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  1. #1

    Out of ideas. Need some tips

    Hello fellow mmo-champions

    I am in this 10 man raiding guild. We raid 2 times a week and do not have the best progress. However. I would like to be the best that i can be. But clearly i am not.

    According to both shadowcraft, forums and simcraft. Im underperforming.

    I am hit and expertise capped And follow the rotation posted on icy-veins. (assassin) Deadly and leeching poison

    Opening with ambush.
    Followed by slice and dice.
    5 cp rupture
    and spamming muti > envenom. Trying to refresh rupture when its about to expire. (not always happening)

    I am about almost 10-15k behind the dps i should be doing apparently.

    My character - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rathzar/simple

    Some wol logs
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/72310/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/cv9su7jjlbuilnet/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4ptodun7mmft0zcn/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/yhf1za7ehisgcn4d/

    Always going combat on stone guards.

    If any more info is needed. Please say so.

    Help this "old" man suck less

  2. #2
    Gearing:re-gem with the priority agi > mastery > hit. Anything red should be pure agi, anything yellow agi/mastery, anything blue mastery/hit, and use the second serpent's eye as a red gem. Replace the haste cogwheel with either hit or expertise. Then use a "brute force" program to reforge your gear (wow reforge, reforgelite, etc. etc.) to maximize mastery gain without dropping under the caps (or you CAN drop under expertise, but I like knowing when my attacks are going to hit). Tinker your gloves; use the bonus to agility from the synapse springs on cooldown, and it will line up with Vendetta each time. If you're open to spending some, grab 2x Dancing Steel weapon enchants. The first is a slightly greater gain than the second, if you're debating it mentally. Making sure you have your flask up is of course huge, as is using a potion directly before the pull and again during the fight's burn phase.

    Glyphs/Talents: With how often you feint to help your raid, you're MUCH better off with Elusiveness and Glyph of Feint than leeching/recuperate. Leeching is naturally lower in assassination because it scales with physical damage, and extended duration 65% reduced AoE damage should eliminate any need to recuperate.

    Play: Honestly your damage is right about where it should be in real play in your gear (you might be able to squeeze a bit more out on some fights by reducing feint uptime to ATTACK MOAR, or with clever use of cloak of shadows to stay in melee with bosses you'd normally run away from etc.) - you should note that sims, unless you change the settings, assume 2 potions (1 before and 1 during the fight), a flask, food, and staying face-to-back with the boss for the entire duration of the predetermined fight run time. The only fight you DO seem low is on Elegon, but I'm not really ready to delve into why. If you do a few searches in the rogue forum about that fight you can read about elusiveness -> boss uptime, how to switch to charges for burst (assuming you're killing 4-5 sets each round), and when to reset your stacks of the debuff during that fight. Rather than ~90k you should be able to push 120+, but the rest don't look bad at all.
    Last edited by Kael; 2012-11-16 at 10:17 PM.

  3. #3
    Ok. I am using reforge lite for my reforging needs. But i have also been forth and back with askmrrobot. So i guess there is more to get there. I will redo all my gems and go over it again.

    As for elegon. I guess that can also be due to us not being able to kill the boss yet either
    Best try is 19% i think it was. I guess i will improve even more when we get the fight down.

    Also, atm i keep running out to reset my first add explotion. I guess i dont have to on the first and the second i can use CoS. But i will need to research that fight a lot more.

    Will also look more into elusiveness and dropping leeching

    Thanks a lot for the quick answer and the help

  4. #4
    Shadowcraft for you. Gear optimization shows a 1.2k DPS increase. You're also missing the engi gloves tinker and a JC gem.

    Looking at your Feng kill because that's probably the best fight to see your rotation. Some things I noticed:
    No potions? You should be prepotting and hero/CD potting. That's a lot more DPS than most people think.
    Only 2 Shadow Blades. Should be 3 in a 7m fight.
    Only 3 Vendetta. Should be 4.
    Rupture uptime is a little low (93%).
    You have 34 Envenoms but only 188s of uptime. Expected uptime is 204s. That means you're using low-CP Envs or clipping.
    Feint 21 times. That seems like too much for this fight. You really shouldn't use Feint unless your healers are struggling because it's a DPS loss.
    You used Recuperate. Recup is pretty much useless because it heals for so little over such a long amount of time. It's really not worth using.

    That's just a cursory glance at one fight, but that should help you bring your DPS up by quite a bit.
    Last edited by Squirl; 2012-11-16 at 11:30 PM.

  5. #5
    Need to stop using feint and gonna remove recup from action bars
    What i have been doing is when i had decent time left on rupture ive used a recupe when running out from epicenter. But i see that now, that its a waste.

    Will pay more attention to envenom aswell. Only go for 5cp with anticipation and not clip it. Pool more energy

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Vinho's Avatar
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    You don't necessarily have to stop using feint and recup altogether, are they a dps decrease yes, but you don't need to be helping your healers THAT much. Definitely pool more energy - and I'm not sure whether you're flasked or not (and I'm not all too familiar with reading WoL) but from what I could see from taking a peek at your Feng Kill, you weren't potting, which leads me to assume that you're also not pre potting. (4000 bonus agility for ~22 seconds at the start of the fight when everything is popped + another 4000 agility for 25 seconds during a blood lust phase is pretty huge on your dps)

    Also, you should rid yourself of your windsong enchants on your gorgeous 489 daggers, and put Dancing Steel on those bad boys!
    Proud GM of <The Pleasure Palace> Click My WoW Armoury

  7. #7
    Dreadlord Vanthem's Avatar
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    The glaring issue I could see was the lack of Dancing Steels on your 489 Daggers, and the mix of gems shows us that you really do not know how to gem your gear correctly. As others have said, prepotting/lust/potting is a bigger deal than most people care think. Another thing people have pointed out is your Glove Tinker, how do you miss such a huge bonus? :P

  8. #8
    So, I'm not a rogue, and I can't actually offer any help. But I saw this thread, and I just want to say, thank you for being a player who cares about bettering themselves, even for a casual environment. Good luck, and keep it up!

  9. #9
    As someone said, you need a better enchant on the weapons.

  10. #10
    Are you properly tracking the envenom buff? If you are trying to maximize, you need to try to avoid clipping the envenom buff. Basically, at 5CP, pool some energy before envenoming so you can mut x 2 right away with the buff, and don't envenom again until the buff is just falling off. That's the only thing that I think hasn't been said yet. If you need a way to track it, you can use weak auras. Here is a weak auras I have used that has tracking from most useful buffs. Just copy & import this into weak auras:

    Code:
    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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    Hello fellow mmo-champions

    I am in this 10 man raiding guild. We raid 2 times a week and do not have the best progress. However. I would like to be the best that i can be. But clearly i am not.

    According to both shadowcraft, forums and simcraft. Im underperforming.

    I am hit and expertise capped And follow the rotation posted on icy-veins. (assassin) Deadly and leeching poison

    Opening with ambush.
    Followed by slice and dice.
    5 cp rupture
    and spamming muti > envenom. Trying to refresh rupture when its about to expire. (not always happening)

    I am about almost 10-15k behind the dps i should be doing apparently.

    My character - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rathzar/simple

    Some wol logs
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/72310/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/cv9su7jjlbuilnet/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4ptodun7mmft0zcn/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/yhf1za7ehisgcn4d/

    Always going combat on stone guards.

    If any more info is needed. Please say so.

    Help this "old" man suck less
    Try this opener for a change:

    Open with Mut (stealthed)
    Rupture
    Mut
    SnD
    Go with your rotation and pop CDs once you have a decent amount of rupture rolling

    Never really had to use recup on any fights, Feint is good when your healers are struggling to keep you up.

  12. #12
    Will get dancing steel on the daggers. Probably wont get the ones from endless spring in a while anyways
    I am not pre potting. But using pots everynow and then in fights., Always flask and buff food.

    Will try to change my rotation slightly and pay a little more attention to not clip the env buff and start pooling more energy. Will start pre potting and use pot in fight.

    Our healers are decent so i will focus on using recup and feint less. Just use feint for hard aoe things like Force and verve and the add explotion on elegon.

    I have already changed my gemming according to Mugajak and that gave me more mastery after reforging again with reforge lite

    Thanks a bunch for all the replies. Looking forward to see how stuff gonna go now

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    Will get dancing steel on the daggers. Probably wont get the ones from endless spring in a while anyways
    I am not pre potting. But using pots everynow and then in fights., Always flask and buff food.

    Will try to change my rotation slightly and pay a little more attention to not clip the env buff and start pooling more energy. Will start pre potting and use pot in fight.

    Our healers are decent so i will focus on using recup and feint less. Just use feint for hard aoe things like Force and verve and the add explotion on elegon.

    I have already changed my gemming according to Mugajak and that gave me more mastery after reforging again with reforge lite

    Thanks a bunch for all the replies. Looking forward to see how stuff gonna go now
    Shadowcraft shows another 500 dps you can pick up in gear optimization. I would use that unless you want to fuss with SimC.

  14. #14
    I managed to pull 68k on feng today on Lfr. Its about 5k more than usual. 72k on gara'jal. And that was without going down for the totem once.

    And without pots, food and flask Not using that for lfr. Am in raid ofc!!

    Got dancing steel on both daggers aswell. also regemmed and reforged

  15. #15
    Try this opener which i use.

    Tricks of the trade -> Prepot/stealth -> Mutilate -> Slice and Dice -> Mutilate -> Rupture

    (I think Slice and dice is more important to get up ASAP then rupture)

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    I managed to pull 68k on feng today on Lfr. Its about 5k more than usual. 72k on gara'jal. And that was without going down for the totem once.

    And without pots, food and flask Not using that for lfr. Am in raid ofc!!

    Got dancing steel on both daggers aswell. also regemmed and reforged
    Very cool. GL, man.

  17. #17
    Congrats and good luck =)

  18. #18
    Did a real raid today.

    I pulled 8k more on First boss in Heart of Fear. So i must have done something right

    i didnt use recup once. only used feint on the right platform. When he did the aoe dmg.

    Still only 93% uptime on rupture tho. But i got mced 2 times when i was supposed to renew it. So that could probably be why it wasnt much better than last time. What number should i be aiming for ? 98% ?

    Looked like i handled the envenom buff better aswell.

    Thanks for all the help guys. It can only go up from here

    i did use feint a lot on the second boss tho But i only use it now when i cant dps. Like when he use unseen strike or while running to the boss dodging the tornados

  19. #19
    98-99% when there aren't things 'stopping you' from applying rupture. Vizier SHOULD have "some" downtime, because the greatest draw of rupture ticking is the energy regen, and quite frankly you don't need MOAR ENERGY when running through damage/silence or when you're attacking other players. Feint use sounds spot on for what you should do to help the healers the most while hurting your damage the least.

  20. #20
    Yeah. like today i only used feint when i had nothing to attack for the next 3-4 seconds. with the exception of the aoe on imperial. But i think i could have skipped it. was a kill nonetheless and a 8k improvement. that should count for something. I was happy. thats the important part

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