Page 2 of 16 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
12
... LastLast
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Crooklyn View Post
    beast cleave + heroic wind lord recklessness = big dmg
    Why would you not be surv for that fight in particular ? I'd have imagined that the sustained AOE-capabilities of Surv would far outweight the damage from BM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Why would you not be surv for that fight in particular ? I'd have imagined that the sustained AOE-capabilities of Surv would far outweight the damage from BM.
    because the add damage literally does not matter and i am pretty sure after the first set of adds go down and the buff goes on the boss, your aoe damage as bm will be far greater than sv

    like i said, beastcleave with the pet on the boss = insane aoe damage

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Crooklyn View Post
    because the add damage literally does not matter and i am pretty sure after the first set of adds go down and the buff goes on the boss, your aoe damage as bm will be far greater than sv

    like i said, beastcleave with the pet on the boss = insane aoe damage
    I'm sorry, I'm not quite understanding your logic. If the buff gets applied both spec's aoe damage will go up and since SV aoe is superior to BM's I don't see how BM would be better. Please explain.

    Is it how beast cleave takes 30% of the main target damage and the damage buff is greatly increased on H?
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2012-11-17 at 03:57 AM.

    Signature by Geekissexy Check out her Deviantart

  4. #24
    heroic windlord debuff is 600% increased damage taken

    beastcleave is 30% of your pet's melee attack damage done to all nearby enemies

    your pet attacks a mob with 600% increased damage taken

    beastcleave will be 30% of that damage to all surrounding mobs

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Crooklyn View Post
    heroic windlord debuff is 600% increased damage taken

    beastcleave is 30% of your pet's melee attack damage done to all nearby enemies

    your pet attacks a mob with 600% increased damage taken

    beastcleave will be 30% of that damage to all surrounding mobs
    Could you possibly provide a log? I'd want to see this in action lol.

    Signature by Geekissexy Check out her Deviantart

  6. #26

  7. #27
    My pet's melee hits for an average of ~22K.
    22*0.30=6500~.
    6*6500=40000~ per melee swing.
    Pet under frenzy gives off a melee swing every 1.26 seconds.
    That's ~32k dps per target if napkin math serves me right.
    ToTH is not used as BM, as it's a far bigger dps loss over dire beast than it is for surv, obv, so the assumption is 1 multishot every 4 seconds to keep beast up.
    Multishot hits for an average of 10K per target every 4 seconds (2.5K dps).
    So 34.5K dps per target.

    Surv -
    As Arcane Shot is much more potent for surv due to mastery, and toth is as such much stronger, we can assume you use toth for a multishot every 2 seconds.
    That's 5K dps for multishot.
    Your serpent sting ticks every 3 seconds per target, for an average of 17K per tick. That's 5.6K per target.
    Improved serpent sting hits every 2 seconds with multishot, for an average of 22K damage, or 11K dps.
    so 5+5.6+11K=21.6K damage per target.

    So yea, BM will do about 13K more dps per target under recklessness. On the other hand, untill Recklessness comes up, it'll be doing about 12K dps less.
    The difference is a bit smaller/wider as you have to factor in a trap that'll be 15% stronger for surv, but it's not a big deal I guess.

    So it basicly comes down to if you want the damage on adds during recklessness (where I'd have thought it would be a bad idea, as you prefer to frontload singletarget damage into the boss, rather than "waste" focus on the adds, with a multishot every 4 seconds, doing almost no singletarget damage?), or during down-time.

    I still am not convinced BM is the superior choise <.<. For padding the meters, sure. For actual, usefull damage during the fight that isn't just mindless whoring? Eh.

  8. #28
    i don't really know what to say except looking through some of those logs the bm hunters did more overall dps, more damage to adds, and more boss damage than the sv hunters

    limited sv parses though and most of the bm parses are not taking advantage of beast cleave during reck

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Crooklyn View Post
    i don't really know what to say except looking through some of those logs the bm hunters did more overall dps, more damage to adds, and more boss damage than the sv hunters

    limited sv parses though and most of the bm parses are not taking advantage of beast cleave during reck

    Might just be lack of proper players using SV (the only two I can really recognise is onymas and Elef because BM is FOTM, and other classes can bring AOE dps while still doing decent singletarget, while BM is far better burst in a 30-second window under cooldowns - thus people go BM as the AOE-dps is not "needed", as you say. Some raids go for getting all adds low, pushing boss to 77% or so, then smashing each add pack one at a time, to minimize wind bombs (but extend overall fight length), while others kill 4-5 sets of adds and just do them as they end up dying. First scenario, BM would be better as you don't want to AOE the adds much compared to the boss (they'll get low way before you deal out 250M singletarget dmg anyway through passive aoe).

    Comparing you and wala to Elef and Onymas, here's the numbers:

    On boss:
    Crook - 74M.
    Wala - 75M.
    Elef - 89M.
    Onymas - 81M.

    Adds (combined):
    Crook -36.5M.
    Wala -39.5M.
    Elef - 34M.
    Onymas - 29.5M.

    As you can see, Surv pulls far ahead of you two in singletarget, while you pull ahead in AOE on the adds (which you said were "useless") - I'd guess this is mainly due to the fact that you were using multishots under the Recklessness buff, while you probably should just have tunneled the boss, unless you go for the second strategy of killing sets of adds untill boss dies, and not 77%->3 sets and burn.

    Which leads me to believe, once again, that surv is superior - the only way BM is getting these numbers are by pure meter-padding, while surv delivers the on-demand AOE you might need, while not sacrifising singletarget damage during the 30 second burns.

  10. #30
    where are you getting the boss damage from

    unless i am using wol incorrectly i have myself doing :

    86.8M to boss
    37.4M to adds

    adds up to:
    124.2M which is consistent with my total damage done on wol

    also elef's kill time is 7:04, Onymas is 6:52, ours is 6:11. not sure if that actually matters, but yeah
    Last edited by crooklyn; 2012-11-17 at 05:05 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Crooklyn View Post
    where are you getting the boss damage from

    unless i am using wol incorrectly i have myself doing :

    86.8M to boss
    37.4M to adds

    also elef's kill time is 7:04, Onymas is 6:52, ours is 6:11. not sure if that actually matters, but yeah
    Found the dmg done to boss by going to your ranking log, and looked up you and your pet - you did almost 39M exactly, and pet did 35.2M. I'm guessing the other damage might be from stampede/dire beast? Not sure, it's getting late and I just picked pet+hunter for both of the comparisons.

    Killtime shouldn't matter much, really - it just shows why they did less DPS than you. What I'm comparing is the total DAMAGE done, which doesn't really matter from a DPS perspective as such.

  12. #32
    yes, you did not factor dire beast + stampede so in the end i still did more damage to boss and adds (close enough )

    going by your post, if the strat is to push to 77% then kill adds then BM is better

    if you are going ham on the adds and popping them asap you will get 3 recks which, according to logs, is still more boss+add damage than sv (according to the limited sv parses)

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Crooklyn View Post
    yes, you did not factor dire beast + stampede so in the end i still did more damage to boss and adds (close enough )

    going by your post, if the strat is to push to 77% then kill adds then BM is better

    if you are going ham on the adds and popping them asap you will get 3 recks which, according to logs, is still more boss+add damage than sv (according to the limited sv parses)
    What I don't get, is why stampede doesn't seem to show up for Onymas and Elef. Just their pets and their own damage. Something's clearly bugged here :s.
    Dire beast obviously narrows the gap, but I'm still unconvinced BM is better for dealing with the adds - as said, if you're doing the 77%-strat, you want to keep the adds *alive* till the end of the recklessness, you don't want them dying during - which means AOE'ing them is far less usefull. Along with wasting valueable singletarget damage on the boss. How much singletarget damage more *could* you have done, if you weren't using multishot? I mean, we can consider each multishot as ~1.5 arcane shots, so if you kept the buff up fulltime, thats 30/4=7 multishots, your multishots hit for an average of 20K per over the fight, your arcane shots for an average of 308K. I mean. We obviously can't use those numbers, as you multishotted the entire fight, but even if we say the multishot on boss did 100K damage, that's still like. A few millions more on the boss, atleast.


    Oh, and it seems like you guys killed 4 sets of adds, while the surv hunters only killed 3 - which means that their fight was longer, but their potential damage was far lower, as you had another expose-phase. So you went for the "kill adds as they come and deal with windbombs", while the surv's were doing the "wait till 77% then nuke". Interesting :s.

  14. #34
    That is because they are using glyph of stampede

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by bellatrex View Post
    so...are you saying it's a bug - i.e. you fall in the pit and disengage and it puts you out on the other side? OR - you jump and disengage in the air before you fall in the pit?
    The latter. Disengage back on mid air.

  16. #36
    Keep BA up on Elegon during spark phases for LnL procs.
    Explosive Trap where the adds spawn is better. It effects the boss and the adds.

  17. #37
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Brawl Pub
    Posts
    3,977
    I've been finding (at least on 10 man) explosive trap is better just because I'm solely responsible for a spark in 10man and I need to pool the focus AND have a LnL procced/about to proc. BA is annoying'll focus intense right when I don't want to be.

    (Edit: On heroic, wasn't a problem on normal)

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Crooklyn View Post
    heroic windlord debuff is 600% increased damage taken

    beastcleave is 30% of your pet's melee attack damage done to all nearby enemies

    your pet attacks a mob with 600% increased damage taken

    beastcleave will be 30% of that damage to all surrounding mobs
    Isn't that a bug that should've been fixed once they did the Garalon hotfix? It's basically the same thing rogues were doing there.

  19. #39
    You can definitely disengage of the blue fire walls in Elegon, please correct that as well.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Penguintamer View Post
    You can definitely disengage of the blue fire walls in Elegon, please correct that as well.
    I died when I tried it.. anyone else want to chime in here?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •