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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    It is really amazing that people can read into things that aren't there as if they are looking for something to disagree with.

    Also, you are wrong about the Golden Lotus. You have to do dailies to get rep with them. Klaxxi and Shado-Pan can get to honored from normal questing but that is only 2 pecies of gear that don't necessarily require dailies (which honestly isn't much different when it comes down to it and is just picking at details). Most of their gear requires revered.
    But that's not what you said. You said you can't even spend valor on gear without doing dailies, and yes you can. It just may not be the gear you want, in which case it may be time to do a bit of work if you want something else.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    And if you weren't doing the dailies you be running the same dungeons over and over and over again. The same raids over and over and over again. The same everything over and over and over again.
    The difference being I enjoy that.

    I've never asked for dailies to be removed, simply for other options to bought in to line so that there is legitimate choice about how to obtain things. Crazy I know but it's a game and should be enjoyable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    You guys who are complaining so much about the dailies are complaining about being forced to do something you don't wanna do. Let me ask this:

    Why do I have to raid to get the best gear? Why is it Heroic modes give the best gear. I don't want to have to devote my entire life to WoW in order to get the best gear possible. Why do I have to run battlegrounds and arenas to get the best pvp gear?
    So you're saying that to get raid gear you raid, and to get pvp gear you pvp. But to do professions or entry level raiding (normals) you do dailies. What's the connection between tedious repetitive solo questing and that outcome exactly? I don't see it. People don't object to raiding for raid gear or pvping for pvp gear because they are directly on the progression path they're already taking and have some actual relation to the outcome. Dailies aren't and don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    But unfortunately, we live in a society where, especially among young adults, we expect things to be granted to us on our command for little or no work.
    Every bit of research that's been done says the average age of wow players is in the 30s, hence all the annoyance about having to log in daily and grind. Sure we were all in college when wow started, but life's moved on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    Especially in a gaming format where we "pay to play." Just because you're paying, doesn't mean you're entitled to the best shit. You have to work for it, because contrary to your logic, the world and this game do NOT revolve around you, your play style or your philosophies on what is fun or what is not.
    I don't think anyone is objecting to 'working for it', they are objecting that he work is not at all enjoyable, in a game in which it's reasonable to expect some level of enjoyment from activities. Things aren't worth more just because they weren't fun to get. And actually yes, if enough people hate dailies enough it will change, Blizzard does make an effort to be responsive to their players, they do a tonne of data analysis for that purpose so to some extent it does revolve around our collective opinions.

    I realise trashing people who hate dailies is the cool thing to do on these forums at the moment, but every poll that's been done here ends up about 55-45 to people who loathe them vs those who love them. There is a significant part of the playerbase who think this is garbage, and no amount of being scolded by people who can't cope with the fact that it's a matter of opinion and that not everyone plays the same way they do is going to change that.
    Last edited by Windfury; 2012-11-18 at 03:17 AM.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Museigen View Post
    I'm sorry but "Mandatory" and "If" contradict. Something cannot be mandatory if you absolutely do not need to do them. Considering the raids were downed fast enough without rep gear, it's proven possible to do so without it. You're wrong, you've been proven wrong and what you "want" is not relative to what is mandatory.
    I don't understand. How is, how I choose the play the game, "wrong"? Help me understand.

    And I never said anything about raiding in my post that you quoted, but you referenced raiding. So the only thing I can think of, is that you have a comprehension problem. It is also possible that you quoted the wrong poster, if so disregard this!

  4. #144
    Bloodsail Admiral Ninaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoochlol View Post
    It's a simple case of the minority complaining about being "forced" to do something which has been proven to be 100% optional
    Is it now? Then why did I have to watch videos of the story for Shado-Pan / Celestials / Exalted Golden Lotus?

    I can't even ride my Crimson Cloud Serpent..

    So sad that everybody always only thinks about progression.
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    Mastery will fix it.

  5. #145
    Bloodsail Admiral Ethes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasX View Post
    I have no problem with going out into the world but, for me, up to this point, it's a case of feeling forced to rather than wanting to.

    My two biggest motivators to play WoW are storyline and group-play; storyline finishes after you complete all the quests (or once you grind all the dailies *vomits*) and there is no group play left "out in the world" (except for the near-mythical dailies that require a group, yay dailies). In contrast I've happily leveled tanks and healers solely through the dungeon finder with short trips to Hellfire, Tundra and Hyjal to get some gear. I have no reason to ever go out into a zone once I've finished the story; it's a waste of my time. The only reason Blizzard provides are "carrot on a stick" style rewards for repetitive content I'd much rather not do, so I don't do it.

    I'm not saying that Blizzard cannot find ways to make the world interesting after reaching max level but, for me, they haven't succeeded yet.

    Additionally, I'm one of those crazy people who enjoyed it back in TBC when you made a group and flew out to the dungeon instead of queuing.
    I clearly haven't posted this enough!...
    Instead of dailies, Blizzard should make story lines through quest chains which allow you to gain rep with factions (depending on which chain you're doing). These chains should be challenging and interesting (no mindless zombie killing over and over again). They would provide a good story and possibly grindable mobs on the side (i.e. there are certain enemies you can grind next to doing the quests). Think of chains like the Karazhan attunement without all the traveling! These questchains should include elite mobs that require more than mindlessly spamming "insert powerful attack here". These quests can take you into dungeons, etc.

    There was a good example for solo content a while back although in my opinion it had a little too much grinding in it. I think the idea was to create a set of islands near Pandaria with elites and whatnot on them. In my opinion the base of that idea is really good! It would be a good way of gaining reputation without having to do a billion dailies but you won't get everything on a plate either.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    I don't understand. How is, how I choose the play the game, "wrong"? Help me understand.

    And I never said anything about raiding in my post that you quoted, but you referenced raiding. So the only thing I can think of, is that you have a comprehension problem. It is also possible that you quoted the wrong poster, if so disregard this!
    There is nothing wrong with choosing to play a certain way, as long as you are also willing to accept that making that choice may prevent you from doing certain things or having access to certain items. Where myself and others have a problem is when people say that they should have access to the exact same rewards even though they are completely unwilling to do the required content to get them. The "wrong" comes from expecting Blizzard to develop the game according to your playstyle instead of adapting your playstyle to conform to the structures of the game.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  7. #147
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoochlol View Post
    So, we all see a minority of people constantly crying over the fact that they feel as they have no option but to do dailies, and I cannot for the life of me see why they feel that way, it literally baffles me.
    Let's put it this way: just leveling Kevyne I'm so bored I'm here posting while he's sitting at a quest giver now.

    Went from difficult in Cata to sleep material in MoP. WotLK had the right balance between difficult and easy. What's going to take so long leveling Kev is due to the sheer boredom and just wanting to goto bed, instead. It's THAT boring.

    I can just imagine how the rep grind will be. -_-
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  8. #148
    Mechagnome Karot's Avatar
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    I'm still leveling my main to 90. I just got MoP a week or so ago, and I'm taking my time with it. Here's how I'll be approaching the dailys:

    1) One or two reps per day, focusing first on largest power upgrades.
    2) My Hunter is Engineering and Leatherworking. There is no gating on Engineering patterns, which just leaves Leatherworking. This makes Golden Lotus an easy target for first rep to grind, plus 3 epics (ring at Honored, and chest/shoulders at Revered). The Klaxxi will probably be the other, with The Tillers shifting in priority depending on how much I care about farming.
    3) I will probably ignore the gear upgrades for my alts. They are basically crafting alts, so I will be focusing solely on the reps that benefit their specific professions, with the possible exception of the Order of the Cloud Serpent.
    4) Only my Hunter will be getting Exalted with all the reputations. It's my main, and I see no reason to get Exalted with every rep on every character, except OCS so they can all ride the lovely Cloud Serpents.
    5) I won't be doing the dailies every single day on every single character. My Hunter will likely be my only 90 for some time, so probably by the time I get another to 90 he may already be Exalted with everything.
    6) You don't need to do ALL THE THINGS EVERY DAY ALL DAY. The expansion's going to be around for at least 1.5-2 years which is plenty of time to collect and complete everything. I still have old stuff to grind out, and if 5.1 brings the ability to run old raids without actually requiring a raid group, I can see myself being extremely busy, and never ever bored of things to do. Heck, I still haven't even maxed out Archaeology and Loremaster. I took a great majority of this year off from the game, so while everyone else was bored with DS but still grinding it out every week, I was out getting fresh air.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    There is nothing wrong with choosing to play a certain way, as long as you are also willing to accept that making that choice may prevent you from doing certain things or having access to certain items. Where myself and others have a problem is when people say that they should have access to the exact same rewards even though they are completely unwilling to do the required content to get them. The "wrong" comes from expecting Blizzard to develop the game according to your playstyle instead of adapting your playstyle to conform to the structures of the game.
    What the hell are you talking about? I am paying real money for my subscription, the game better deliver something worth that money. If the gaming company is getting my money, I damn well expect the company to adjust the game to deliver something fun for me instead of adjusting my idea of fun to fit whatever is easy for gaming companies to produce. As it is, PvE revolves around dailies and grinds so much that it simply isn't fun any more. They still keep my sub because of PvP but that's not exactly secure considering that there's plenty of good PvP games while raiding was only ever decent in WoW of all games I've tried. If I want a mindless unchallenging time-consuming grind I can do that in plenty of free to play grindfests.

    Sure, you can skip the dailies... in the same way that you can skip wearing pants to a job interview. Good luck explaining to a trade pug that you CAN clear the bosses in blues when most people in trade have a good bunch of valor gear already and good luck explaining to a proper raiding guild that you're not going to do the work to gear up yourself because you'll just get gear on guild raids. You're locked out of raids if you don't do dailies, you're locked out of professions, most of the RP content is tied to dailies this time and you'll have no reason to do heroics since you'll end up with a 460ish item level very fast and the valor is useless without reps.

    There's a lot of things to do *if* you first grind reputations. There's *nothing* besides LFR if you don't and I've yet to meet anyone that actually likes doing LFR.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    As it turns out not everybody enjoys the same things as you do. Crazy I know.
    I am shocked by this myself...we should be our own voice not the voice of the community

    There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't...

  11. #151
    Brewmaster Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaakkeli View Post
    What the hell are you talking about? I am paying real money for my subscription, the game better deliver something worth that money. If the gaming company is getting my money, I damn well expect the company to adjust the game to deliver something fun for me instead of adjusting my idea of fun to fit whatever is easy for gaming companies to produce. As it is, PvE revolves around dailies and grinds so much that it simply isn't fun any more. They still keep my sub because of PvP but that's not exactly secure considering that there's plenty of good PvP games while raiding was only ever decent in WoW of all games I've tried. If I want a mindless unchallenging time-consuming grind I can do that in plenty of free to play grindfests.

    Sure, you can skip the dailies... in the same way that you can skip wearing pants to a job interview. Good luck explaining to a trade pug that you CAN clear the bosses in blues when most people in trade have a good bunch of valor gear already and good luck explaining to a proper raiding guild that you're not going to do the work to gear up yourself because you'll just get gear on guild raids. You're locked out of raids if you don't do dailies, you're locked out of professions, most of the RP content is tied to dailies this time and you'll have no reason to do heroics since you'll end up with a 460ish item level very fast and the valor is useless without reps.

    There's a lot of things to do *if* you first grind reputations. There's *nothing* besides LFR if you don't and I've yet to meet anyone that actually likes doing LFR.
    I'm going to have to agree with Angry McGee here. I've been 90 for a while now, and I'm bored. No raiding guilds will look at me (As 25-man is the only format I desire), and pugs won't take anyone under a 475 ilvl. I've been playing since BC and I haven't been out of raiding for this long. I wish, at least, the good profession recipes weren't gated behind reputations so more people had them. Maybe then I could convince someone to craft something for me. As it is, no one I know is doing the dailies so no one has the patterns.

  12. #152
    I don't have problems putting in effort to get stuff, but why does that effort have to be in something as boring as dailies? If they gave me the alternative of running a challenge mode as a daily quest and get a rep item as reward that gives me the same amount of rep as doing a set of dailies for one faction, also locking me out from said dailies for that day (unusable if I already completed them), that would be awesome. This doesn't include queuing for anything, does not give me any other gear reward like heroic dungeons would, makes me go out in the world to summon the lazy dpsers, is the kind of group activity I expect from a MMO, but most important of all: it's actually fun.

    Also, I don't get why people keep comparing the daily grind to TBC. The factions you could actually get good gear from in TBC were grindable in dungeons or by killing mobs. Only ones I can remember that you actually had to do dailies for were Ogri'la and Netherwing. I never bothered to get exalted with Netherwing as it was just a mount faction, and as I recall, you didn't need much rep with Ogri'la to be able to use the epics that you had to repair with those apex crystals (shards?).

    To be honest, I wouldn't mind a grind with reasonable returns either (like getting rep from killing mobs or upping droprate on those keys or klaxxi shards) since then I can at least chose when I want to do my repgrind rather than only being able to do it once per day, feeling like I'm after if I miss one.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    ...Raid.

    LFR.

    Epics drop from Heroics from time to time.

    Buy them off the AH.

    Get BOEs off of mobs per usual.

    Craft gear.

    ...Shall I say more.
    And not a single piece is 489, makes you think that vp gear is kinda required.

  14. #154
    The problem is that you dont get much valor for running dungeons
    The problem is that valor gear is tied to reputation
    The problem is you could get ganked for hours trying to do dailies
    The problem is LFR loot distribution (I explained a much better loot system in a LFR loot system thread)

    There you go, now you know why people "constantly crying" as you said over the fact that they have no option but to do dalies

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    His point isn't valid. He's created yet another thread that is nothing but ripping into people who don't want to play the game the same way as he does. Telling those people how to play adds absolutely nothing to this discussion.

    Great for him if he doesn't craft, doesn't have alts, doesn't have a guild that expects you to do them and has enough time or the ability to log on each day/regularly for long enough to do them, or simply enjoys questing. But many people don't have those things and have legitimate objections as to how daily focused the game is.
    It appears to me that it's you telling other people how to play. Since you don't want to do dailies, the people that enjoy having that questing content available are faced with the prospect of having that content stripped away or otherwise limited. Blizzard isn't forcing you to do dailies; if you don't like them, don't do them. What is it about the current design that makes you think the game is "daily focused?"

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I'm going to have to agree with Angry McGee here. I've been 90 for a while now, and I'm bored. No raiding guilds will look at me (As 25-man is the only format I desire), and pugs won't take anyone under a 475 ilvl. I've been playing since BC and I haven't been out of raiding for this long.
    Part of the problem here is the introduction of an LFR tier of gear and handing us valor gear equivalent to normal raid drop gear. The gap between a 463 blue and a 489 is *huge* and there's no question about the 489 being hands down better. In early Cataclysm the first raid tier purples and heroic 5 man blues were much closer together and it was common for a normal mode raid purple with the wrong stats for your spec to not even be a big upgrade over a 5 man blue. You could get some of those entry level epics from reputation grinds but the gap between those and 5 man blues was not large enough that they would put you a ton ahead of someone who didn't get them.

    Now the difference between being in 5 man drops and being in valor gear is similar to what the difference between having blues and heroic mode raid gear is and since the valor gear is a reward from a trivial but time consuming grind we are getting massive inflation in item level expectations.

  17. #157
    I like how people in this thread are missing something rather important: Yes, alts can just live off of LFR.

    But.

    Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Spring require 470 itemlevel while Mogu'shan Vaults only require 463. What's that, only 7 itemlevels difference? No problem?

    What about bad luck. Try running Mogu'shan 2 weeks in a row and only get gold.

    My warrior was barely able to get 470 itemlevel, that was only because I did dailies for rep (and I had already done it on my main once) and got a temporary item to fill a slot.

    My shaman is on 467 itemlevel for weeks now. I refuse to spend gold on AH, and I don't want to do dailies for rep. I want to get its gear from LFR. But guess what - I have no luck whatsoever and thus haven't been able to do HoF so far on that character.

    My DK is on 463. 0 drops since the start of expansion in LFR. Zero. Null. And yes before you ask, I leveled all those characters up within the first week of MoP.

    I top healing on my shaman. I take 0 hits from devastating combo on my warrior and DK (both tanks), as well as manage cooldowns and everything else perfectly well, explain tactics for HoF etc etc. Good players seem to get punished with rng.

    Whoever thought it was a good idea to make HoF and ToES require higher itemlevel was an idiot and should be fired.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoochlol View Post
    Wrong.

    Firstly, you have a bad case of selective reading and misunderstanding text. As I said, and I guess i'll have to repeat myself. It has nothing to do with the way I play and the way others play, the main point is very clear, the dailies are optional, 100% optional. The raiders, alts and socials in any guild find the situation the same, and again it's very simple, the dailies make no difference to progression. Normal raids are cleared in heroic blues and some boe's from the ah, not a hint of dailies is needed for that.

    Secondly, there are plenty of working adults who play wow, if you can't manage your time then that's an issue you have to deal with. You are not "behind" because you can't do optional dailies, it would make no difference if you could do them or not.

    Next, your point about crafting. Seriously, the standing required is honoured, that is a complete minimum of effort, and again, OPTIONAL, the items crafted are boe, just buy them? They are dirt cheap now too, because again, the ilvl is useless now. You have 5 tailors, and you just must have the pattern for the bag on all 5 chars? Wrong, and again, OPTIONAL, you don't have to, you don't have to get them on any char, you again could just buy them from the ah. The points you make just highlight more, the fact that all of these dailies are a simple case of "do or do not".
    It's only the better raids that can clear it in blues. A lot are stuck on it with better gear. Blizzard have posted and agreed that normal people need better gear than blues to be able to get through SPV, which they think is as it should be. There's always some that can do it in less gear, but most wanted the valor gear for it. It's less important now with LFR, but some of the valor gear is higher lvl with a good margen, and hence desireble.
    But the further we get in the expansion the less it matters.

    Agreeing that you really don't need the same recipe on 5 alts. That's silly. Make the cloth on each alt, and send it all to the one that have the recipe, and be happy with the saved time

    I did the dailies in the beginning and got most to revered rather fast(i hate dailies), which was what i felt was needed the first days since i didn't know when we would be ready to raid. Was wasted time, but didn't know that back then.
    Now i just take it slow with the rest. I know my tailor will have to get to revered for his bags, but that's about it.

    So overall i agree with OP :P

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 12:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinderofl View Post
    I like how people in this thread are missing something rather important: Yes, alts can just live off of LFR.

    But.

    Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Spring require 470 itemlevel while Mogu'shan Vaults only require 463. What's that, only 7 itemlevels difference? No problem?

    What about bad luck. Try running Mogu'shan 2 weeks in a row and only get gold.
    "two weeks" and no gear isn't "bad luck" It's plain normal :P you don't have a 50% dropchance off bosses, and you never had.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinderofl View Post
    Whoever thought it was a good idea to make HoF and ToES require higher itemlevel was an idiot and should be fired.
    Gearlvl is higher in there, and people wipe well. It looks like a good idea to me.

    You could buy things of AH, or lvl BS up, for chest and gloves. Do sha of anger and hope for drops there. Lvling in Dread Waste makes you honored with klaxxi from what i recall, so you can get some gear there with a bit of luck. Buy/make a trinket. Now you have not done any dailies, but er getting close to get in, in the new raids on LFR and rage about not getting 5 loot-items first time.
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  19. #159
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    Once we are a patch or two into the expansion leveling and gearing alts will be as easy as you remember it (and I'm referring to selective memory here).
    Lets hope it doesn't get cataclysm - easy.
    There you played an alt for what 2 days after a patch and were left with nothing to do but grind valor again.. <_<

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  20. #160
    You know, the 8th anniversary bonus seems pretty funny now. Bonus reputation from kills, woah! That will be so helpful when grinding ... um... well... Wait, the only reputation you get from kills is Prince until honored.

    Not a big thing, but still - pretty amusing.

    Also, did another person just post about getting Shado-Pan honored from questing? It doesn't happen unless you're a human or use some other reputation bonus in addition to guild perk. Otherwise, you're "almost there but not quite".

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