-game, last tier stuff just handed to you. You want to be able to play it, without having gone through all the other channels all the other players had too. You dislike progression and just want the end. You want to start off as president of the company, instead of starting off working in the warehouse and earning your way up.

Sounds like progression based, theme-park MMOs may not be for you.

[Fencers]

So basically you're going to rubbish an entire feature just because the first 5% isn't super duper amazing, and when anyone tells you that it's ridiculous to expect the entry level to be the best part of a tiered feature and calls you out when you're just making stuff up to back up your ridiculous opinion you're going to infract them.

Excuse me?

What stuff have I "made up"? I think you are behaving very poorly. However, infractions are given by the particular mods of a forum. If you are unhappy send a PM to an admin. But this type of attitude being displayed is likely why you were infracted.

There is nothing more to say here that I haven't already said: In my opinion, I preferred RRs/XRs over hunt rifts and do not enjoy the hunt rifts as a concept.

That opinion based on personal enjoyment is valid. Regardless of your own personal judgement.

Maybe you should wait till you see the other tiers before you judge them. Hint: They change drastically as you progress through the tiers.

Doesn't matter.

I didn't enjoy the concept very much. The desire to "progress" through the hunt rifts is solely based on what advantage they give later on. Not a desire of enjoyment.

I would still hold preference for RRs/XRs by comparison to hunt rifts. The former begin a more engaging concept for me.

Ah ok so you can judge raiding based on 5 man dungeons? Cause thats what you are saying with this statement. Everyone is telling you that you are wrong but you don't seem to want to admit it.

Dungeons are a different concept from raids. One can say they dislike dungeons in Rift based on ITn though. That would be totally reasonable. Just as one can say they don't enjoy raiding in Rift without having slogged through them all.

To some degree you can even extend that to raids, yes. As it is possible for a player to simply not like the style of encounter design in ITn and be put off as to not have any interest in Infernal Dawn. Such a player wouldn't need to grind his way up to and complete IDConqLOLz to say he didn't enjoy Rift's instanced design either.

There is no right or wrong in this argument. Defense of the game on those grounds is lowly fanaticism. Enjoyment is personal. I didn't/don't enjoy a certain aspect of the game. Boo hoo.

Its akin to judging Rift's game entirety based on the first 10 levels. Sure some people do that.

And those people would be no less wrong if they didn't enjoy presented gameplay in those 10 levels for whatever reason.

But what do we say about those people?

That they are entitled to this opinion.

There are 3 Raid Rifts btw

I am aware there are still RRs/XRs available. I merely said I prefer that type of gameplay over hunt rifts. RRs/XRs really don't have much to do with hunt rifts aside from the fact I think they are a cool concept. Unlike hunt rifts.

This is again, a matter of preference.

You dislike progression and just want the end.

I dislike needlessly extended progression.

I do want the "end" content immediately though. Totally pointless to force me to 'level up' [general phrasing] to do the mode of content I am interested in & was previously doing. And I do welcome abolition of many concepts in linear theme park MMO- character levels, artificially gated content, gear progression, etc.

[Lathais]

I do want the "end" content immediately though

entitled, i want it now, attitudes have no place in progression based MMOs. I suppose you want to raid without having the appropriate Hit as well. Would prefer if the initial bosses in raids were not gear checks so you could just jump in and slay the last boss and have all the drops he gives in one go through.

This is where removing the initial levels and beginning tiers of things leads. It is there to foster progression and gradual improvement. If the end level were just handed to us, that would be no fun. It's the journey, the friends you meet along the way, the time spent doing it whilst BSing on vent, not the destination that matters.

[Redblade]

And I do welcome abolition of many concepts in linear theme park MMO- character levels, artificially gated content, gear progression, etc.

So what's left if you do?

If you remove leveling then any re-playability with alts goes out the window. Removing gear progression removes any real need to run content more than once hence would make dungeons and raids to expensive to produce. Removing artificially gated content as in the need to run normals before experts to eventually do raids would remove the need for anything but raids, which we already made to expensive to make.

What you seem to suggest would make for a very flat world without dungeons and raids with no real end-game reward to pursue, I might be misunderstanding but I fail to see what the goal of playing your suggested game would be, besides a overly fancy chat room with Barbie dress up.

[theWocky]

I dislike needlessly extended progression.

I do want the "end" content immediately though. Totally pointless to force me to 'level up' [general phrasing] to do the mode of content I am interested in & was previously doing. And I do welcome abolition of many concepts in linear theme park MMO- character levels, artificially gated content, gear progression, etc.

Look, I think it's absolutely awesome that they've made the game world bigger.

However, I can see where you're coming from and I wonder why a PvE MMO company doesn't take the bait and just add 40 dungeons to one expansion where loot only drops off the last boss, so you need to complete to get loot - and also do the dungeons in the form of challenge modes with a leader-board. That would be pretty cool.

After playing GW2, I think the "level up process" is just silly - that is, in my opinion, a very confused mmo that should have just been an rpg. What's the point of being 80 when you get downscaled to lower zones? Don't get me wrong - I got my money's worth out of it, but I think it's confused.

So, why can't an mmo company just ADD huge RAID content in the form of many, many more dungeons and raids in the expansion? That would be cool and entirely acceptable for a dungeon.

[Fencers]

Quite off topic now;

So what's left if you do?

Content that isn't artificially gated.

If you remove leveling then any re-playability with alts goes out the window.

Not necessarily. That's an assumption based on a certain model of design.

Playing an "alt" is an act to experience a different set of gameplay mechanics within a given class. Not necessarily to "level up". For those whom it is about "leveling up" the alt part is superfluous- the gameplay hook is the level/adventure process. Not the alt itself.

Removing gear progression removes any real need to run content more than once

Not necessarily. That's an assumption based on a certain model of design.

One can simply run the content for pure enjoyment &/or interest.

Removing artificially gated content as in the need to run normals before experts to eventually do raids would remove the need for anything but raids, which we already made to expensive to make.

Or stagger difficultly based on execution not gear checks or essentially drawn out keying.

Raids aren't cheaper to produce because they hand out gear. Or have preliminary steps. Progression can happen using a different model of gating and one not arbitrarily set by mechanics such as hit or expertise.

What you seem to suggest would make for a very flat world without dungeons and raids with no real end-game reward to pursue

I sorta am against "endgame" rewards that are vertical progression based. Horizontal progression can be made to be engaging and rewarding for the sake of playing well made content.

I suppose you want to raid without having the appropriate Hit as well.

Yes.

Would prefer if the initial bosses in raids were not gear checks

Yes.

so you could just jump in and slay the last boss

Or more

have all the drops he gives in one go through.

I don't even like drops. Ideally, I prefer loot to be entirely currency based.

However, I can see where you're coming from and I wonder why a PvE MMO company doesn't take the bait

We got it in bits and pieces so far- Secret World, Guild Wars, Fallen Earth, Asheron's Call, etc. Eventually a dev will unify many of these concepts, refine them &/or contextualize in a different manner.

Raid content doesn't by any rule have to be bimodal either, just an fyi.

[Puremallace]

Fencers you want Archage. Look up a Sandbox. Themepark's are not your thing, but the sandbox market is kind of bad.Go over to www.mmorpg.com <--whole bunch of people who 100% agree with everything you typed and think themeparks were made by the devil

My main issue with Rift is Atrius is a shitty dev who does not understand wtf he is doing. Constant nerfs since 1.11 and exploit specs allowed to even make it to live prove either Atrius is shitty or they need to fire their entire QA department.

Do what they did with Gersch and assign him to something else and keep him away from class development. There is zero logic behind what is happening with the warrior class right now in Rift making the game a pretty shitty experience and seriously making me regret getting into a year sub.

This fiasco has reminded me why I never sub to a game for more then a month. If you want to know why everyone has nothing, but praise for Trion and Rift, but refuses to play the game look no further then the class balance issues with warriors right now.

I predicted this before SL even launched that if Trion got nerf happy then they would lose subs over it. This dev has been shooting themselves in the foot since day 1 with dumb shit and not listening to posted information.

Look at how Kevrick communicates and handles mage issues, then look at what Atrius does. That should be all that is needed.

http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ou-kervik.html

^ thank you thread to how well Kevrick handled mages and restructured class working with the player base

http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...y-tempest.html

^23 pages and 16,000 views of pissed off warriors calling Atrius an idiot

http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-disabled.html

^ Trion shitting on warriors even more telling us tough shit you have to wait

[Antipathy]

Guys, WTH, why does anyone care what someone prefers so much? RR/XR or Hunt, Why you give a fuq?

Live and Let live.

Expansion Rocks, agree that the reward is small for the effort at the later levels, and this can be an issue. I've been traveling a lot and in the limited time I've had to play I've not been able to accomplish much in terms of leveling but the journey has been epic so far.

Just wanted to add that the music is incredible, no, seriously, like epic proportions incredible, and I love how the music from some zones weaves into others and you can hear hints of other zone songs cropping up every so often.

[Deleted]

OH MY GOD Seratos music OH MY GOD Tempest bay music OH MY GOD ORGASM!

[Redblade]

Content that isn't artificially gated.

You seem to equate linear progression with artificial gating, true artificial gating is what Blizzard did with MoP raids, simply make them unavailable even though they are in game and ready to go.

Not necessarily. That's an assumption based on a certain model of design.

Playing an "alt" is an act to experience a different set of gameplay mechanics within a given class. Not necessarily to "level up". For those whom it is about "leveling up" the alt part is superfluous- the gameplay hook is the level/adventure process. Not the alt itself.

Not necessarily. That's an assumption based on a certain model of design.

One can simply run the content for pure enjoyment &/or interest.

What design would that be then?

Take a game like Rift or WoW and remove the linear gear progression, do you honestly think people would run the same dungeons and raids over and over? What meaningful content would you replace it with and how would it progress your character, the closest I get to what you are speaking of is actually EvE-Online and it's skill training system, it's very PvP centric though with heavy loss on death and can't really be translated to theme park MMO environment.

Or stagger difficultly based on execution not gear checks or essentially drawn out keying.

Raids aren't cheaper to produce because they hand out gear. Or have preliminary steps. Progression can happen using a different model of gating and one not arbitrarily set by mechanics such as hit or expertise.

This was true 5-10 years ago, encounters these days are about as complex as they can be without alienating 95% of it's player base, gear is just a tool for progression, some need less tools to get the job done, some need more, this helps make the end game function for a larger group as the very best will use less gear and clear it earlier while the lesser skilled needs to gear up more to beat the encounters, the losing party is really the bets of the best as they get the least amount of, to them, useful content.

I sorta am against "endgame" rewards that are vertical progression based. Horizontal progression can be made to be engaging and rewarding for the sake of playing well made content.

This is where I think the general player would disagree, sure you enjoy it once for being well made but to go back for more there has to be a carrot, the only real exception to this would be PvP but even then it has to be ranked or have actual loss attached to it like EvE (which instead gives you the need to "grind" currency to replace said loss).


Personally I'd welcome a level less world though as it makes for a better experience game wise, the leveling would have to be replaced with some other progression based content though and without changing the formula completely I don't see it happening. Ineresting thought on the subject that I had a while back would be to use a Diablo like loot system in a MMO like WoW without any leveling, this would make all content useful and you could do any raid you felt like for the day, this doesn't remove gear progression though, sadly don't think the gear perfection end-game would draw enough people.

[Fencers]

Fencers you want Archage.

I been tracking it for a while. Fully aware of Archeage.

Themepark's are not your thing, but the sandbox market is kind of bad.Go over to www.mmorpg.com <--whole bunch of people who 100% agree with everything you typed and think themeparks were made by the devil

I don't think theme parks were made by the devil. LOL

Theme parks are fine as a type of gameplay model. Though I naturally believe some elements of the genre can stand to be re-done, improved, refined, etc in more mainstream MMOs. Theme park MMOs currently and in past have done so. It's not like theme parks are an unchanging island of gameplay. There is a lot of iteration from EQ to modern stuff*.

Kinda off-topic but that one guy asked so I obliged to answer him.

*this is also true of most video game genres. it's just due to the nature of computer game development.

My main issue with Rift is Atrius is a shitty dev

Ugh, so bad.

Willing to swap Atrius for the cleric dev.

[Edge-]

Ugh, so bad.

Willing to swap Atrius for the cleric dev.

Leave my class dev alone!

[Tarien]

Excuse me?

What stuff have I "made up"?

The idea that you have any clue what you're talking about is complete make believe imo:

I only did the I-VI or whatever. That was enough to sour the idea.

I didn't buy any lure. I just joined with the others in the guild doing them. So forgive me if I was incorrect on the exact numbering of them. Whatever.

You've not looked into them enough to even figure out how they work, you're unaware of their naming conventions or the storyline quest and rep faction that goes with them. You've dipped a toe in for the briefest of moments and now and throwing your opinion around and wondering why people who've actually tried them in some detail are telling you you're wrong and prematurely judging a potentially great system.

I think you are behaving very poorly. However, infractions are given by the particular mods of a forum. If you are unhappy send a PM to an admin. But this type of attitude being displayed is likely why you were infracted.

I think you are behaving poorly, despite all the opposition and evidence to the contrary you want to sit here and tell people with more experience that they are wrong? And I'm sure you had nothing to do with the infraction...

[Fencers]

You've not looked into them enough to even figure out how they work, you're unaware of their naming conventions or the storyline quest and rep faction that goes with them.

Correct. I don't usually care about exact names and stuff in games.

In fact, I was just talking about ZG/ZA and all those naming conventions in WoW this morning. And how they were meaningless to me to the point of confusion. They were all the "dungeon with the mummies" / "dungeons with the werewovles" / "dungeon with trolls" / etc. To wit.

This even extends to skills. I don't really care to remember the exact name of the on block reactive. I call them all 'revenge' off-hand from WoW to SWTOR to Rift.

Sorry. I will try to retain all the exact naming conventions in the future to satisfy. Actually I won't, like at all.

throwing your opinion around and wondering why people who've actually tried them in some detail are telling you you're wrong

Again, the problem is I can not be wrong on a matter of enjoyment.

"I think this is dull" is a purely subjective & personal opinion. There is no right or wrong w/r/t such a statement. Suggestion otherwise is absurdity.

I think you are behaving poorly, despite all the opposition and evidence to the contrary

Contrary to what?

To my enjoyment?

Tarien's enjoyment is supposed to be evidence counter my own entertainment?

That is fanaticism of lowest kind.

[Redblade]

See, this is the issue with the genre...players are accustomed to the game *not being fun*.

Think about that for a minute. Isn't that a bit sad? Shouldn't we expect a lot more from developers?

I still find dungeons and raiding fun when doing it to farm gear because there is a purpose doing them, remove the purpose and it stops being fun after a couple of times, I do like the gear perfection "game" though. Removing end-game rewards that progresses your character means it would be no different than playing any FPS game, log in shoot some players, log out and watch TV.

[WarFalcon1]

It's wanting to see a developer produce a game where the content is both plentiful and entertaining enough to keep a player interested without the need to extend the duration of the content with gear grinds, artificial gating, RNG drops, so on and so forth.

See, this is the issue with the genre...players are accustomed to the game *not being fun*.

Think about that for a minute. Isn't that a bit sad? Shouldn't we expect a lot more from developers?

With the rate at which the MMO playerbase eats up content there is no way for a Developer to put out enough content at a rapid enough pace, without some sort of grind. Especially in a Subscription based game where people need to feel they are getting their moneys worth out of the product.

And if people really did not find it fun, why are they still PAYING to play the damn game? They might bitch and moan about how terrible it is, but if they are paying to play the game I'm sure they still find it fun. They might find the need to run stuff over and over bothersome. But when that piece of gear they always wanted drops, it makes it worth it.

[Tarien]

Again, the problem is I can not be wrong on a matter of enjoyment.

But you can be ridiculed for basing an opinion on next to nothing, which is in my book as good as being wrong.

Contrary to what?

To my enjoyment?

Tarien's enjoyment is supposed to be evidence counter my own entertainment?

That is fanaticism of lowest kind.

You can waffle on all you like (fanaticism? what? make sense), it doesn't change the fact that you who have barely looked at hunt rifts are trying to assert that your opinion is at all meaningful, while those of us who have given them a chance and almost unanimously found them to be quite entertaining are for some reason unable to convince you to take a deeper look.

But at the end of the day, it's your loss, I look forward to the day that you find that you have been wrong all along.

[philefluxx]

Leave my class dev alone!

Sorry Edge but PureMallace is right, Altrius is bad news for the Warrior class. Follow the post started yesterday on the Warrior sub section in regards to the changes made. Several times he is proven completely wrong by the community with hard facts. The guy didnt even know the proper CD times of certain Warrior abilities then proceeded to tell everyone that survivability was less a priority for the 90% of Warriors still leveling over his interest in balancing endgame for the maybe 10% who are actually ready for it. The guy is just bad

Sorry if he is like a friend or something but its the truth.