Oh no. Rogues aren't stunlocking you for an insta-kill. Much be Underpowered.
They are in a bad place, but it's better than in Season 12? *or what it 11*.
Oh no. Rogues aren't stunlocking you for an insta-kill. Much be Underpowered.
They are in a bad place, but it's better than in Season 12? *or what it 11*.
We stopped searching for monsters under our beds when we realized that they were inside us.
Tell me something, my friend. You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?
I actually didn't think any real nerfs had happened to them either until I mentioned to Verain (a smart rogue poster around these parts) that I thought the reasons rogues were weak right now was because other classes had just gotten significantly stronger, while rogues hadnt significantly changed. I found his response pretty informative:
Now obviously as a lifetime rogue main, he's a bit biased - but that's actually a pretty big list of nerfs that as he points out, when taken in aggregate, explain a lot more of why rogues suddenly went from overpowered last season to terrible this season than the loss of legendaries and vial explain.Originally Posted by Verain
The rogue legendary proc last season wasn't very effective in pvp - it took over a minute of up-time to build up 30+ stacks at which point it became possible for the legendary to proc (but it may not proc until up to 2 minutes / 50 stacks if you weren't lucky), once procced you spam some eviscerates - but spamming eviscerate was what Subtlety did anyways. The proc was weakest for the only really competitive rogue spec last season (Subtlety). CC'ing the rogue for like (10 or 15 seconds, but in either case a proper CC train always did it) would reset their stacks, so against any RLS or RMP or the like (warlocks, mages) where a CC chain is always a succession of fears to fears to fears (or polys to polys to polys), you never saw the legendary even proc: without the proc the weapons themselves had stats equivalent to heroic deathwing weapons (of which, heroic gurthalak was the strongest weapon of the expansion by far).
The real problem was that rogues were just too strong by the end of the season (they scale well every expansion but start out weak as a consequence, as some people already mentioned), and Vial - even after the significant nerf - was still way too good (so were Cunning and Fetish). Combined with strong seasons for mages, affliction locks and disc priests - rogues were in high demand for RMP's and RLS's (and as a result, last season consisted of RMPs and RLS's overwhelmingly).
As post above points out what most don't get almost everything about rogues in pvp was nerfed in someway theres no amount of scaling that going to make up for all the massive nerfs. As I said its not about the dmg its everything else.
Legendaries combined with vial of shadows who alone did insane ammounts of damage.
Thing is that rogues currently are pretty much garbage. They lack the survivability other classes have, they have nearly no mobility whatsoever compared to classes who have far thicker armor, their damage even during burst phases is actually below that of others and so on and on and on.
Also the talent revampt hit them hard. Because while other classes often got many talents for free things like +% crit on ambush, reduced armor and others seem to be simply gone as of now.
There is the possibility of undergear, maybe he forgot to add his poisons or had the wrong poisons on. There is also the possibility that he forgot he had rez sickness and he joined a bg. I know I did that once.
They stopped being OP.
Actually, Find Weakness (70% armor penetration for 10 seconds after using a Stealth Attack - Ambush, Garrote, Cheap Shot) is still in, it was made baseline for Subtlety rogues, and Mutilates comparatively higher poison based damage now also effectively is additional armor penetration (in that armor matters less to them now than it did before, albeit only slightly). So that's one nice thing they did get to keep
Long story short, I was fighting Nessos for that shell trinket. a spriest comes, fears me off, dots me up, I go back, all cd's. I use every single cd, Im not the greatest rogue, but im not the worst, Ive been to 2.2k, i know my class. 7 year+ vet.
and every time, I'd pummel him down to like 25%.. one fear... and then by the time im back on target hes full hp.
rogues are a laughing stock now. the above mentioned is all true, other classses may not like it, but they certainly cant debunk it
Warrior detected. Warrior were damn strong in season 9 and they were average at worst in 10 and 11. Their only problem was that two classes they were struggling against were extremly strong. But of course for an warrior everything below the current state of warriors is "terrible" and "unplayable".
The easy-to-get legendaries helped rogues, but you're right - they would have been overpowered without them.
I'd go further and say warriors were overpowered in season nine, actually. That said, they were way below average by season 11; they had nothing going for them at that stage and were bettered by leather-melee in every meaningful way.
They're back to overpowered again now because it seems the playerbase can't be realistic in its feedback. A spec is either "god mode" or "terribly broken", with nothing in between. Add that to the sheer silliness of some commentary and you get this season of PvP.
Probably the worst ever.
That is utterly untrue.. UR A LIAR!!!
Everyone who knows ANYTHING about arena knows that there has been one class at the bottom played in Arena for years and they were bottom throughout the ENTIRE Cataclysm... thats Hunters!
ur sir are completely inventing bullcrap and taking it as fact.. i suggest u do some research before spouting lies about Warriors ever being in a bad place in PvP.
The truth about Warriors at the start of Cataclysm is that they were OP and Blizzard was forced to install a quickfix nerf due to their retardedly massive damage and stuns which was breaking PvP...
The fact they only had around 2% arena representation shows they were the least played in Arena... thats what i said and its FACT.
True they did get some nice PvP buffs during Cata which meant they ended Cata being very viable Arena class but they remained the bottom of the Arena class list since probably just after TBC, they were certainly bottom throughout Wrath.
Right now Rogue and Monk are the least played class in arena. As proved by the data... Warriors top ofc :P
http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/
PS apologies if your comment was sarcasm, i confess i didnt read the entire thread lol
EDIT: another interesting point to the stats shown on that webiste is that RMP is now dead and DMP is the preffered setup. 2nd most played setup in 3v3 and ofc RMP not even making the ranking list its so bad now.
Last edited by mmoc978ad45763; 2012-11-17 at 07:25 PM.