1. #1

    Need your opinion concerning affli opener!

    Hello folks, as said, iv'e noticed my opener might be totally crap, or somewhat okay.

    I start like this. CoE, haunt, SB:SS then just MF. But, around 10 sec into the fight i might have all my procs, trinkets, pots and even bloodlust. When i see i got all of these procs, i do SB:SS even if my dots are not halfway done, just to get the empowered dots up. I tend to do this often during the fight aswell, like if i just refreshed my dots to their full duration and 1 of my trinkets proc i refresh them once again by habit. I wonder if this lowers my dps significantly?
    Ofcourse it depends on which trinket procs and how much spellpower i empower the dots with, but in general, is refreshing the dots when im not "supposed" to that bad?

    This may be one of those cases where the answer is crystal clear, but i still can't figure if it's totally shit or somewhat okay.

    thanks.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome MisterSoup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Oxford, Ohio
    Posts
    609
    All of this is covered by Evrelia in his Affliction guide, and he goes into quite a bit of detail on how to handle procs, buffs, cooldowns and potions. You should check it out; it's stickied at the top of the Warlock forum

  3. #3
    Thanks alot! Can't believe i missed it!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Banez View Post
    Hello folks, as said, iv'e noticed my opener might be totally crap, or somewhat okay.

    I start like this. CoE, haunt, SB:SS then just MF. But, around 10 sec into the fight i might have all my procs, trinkets, pots and even bloodlust. When i see i got all of these procs, i do SB:SS even if my dots are not halfway done, just to get the empowered dots up. I tend to do this often during the fight aswell, like if i just refreshed my dots to their full duration and 1 of my trinkets proc i refresh them once again by habit. I wonder if this lowers my dps significantly?
    Ofcourse it depends on which trinket procs and how much spellpower i empower the dots with, but in general, is refreshing the dots when im not "supposed" to that bad?

    This may be one of those cases where the answer is crystal clear, but i still can't figure if it's totally shit or somewhat okay.

    thanks.
    Our dots update in real time so you dont have to wait for procs, the dots will update as and when your procs are up/down, same goes with your doomguard but remember he does more dps under 20% hp, and he also benefits from Heroism/Bloodlust/time warp now too.

    personally when im ready for a pull, i use soulburn asap and get the tank to pull when my shard regens, this gives u about a 6 sec window where u can cast Soul swap, and you still have 4 shards after it.

    let your raid leader know about this, especially when you are pushing dps for a kill that your wiping on 1% etc. it will give you more burst and will have a slighty higher uptime on haunt for the remained of the fight, it may only be 15secs but if that haunt crits, it can = about 400-500k damage (including dot ticks) and if multi target fight it allows u an extra SB:SS onto an add. another tip is never cast haunt if your dots have < 6 secs left, you do not want to refresh dots while haunt is up, this is DRAIN TIME.

    The main bit of advice i can give you is dont let agony fall off ever. make refreshing this a priority. glhf

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by viperbesteu View Post
    Our dots update in real time so you dont have to wait for procs, the dots will update as and when your procs are up/down
    NO NO NO NO NO

    NO

    Dot's do not and have not EVER updated dynamically. You get a good proc you HAVE to refresh to get the benefit.

    Do NOT spread this kind of bad information on these forums.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    NO NO NO NO NO

    NO

    Dot's do not and have not EVER updated dynamically. You get a good proc you HAVE to refresh to get the benefit.

    Do NOT spread this kind of bad information on these forums.
    WOW can you please go play in a field of flowers?! Fluffy Bunny, people like you are why the human race are just pure bad. I suppose that dots dont extend by 50% either???? god ur a total spastic..

    Please don't call other people names. Edited out profanity.
    Last edited by Arlee; 2012-11-17 at 05:27 PM.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire viciouss's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chicago, IL.
    Posts
    399
    Quote Originally Posted by viperbesteu View Post
    WOW can you play in a field of flowers?! Fluffy Bunny, people like you are why the human race are just pure bad. I suppose that dots dont extend by 50% either???? god ur a total spastic..
    But he is correct...

    Just test it out on a dummy. Cast corruption and wait for procs and watch the damage stay the same. You must refresh dots after procs for them to benefit.

    Edited out the profanity - Arlee
    Last edited by Arlee; 2012-11-17 at 05:28 PM.
    If I weren't insane: I couldn't be so brilliant!

  8. #8
    im not gonna argue here, im just gonna sit back till you apologise. so have fun xx

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by viperbesteu View Post
    Our dots update in real time so you dont have to wait for procs, the dots will update as and when your procs are up/down
    Quote Originally Posted by viperbesteu View Post
    WOW can you go play in a field of flowers?! Fluffy Bunny, people like you are why the human race are just pure bad.
    You should learn to take your own advice. DoTs do not update in real time unless you reapply them. In fact there is an 8 page thread about an addon that tracks the power of your DoTs and when is the best time to reapply them. You think that many people are idiots? Now go follow your own advice.

    edited out profanity -Arlee

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by viperbesteu View Post
    WOW can you please go die?! fucking idiot, people like you are why the human race are just pure bad. I suppose that dots dont extend by 50% either???? god ur a total spastic..
    You're completely wrong though.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ate-November-2

    "Pandemic no longer smooths the damage when extending dots with different amounts of spellpower."

    The above bugfix makes zero sense if dots updated dynamically.

    Dots do not updated dynamically, being a good affliction warlock has often been about (ab)using this mechanic to it's fullest extent.

  11. #11
    the ppl here are idd correct, DoTs dont update automatically when you gain a proc and they never have which is one of the reasons why the affdots addon is so good coz as mentioned it tracks the power of your dots and lets you know when the best time to refresh is. the poster that said that dots update dynamically must be rather new to the class and his reaction to be corrected is rather immature, if you cant handle being corrected like that, dont use forums.

    also nagassh, we gotta love blizz' way of making patch notes as "Pandemic no longer smooths the damage when extending dots with different amounts of spellpower." is open for interpretation, from what i can understand when you reapply a dot, pandemic gives you an average of the spellpower involved with the old and the new dot so your new dot might not be fully up to its actual power when you reply dots with pandemic involved, and this bugfix makes you always use the current amount of spellpower when you reapply dots even when pandemic is involved, this could end up being a fairly decent buff for afflic. this is how i understand it atleast.
    Last edited by almara2512; 2012-11-17 at 04:03 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    You're completely wrong though.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ate-November-2

    "Pandemic no longer smooths the damage when extending dots with different amounts of spellpower."

    The above bugfix makes zero sense if dots updated dynamically.

    Dots do not updated dynamically, being a good affliction warlock has often been about (ab)using this mechanic to it's fullest extent.
    AFAIK this problem is only for Curruption and it's still on live (that's 5.1 patch notes). If I understand it right... what it does is making some average value of your current stats and the ones you had when applying the dot the previous time. I haven't bothered checking into it since I see no easy way to adjust to it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    this bugfix makes you always use the current amount of spellpower when you reapply dots even when pandemic is involved, this could end up being a fairly decent buff for afflic. this is how i understand it atleast.
    It was possible to work around it by using fel flame, since that updated the values properly and the bug wasn't affecting COA iirc, but yeah - it'll certainly improve some things if played right, it might actually be a nerf for people who were playing "wrong" and refreshing over buffed dots with a weak one, but it's definitely going to be helpful when refreshing weak dots with buffed ones.

    I wasn't really trying to discuss the actual bug though, I was just trying to point out a blue post that specifically pointed out that dots could be applied with different spell powers, since the guy arguing that dots update dynamically doesn't seem to be capable of being told otherwise, I thought a blue post might be convincing.

  14. #14
    Yeah i've heard of that bug, and that brings me even more confusion, I try to refresh corruption (when i got SP procs) with fel flame, because i've read that corruption does not update as intended otherwise.

    Can someone who has better understanding of how the dots actually work right now make it abit more clear? I mean the blue post saying pandemic doesn't smooth the damage. Because that just gives me a headache trying to understand.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 06:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by viperbesteu View Post
    WOW can you please go die?! fucking idiot, people like you are why the human race are just pure bad. I suppose that dots dont extend by 50% either???? god ur a total spastic..
    Man don't use that kind of language here, uneccesary, you are wrong in this case, please try to understand it. Atleast now you know that you can improve hellalot more by updating your dots whilst under spellpower effects

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Banez View Post
    Can someone who has better understanding of how the dots actually work right now make it abit more clear? I mean the blue post saying pandemic doesn't smooth the damage. Because that just gives me a headache trying to understand.
    I'll use arbitrary numbers, I've not looked too deeply at the math, but essentially.

    You're in the fight and have corruption running with (Arbitrary number) Power of 1000.
    You then get a few procs, and recast corruption so that it benefit from the procs, it should be ticking at Power of 2000.
    Instead, you get corruption ticking at some power between 1000 and 2000, so it's not ticking as strongly as it should under the procs - it's been smoothed out to an average number between the two point instead of spiking up to the 2000 it should be at - you're not getting the full benefit of your buffs.

    Fel Flame bypasses this and just cranks it straight up to 2000.

    Grossly simplified, but that's the gist of it.

  16. #16
    Sweet, Thanks Nagassh!

    One more thing, How deadly is it to refresh both UA and Corr then? I mean, i rarely get the same "refresh window" on both UA and corr...which gets me wondering ^^

  17. #17
    Depends entirely on the situation and if you're talking about refreshing them with fel flame or by casting corruption / UA properly.

    There's a myriad of different scenarios that would probably be too hard to give an answer to each one - and the answer won't be the same after the bug is fixed in 5.1

    Currently, if you just had a huge proc, UA had 3 seconds duration left and corruption had just been refreshed, so was at max duration - it would probably be best to hardcast UA to get it's full duration, then firing a fel flame to update corruption to take advantage of the proc. After 5.1, you can just as easily cast a fresh corruption since it won't try smoothing the damage.

    If you haven't got any procs going then there's obviously no point in refreshing corruption if it has a lot of time on it, just refresh UA and continue doing your rotation, only reason you ever want to refresh dots early is if you've got procs that were better than the proc you had when you applied that dot last OR if you want to cast haunt, but the dot would fall off before haunts debuff finishes, since you do NOT want to be refreshing dots while haunt is up - you want to spend all that time MGing.

    I'm not sure what more to say than that - hope that answers the question, but I'm not certain I interpreted it right, if not - there are better warlocks than me on the forum that are probably a lot better at explaining what they mean too, probably better hunting answers from them.

  18. #18
    this is also when an addon like affdots will become god-like as it will always tell you when it is beneficial for you to use fel flame or just refresh with "pandemic".

    what i usually do during openings is coe first, pop darksoul and pre pot, followed by haunt and then SB:SS as this should should give me the max amount of time where i can MG with haunt and all dots up and as soon as i get all procs(this often happens within the first 5-10 secs of the fight so you can get your supercharged dots up early on with an extended duration to boot), i refresh my dots instantly using SB:SS which i follow up again with a haunt if i have the shards for it, i think this is the optimal way to make your openings as afflic. really need to use your haunt wisely, i tend to use my haunts when i have dots on a target that was applied with atleast 1, preferably 2 int procs and with all 4 procs its a no brainer(lightweave, jade spirit, relic of yulon and light of the cosmos).

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Banez View Post
    Yeah i've heard of that bug, and that brings me even more confusion, I try to refresh corruption (when i got SP procs) with fel flame, because i've read that corruption does not update as intended otherwise.

    Can someone who has better understanding of how the dots actually work right now make it abit more clear? I mean the blue post saying pandemic doesn't smooth the damage. Because that just gives me a headache trying to understand.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 06:25 PM ----------



    Man don't use that kind of language here, uneccesary, you are wrong in this case, please try to understand it. Atleast now you know that you can improve hellalot more by updating your dots whilst under spellpower effects
    Banez, check out the video guide at the top of the Affliction thread. That explains the optimal way to play. Even with pandemic smoothing in mind, it's probably still optimal.
    Visit www.warcraftacademy.com for full video guides for all encounters in Siege of Orgrimmar.
    Armory Link - ScrubBusters 25 Man World #7

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    Banez, check out the video guide at the top of the Affliction thread. That explains the optimal way to play. Even with pandemic smoothing in mind, it's probably still optimal.
    Thanks Evralia, i've watched your vid several times, great guide btw!
    I am still interested though how other warlocks play, and wanting to know abit more in-depth about this whole corruption refresh bug and how other warlocks handle it which Nagassh answered, thank you for that

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •