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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Aside from Shado-pan and August Celestials none of the factions requires more that a couple of days to get honored with.

    (ok exaggerating a bit probably takes a week but anyways...)
    Those are the reps I'm talking about. Theres some pieces from those reps that are still upgrades for me. It's not the end of the world, but it feels odd having max valor and nothing to buy.

    I really just wish they'd either make the gear purchasable with either valor or rep, but not both. Then increase the valor for people doing dailies, so they can actually get some gear in a reasonable amount of time. That way people are still gated into getting gear upgrades, but can get the upgrades from the source they prefer.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    Your entire initial post is basically scolding people for not playing how you do. You even admit you can't understand how people do things differently to yourself. The fact is everyone is in a different guild/situation that has different needs. It's awesome for you that you didn't need to do them, but not everyone is you.



    As above it may be that simple for you but is not for everyone. Certainly as a working adult I can't log in every day, and what is a little bit of time for you is a huge deal for me. Sure they're optional, but I am absolutely behind because I can't do them, and that is making the game less fun personally because I log in and just feel bad, then obligated, then bored. I'm glad you don't care about that, but again, your thought and feelings are not everybody else's.

    As far as crafting goes my point is that all of the crafting patterns are also hidden behind these rep grinds that you don't think are important. Great for you, but I have 5 tailors to get the bag pattern on, add in my main and I'm going to be grinding to exalted with AC 6 times. That actually makes me want to die inside, not to mention simply not play rather than do it. It's really not enjoyable at all. Add in BS/LW/JC etc patterns and that is a tonne of rep grinding. The same reps over and over and over. Can you seriously not understand that crafting is an important aspect of the game for some people and that crafters are having to rep grind excessively to just be crafters here? Oh of course not, because it isn't important to you so obviously it's irrelevant for everyone else.



    The game is excessively focused on dailies. It is the main thing to do for many people. I don't have a problem with them being an option, but I don't like them being so core to the game. I hate questing. I don't do it unless I really feel there's no choice. I've never even leveled by questing. So to get to 90 and be told 'hey here's more quests. No you're never escaping' is not fun. I've never struggled to find stuff to do in other xpacs while not questing, I have struggled in this one (admittedly partly because of time issues), which is where my general statement of it being heavily dailies focused comes from.
    Wrong.

    Firstly, you have a bad case of selective reading and misunderstanding text. As I said, and I guess i'll have to repeat myself. It has nothing to do with the way I play and the way others play, the main point is very clear, the dailies are optional, 100% optional. The raiders, alts and socials in any guild find the situation the same, and again it's very simple, the dailies make no difference to progression. Normal raids are cleared in heroic blues and some boe's from the ah, not a hint of dailies is needed for that.

    Secondly, there are plenty of working adults who play wow, if you can't manage your time then that's an issue you have to deal with. You are not "behind" because you can't do optional dailies, it would make no difference if you could do them or not.

    Next, your point about crafting. Seriously, the standing required is honoured, that is a complete minimum of effort, and again, OPTIONAL, the items crafted are boe, just buy them? They are dirt cheap now too, because again, the ilvl is useless now. You have 5 tailors, and you just must have the pattern for the bag on all 5 chars? Wrong, and again, OPTIONAL, you don't have to, you don't have to get them on any char, you again could just buy them from the ah. The points you make just highlight more, the fact that all of these dailies are a simple case of "do or do not".

    Lastly, where and how are dailies the core focus of the game, where are you getting that from? The amount of content in the game is vast, and the only thing you can see is dailies? Somebody should tell Blizzard that dungeons, raids and arenas (and all of the other content) is missing, clearly some sort of bug. And the point you make about not liking quests at all is laughable. Why would you play an MMORPG? That's the whole point of these games. Every single MMORPG game on the market is quest based. There is currently more content in the game then ever before, so struggling to find something to do is nothing to do with the expansion, but as you said, more the fact you seem to have no time to play.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by PuppetShowJustice View Post
    How many alts do you have?
    On how many alt do you raid seriously?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    Your entire initial post is basically scolding people for not playing how you do. You even admit you can't understand how people do things differently to yourself. The fact is everyone is in a different guild/situation that has different needs. It's awesome for you that you didn't need to do them, but not everyone is you.



    As above it may be that simple for you but is not for everyone. Certainly as a working adult I can't log in every day, and what is a little bit of time for you is a huge deal for me. Sure they're optional, but I am absolutely behind because I can't do them, and that is making the game less fun personally because I log in and just feel bad, then obligated, then bored. I'm glad you don't care about that, but again, your thought and feelings are not everybody else's.

    As far as crafting goes my point is that all of the crafting patterns are also hidden behind these rep grinds that you don't think are important. Great for you, but I have 5 tailors to get the bag pattern on, add in my main and I'm going to be grinding to exalted with AC 6 times. That actually makes me want to die inside, not to mention simply not play rather than do it. It's really not enjoyable at all. Add in BS/LW/JC etc patterns and that is a tonne of rep grinding. The same reps over and over and over. Can you seriously not understand that crafting is an important aspect of the game for some people and that crafters are having to rep grind excessively to just be crafters here? Oh of course not, because it isn't important to you so obviously it's irrelevant for everyone else.



    The game is excessively focused on dailies. It is the main thing to do for many people. I don't have a problem with them being an option, but I don't like them being so core to the game. I hate questing. I don't do it unless I really feel there's no choice. I've never even leveled by questing. So to get to 90 and be told 'hey here's more quests. No you're never escaping' is not fun. I've never struggled to find stuff to do in other xpacs while not questing, I have struggled in this one (admittedly partly because of time issues), which is where my general statement of it being heavily dailies focused comes from.
    There's so many problems with your post I don't know where to begin.

    1. The OP was scolding people (like you) for being completely blind to the fact that rep grinding is optional. The rest of your post goes on to prove his point. None of the points you cited are mandatory to progress. NONE OF IT.

    2. If you can't log in every day, why on God's green earth do you think you should be entitled to "keep up"? MMOs reward time commitments. I can only log on for any relevant amount of time during the weekends, and so yes, that means I get behind. That's the way it should be. And guess what? I'm barely behind. I've revered with all 3 main factions and have met my valor cap every week. No, I couldn't do that with alts. And good. Again, why have so many alts if you have so little time? That sounds more like a personal problem than a problem with Blizzard. Alts by definition are optional. They gained relevance in an era where there was nothing to do for most people so leveling alts was a way to pass the time. In a perfect world, you should be spending more time on your main than on your alts, but in the Cata era, loads of alts were the law of the land. That is not the way it should be. That's my opinion, but I think it's one a lot of people share.

    3. Once again, why do you NEED to get the bag pattern on all 6 toons? Why do you need it on one? We've entered this bizarro world in which people believe that patterns should just be given away, which entirely eliminates the point of the profession. Hell, in the case of the Royal Satchel, the bag isn't even very difficult to make, that's why the pattern is so hard to get! It's a profession badge of honor, and a hell of a moneymaker, for those willing to make the time commitment. Why you think you should simply be given things is beyond me. Same goes with gear patterns. Don't like dailies? Well, find a way of making gold and just buy the gear. Get a friend to make them. No one is forcing you to do anything, and expecting patterns without doing anything for them is silly.

    4. What has been taken away from you that makes you "struggle to find stuff to do" without questing? You're still amply rewarded for chaining heroic dungeons. You can still create alts (though something tells me your prime source of enjoyment during Cata was leveling alts, which is an indictment of Cata, not MOP). There's plenty of raiding content, including a far more extensive LFR. So tell me friend, in what way are you forced to do anything? Because all I see is a player that sees a shiny object in the distance and expects it come to him rather than vice versa. Could be wrong, but I'm probably not.
    Last edited by Nekosom; 2012-11-17 at 12:05 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoochlol View Post
    So, we all see a minority of people constantly crying over the fact that they feel as they have no option but to do dailies, and I cannot for the life of me see why they feel that way, it literally baffles me.
    <snip>
    The dailies work just as they did in TBC (I guess the people crying about it missed the only good expansion pre-mop), whereas if you wanted mounts etc, you earned it.

    Actually, now I brought TBC up, the people crying about dailies now, all probably missed attunements. That's right, raids back then required you to do quest chains just to get through the doors, you have it extremely easy now, it's quite sad.
    You can't compare progressing in dungeons via dungeons, and progressing in dungeons via highly antisocial activity aka dailies or live on lottery.

    "Vocal minority" is already moving on, so you could enjoy doing optional dailies and grind VP 24/7 together with other like-minded. 5.1 will bring even more dailies and even more VP grind to make such people happy.

    Oh and I peek in many guilds, and wanna know situation in most of those?
    Evening. 30 people online.
    Guild chat, person A: Anyone for dungeon? Need 2 dps and healer.
    Guild chat, person B: Sorry doing dailies.
    Guild chat, person C: Just finishing Klaxxi, then logging off.


    In example, as tankadin I couldn't get proper guild group to run [barely rewarding] dungeons without pugs (and most of pugs act as if they are playing from psychiatric clinic), and was stuck to do dailies, killing anti-melee mobs with quadrillions of HP and trying to loot 10 quest objects from ground, while only 5 are up at one time, and 10+ other players around doing same as me.

    Oh, it's gonna backfire hard. Europe suffers from economic recession and paying for doing something, you don't enjoy in game, isn't really a smart move for many people, especially for those, who work for their money. Threads as this do nothing good, but only help to dig grave for WoW. Why to not help game instead? Why people want to defend destructive changes rather than oppose them and save the game, which we all loved?

    P.S.: Speaking about work, which was mentioned in original post. Does OP live from lottery or receives salary in form of lottery tickets? That's of course if he works at all, and not sitting 24/7 in game instead, "working" for some pixels.

  6. #26
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    Reputation should be seen as something you progress over a long period of time, not something you need to get to Exalted in 5 days.

    I've not done any dailies now for 2 weeks, and while I do feel a little like I am missing out on the Coins, I'm not getting upset about it. You can get far better gear from Raids then is available from the vendors (Most of the time), and even if you're lacking that gear, you can easily do Heart of Fear & Mogu'shan Vaults without epic gear, it only really needs Heroic Instance Gear, and a good player.

  7. #27
    Unfortunately as it shows in the history of the WoW community they ask for something then when it gets put in game they complain like crazy as if its broken the game.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tedsterz View Post
    Unfortunately as it shows in the history of the WoW community they ask for something then when it gets put in game they complain like crazy as if its broken the game.
    This does feel like a big trend. While you can't please everyone all of the time, I'm sure if you bothered to investigate it, a lot of the people who complain about parts of the game are also the same people who don't see the full picture, or wanted it implemented!

  9. #29
    I think I've figured it out. It's the altoholics. I've wondered for a while now why some people say dailies take too much time when they obviously don't, but I understand now. It's a burden for people who think leveling 10 toons simultaneously is the way this game was actually meant to be played. I'll bet some of these people don't even have mains at all. They aren't happy unless all their toons are wearing purples, and think that's healthy. So they lash out at those of us who spend most of our time on our mains and actually like having things to do on them.

    And sure, it's Blizzard's fault. Through Dungeon Finder, the revamped old world, and heirloom gear, having a ton of alts is no longer for those that have no social life. And these people entertained themselves through the ridiculous dry spells of Cata by treating all of their alts like they are mains. Now Blizzard has come to their senses and actually discouraged such acts, and it's like taking away a junkie's crack.

    Well, you people need rehab and Blizzard needs to keep the current structure. Altoholism is not healthy.

  10. #30
    august celestiels.. days to get exalted from neutral:approx 40.
    shado pan: assuming you spent 2 weeks getting GL to revered.. take another 2 weeks getting revered with shado pan
    klaxxi: not that bad but still around 24 days till exalted
    GL: approx 28 days till exalted from neutral

    i hope u like dailys cuz you'll be doing atleast a month of em for every faction

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    You can't compare progressing in dungeons via dungeons, and progressing in dungeons via highly antisocial activity aka dailies or live on lottery.

    "Vocal minority" is already moving on, so you could enjoy doing optional dailies and grind VP 24/7 together with other like-minded. 5.1 will bring even more dailies and even more VP grind to make such people happy.

    Oh and I peek in many guilds, and wanna know situation in most of those?
    Evening. 30 people online.
    Guild chat, person A: Anyone for dungeon? Need 2 dps and healer.
    Guild chat, person B: Sorry doing dailies.
    Guild chat, person C: Just finishing Klaxxi, then logging off.


    In example, as tankadin I couldn't get proper guild group to run [barely rewarding] dungeons without pugs (and most of pugs act as if they are playing from psychiatric clinic), and was stuck to do dailies, killing anti-melee mobs with quadrillions of HP and trying to loot 10 quest objects from ground, while only 5 are up at one time, and 10+ other players around doing same as me.

    Oh, it's gonna backfire hard. Europe suffers from economic recession and paying for doing something, you don't enjoy in game, isn't really a smart move for many people, especially for those, who work for their money. Threads as this do nothing good, but only help to dig grave for WoW. Why to not help game instead? Why people want to defend destructive changes rather than oppose them and save the game, which we all loved?

    P.S.: Speaking about work, which was mentioned in original post. Does OP live from lottery or receives salary in form of lottery tickets? That's of course if he works at all, and not sitting 24/7 in game instead, "working" for some pixels.
    Wrong.

    First line makes no sense anyway so we'll skip that one.

    Glad that more OPTIONAL dailies are coming. Not every guild is like that, anti social scrub guilds maybe, but real guilds can QUEUE as they QUEST. I know, that's completely nuts!

    This thread will do more good for the game, then what the minority are trying to do to the game, actually. The people used to welfare epics and such (lich and cata starters) are the one of two reasons this game would die, the other being that something new comes along that is actually any good. Blizzard helped this game with MoP by creating a lot more things for people to do, including all of these optional dailies. The game the majority of the good player base loved was everything up until the end of TBC, everything after that was a shambles, and Blizzard admitted they made huge mistakes in Lich Fail by listening to the whiny player base that wanted everything for nothing, there was a blue post stating so too. Now they have MoP, which for a lot of people is a step back to the good days, and the majority love it. As an added bonus, all the welfare seeking scrubs are "threatening" to stop playing, which in my eyes is great for the game, the good people who stopped playing because of the huge influx of moronic scrubs, will actually come back, thus "saving" the game.

    What has my work/life/play pattern got to do with anything, seems you ran out of ideas and have made an attempt to try and justify the fail points being brought up by distracting to my personal situation. I will elaborate though, just because I want to feed your fascination of me. I work, I play on my evenings off, or my days of as and when they pop up. I work weekends, I'm up everyday at 6am (because my wife works early) with my 2yo daughter, I play when she is in bed, or if the wife takes her out or w/e. So yes my game time is a lot less then what it was back in tbc, but yet i've still managed to get exalted with August, Golden Lotus, Tillers and Cloud Serpents. Working on Shado and Klaxx next. And guess what, I even took the OPTION of skipping some dailies a few times, wish I hadn't because now my main is stood around Stormwind in full greys, all because I didn't do dailies for (irrelevant) gear.

    I'm sorry my life didn't turn out as you had planned.

  12. #32
    For me the issue isn't the effort required but the way the effort needs to be applied. I hate dailies, from Silithus to Ogri'la to Sholazar to Firelands to Halfhill I hate them; I find them boring and repetitive. Dungeons, by contrast, I enjoy because each new group makes the content more interesting. You're probably thinking "do dailies in a group" but, for some reason, the enjoyment just isn't there.

    I'm willing to put in the required effort, but I refuse to earn faction reputation through boring, repetitive quests, and would like an alternative option that requires an equal amount of effort in order to reach exalted.

    Doomhammer EU

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tedsterz View Post
    Unfortunately as it shows in the history of the WoW community they ask for something then when it gets put in game they complain like crazy as if its broken the game.
    People asked for meaningful content.
    Not the croc of shit they ended up with.

  14. #34
    Why are tedious dailies OK for welfare epics, but difficult heroics were considered not OK and were nerfed?

    Why would you rather people spend their time doing boring content than doing stuff they enjoy?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoochlol View Post
    Correct. The valor gear becomes useless within a few days of being level 90, it is too low ilvl to be classed as "needed". They are just something you pick up along the way if you do the dailies to get mounts etc.
    Wait, what? 489 ilvl items are useless few days after getting 90? How does this happen? I still have couple of them on my Heroic raiding main, and yet my alt would supposedly have no use for them? Maybe if you get carried through 16/16 and get lucky with drops they become "useless".

    If anything, it's the exact opposite. They're superior to LFR drops and they're guaranteed. Too bad you are able to buy maybe 1 of them thanks to Honored Klaxxi and after that? Sorry, VP are useless until 5.1, or you have to grind dailies. Oh, and let's not forget smartasses playing Humans, who are oh-so-surprised that it's impossible for other races to get Honored Shado-Pan through questing, and thus get more than 1 VP purchase.

    If anything, that last part is especially annoying. With Sha of Anger quest, you get roughly 5500 Friendly, and yet can't get that 500 rep until you grind all those Golden Lotus dailes. Who the hell thought this was a good idea?
    Last edited by KaPe; 2012-11-17 at 02:42 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasX View Post
    For me the issue isn't the effort required but the way the effort needs to be applied. I hate dailies, from Silithus to Ogri'la to Sholazar to Firelands to Halfhill I hate them; I find them boring and repetitive. Dungeons, by contrast, I enjoy because each new group makes the content more interesting. You're probably thinking "do dailies in a group" but, for some reason, the enjoyment just isn't there.

    I'm willing to put in the required effort, but I refuse to earn faction reputation through boring, repetitive quests, and would like an alternative option that requires an equal amount of effort in order to reach exalted.
    So you have any suggestion for how that would be done? Aside form equipping a tabard and running dungeons you would have run anyways for gear, justice points and valor points.

    Granted they could try to make daily quests feel a bit more fresh and new and try to avoid the "kill X of these" and "loot Y of these", but daily quests can in of itself involve pretty much anything and everything in terms of what you need to do.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    So you have any suggestion for how that would be done? Aside form equipping a tabard and running dungeons you would have run anyways for gear, justice points and valor points.

    Granted they could try to make daily quests feel a bit more fresh and new and try to avoid the "kill X of these" and "loot Y of these", but daily quests can in of itself involve pretty much anything and everything in terms of what you need to do.
    The tabbard thing is actually a legitimate solution. And you wouldn't even be forced to do it yourself if you preferred doing daily quests. You simply want to prevent people from acquiring the same loot you have, without doing something that you perceive to be as difficult as your daily quest grind. Some would argue that dungeons are much harder than dailies. After all, when in the history of this expansion has anyone ever failed a daily quest?

  18. #38
    What's up, +100% rep bonus
    Nyoro~n? (´・ω・`)
    5:2 diet? Pft!

    One year, 62kg/136lb lost. Only a little bit left...

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekosom View Post
    The OP was scolding people (like you) for being completely blind to the fact that rep grinding is optional.
    Everything concerning WoW is optional, including playing the game. That's a useless argument.

    Fact is that to get the most out of raiding, you have to do dailies. People still need VP-gear for their main-spec, not to mention off-specs.

    Can you raid without doing dailies? Sure, it'll just drag down your progress.

    To me that means it's not worth it. Other people still like it, that's their choice.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    So you have any suggestion for how that would be done? Aside form equipping a tabard and running dungeons you would have run anyways for gear, justice points and valor points.

    Granted they could try to make daily quests feel a bit more fresh and new and try to avoid the "kill X of these" and "loot Y of these", but daily quests can in of itself involve pretty much anything and everything in terms of what you need to do.
    My role in this is not to come up with ideas for the alternative, only to request it. It's Blizzard's role to consider my perspective, whether or not they want to spend time thinking about alternatives, whether or not they want to spend time developing alternatives, and whether or not they want to spend time implementing alternatives. Under no circumstances should somebody requesting alternatives be expected to provide ideas for said alternatives themselves.

    However, I do think that the tabard system (WotLK, Cata) and specific-dungeon-for-specific-rep system (TBC) aren't particularly good ideas. The former provides no connection to the faction and the latter forces people into specific dungeons. I'd actually be happy with giving up the chance for loot from a boss in order to gain reputation from killing them though.

    Doomhammer EU

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