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  1. #161
    I am Murloc! Rorcanna's Avatar
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    The whinging will no doubt have them make the vendor rewards require friendly. God forbid that someone actually plays the game in order to get a reward! It doesn't even take me one and a half hours to do the dailies for 4 factions, but then again crying and saying "I am a casual/I have work/I have a family!" takes a lot of time and energy so I understand why some people struggle. Having just 2 hours to play each day and expecting epic gear though is right about the attitude that Blizzard promoted with WOTLK and Cata.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by darthshatner View Post
    It appears to me that it's you telling other people how to play. Since you don't want to do dailies, the people that enjoy having that questing content available are faced with the prospect of having that content stripped away or otherwise limited. Blizzard isn't forcing you to do dailies; if you don't like them, don't do them. What is it about the current design that makes you think the game is "daily focused?"
    If you'd gone back and read my post history, or even checked my other posts in this thread you would see that I've *always* said, across literally dozens of posts, that dailies should stay but rewards between the various different ways of earning rep should be better balanced to provide viable options for people who don't enjoy/can't do dailies can earn the rewards in a way in which they enjoy. I don't have a problem with other people having fun (I wonder how many would actually do the dailies for fun if they were genuinely optional?), my problem is when I'm not having any. Given all of the 'MoP is about giving you options to play how you want' talk I don't see why it's that hard to y'know, have some more viable options to achieve the same ends.

    What is making the game daily focused is that you have to do dailies if you want to craft, to get generally accepted gear levels, to get coins, to join raid groups, to app to guilds, to join pugs, to basically participate in the server/game community. As someone who plays as a crafter could you explain to me how I can do that without doing dailies exactly, given that a large number of patterns require revered/exalted? While I acknowledge nothing in the game is mandatory, to participate fully in that aspect of the game you have to do dailies right now. Ok so the answer is don't participate fully, but honestly that's boring and not fun which is what people are complaining about.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by darthshatner View Post
    It appears to me that it's you telling other people how to play. Since you don't want to do dailies, the people that enjoy having that questing content available are faced with the prospect of having that content stripped away
    What the actual fuck? Has anyone actually wanted dailies removed? Here's how I would fix this:

    Add a bunch of valor gear without item level requirements in the game
    Remove valor requirements from reputation items, just make them free once you unlock them (but obviously re-tune the rate of reputation gain and actual rep requirements for this)

    There would be a way to keep up with gear for people who won't do dailies but can only raid occasionally (either because it's an alt or because a player can't log in during the prime raid hours and thus can't find a guild etc) and there would be stuff to do for solo grinders. Someone who would do it all would get gear faster than others. That's the way it used to be and what was the problem with that? The tabards giving you the reputation for free? Just remove the tabards, have some valor-free reputation rewards for people that want to solo grind and have some valor rewards that need no rep for people who enjoy doing group content. True obsessives can do it all if they want but to prevent them from getting super geared without raiding you can make the rewards overlap (ie give a valor belt and a reputation belt).

    Blizzard isn't forcing you to do dailies; if you don't like them, don't do them.
    Yes we can indeed quit the game. The point once again is there is nothing whatsoever to do in PvE unless you grind dailies. You won't get into a decent raiding guild if you apply telling them you won't grind gear. You won't get into trade pugs as 463 gear is now universally considered crap and not enough for raiding by trade pugs. You have no reason to run heroic 5 mans because the valor is useless without rep. You have no reason to run scenarios that reward valor and gear that will get you kicked out of pug raids. You have no reason to do professions since the recipes are mostly hidden behind the rep grinds.

    We are not forced to play WoW indeed but we *are* forced to do the dailies if we actually want to play WoW for more than sitting in Orgrimmar and queuing for PvP. Funnily enough, that's all I'm doing in MoP, all because of the dailies that were supposed to get me out of Orgrimmar.

    What is it about the current design that makes you think the game is "daily focused?"
    I log in on an alt, there's nothing to do since I'm not willing to do dailies to unlock the game, I log out.

    Eventually I go do some PvP where funnily enough I don't have to do any solo grinding at all to actually get into the group content of a multiplayer game. Hmm, I have an idea. What if we added arena rating requirements for gear? You can't wear your valor epics unless you get enough arena rating first. Wouldn't that be a great idea? Those of us who enjoy PvP could sit here in QQ threads and tell people to l2p, you don't NEED that gear to clear normal mode raids, you don't HAVE TO PvP at all since you don't NEED to have this gear and so on?

    Or how about making valor gear require you to do a few hundred pet battles to encourage people to experience that new content?

    The problem with the whole thing is that some of us enjoy the group content of this game but not the solo content. Now we are being told we must solo grind for access to group content rewards. Just please separate the different aspects of the game, I don't want to do solo grinding, I don't want to do pet battles, I don't want to do achievements, I don't care if people get handed a ton of free stuff for doing all that as long as I'm not blocked out of group content rewards because I didn't do some solo grinding.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    The whinging will no doubt have them make the vendor rewards require friendly. God forbid that someone actually plays the game in order to get a reward! It doesn't even take me one and a half hours to do the dailies for 4 factions, but then again crying and saying "I am a casual/I have work/I have a family!" takes a lot of time and energy so I understand why some people struggle. Having just 2 hours to play each day and expecting epic gear though is right about the attitude that Blizzard promoted with WOTLK and Cata.
    2 hours to play? Hardly. With all the complaining I imagine most of those people effectively cut their playtime by half.

  5. #165
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    I think it took me 30 days.
    It took me longer, because I brake for squirrels.
    Funny enough, this was actually true. lol

    When I started I believed that if I run over something it would die. (blush)

    Seriously, OP has a valid point.
    Anyone claiming their army of alts as a counter reason, your point is moot and invalid. you cannot blame your "obsession" onto others, or the game.
    Whenever we make a new toon, we must expect that we will have to level that toon up again at some point. The more such toons we make, the more we have to face the leveling process.
    Leveling cannot be designed towards an army of toons. It has to be designed towards ONE toon. And it always has been that way.
    Alts are typically made, and played when a players main toon is pretty much done with the current content, and time opens up for something else. Or as a change of pace, to so something else, other than the daily routine with the main.
    That is however seldom the case at the beginning of an entire expansion. In fact, it's good that way.
    If the game was designed that everyone could have 5, 6, 7 toons all fully geared out and up to speed on the content, then we would have a huge problem with the content. It would be too easy, it would get boring within a week....
    Mass cancellations could be a very possible side effect.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    The whinging will no doubt have them make the vendor rewards require friendly. God forbid that someone actually plays the game in order to get a reward! It doesn't even take me one and a half hours to do the dailies for 4 factions, but then again crying and saying "I am a casual/I have work/I have a family!" takes a lot of time and energy so I understand why some people struggle. Having just 2 hours to play each day and expecting epic gear though is right about the attitude that Blizzard promoted with WOTLK and Cata.
    You seriously think 2 hours a day, which is 14 hours per week, or approximately 1/7 of your entire waking life is *not* enough time investment to justify some sort of reward/enjoyment? Good god. If I'm putting 15% of my life into something yeah, I think I'd want a reward out of that. That is not an unreasonable expectation. It's a game, not a career. And lets be real here, that's understating. For actual adults with real jobs 2 hours a day is ~30-50% of their free waking hours monday-friday. That is a lot. It's a huge amount of time to commit on a daily basis. Damn right anyone who can manage that feels entitled to some reward.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post
    I am doing klaxxi/shado pa dailies .. and i hate to think i wont need to do them anymore one day..
    Klaxxi, August Celestial and Tilers are my favorites. Shado-pan is cool too.

  8. #168
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaakkeli View Post
    What the actual fuck? Has anyone actually wanted dailies removed? Here's how I would fix this:

    Add a bunch of valor gear without item level requirements in the game
    Remove valor requirements from reputation items, just make them free once you unlock them (but obviously re-tune the rate of reputation gain and actual rep requirements for this)

    There would be a way to keep up with gear for people who won't do dailies but can only raid occasionally (either because it's an alt or because a player can't log in during the prime raid hours and thus can't find a guild etc) and there would be stuff to do for solo grinders. Someone who would do it all would get gear faster than others. That's the way it used to be and what was the problem with that? The tabards giving you the reputation for free? Just remove the tabards, have some valor-free reputation rewards for people that want to solo grind and have some valor rewards that need no rep for people who enjoy doing group content. True obsessives can do it all if they want but to prevent them from getting super geared without raiding you can make the rewards overlap (ie give a valor belt and a reputation belt).



    Yes we can indeed quit the game. The point once again is there is nothing whatsoever to do in PvE unless you grind dailies. You won't get into a decent raiding guild if you apply telling them you won't grind gear. You won't get into trade pugs as 463 gear is now universally considered crap and not enough for raiding by trade pugs. You have no reason to run heroic 5 mans because the valor is useless without rep. You have no reason to run scenarios that reward valor and gear that will get you kicked out of pug raids. You have no reason to do professions since the recipes are mostly hidden behind the rep grinds.

    We are not forced to play WoW indeed but we *are* forced to do the dailies if we actually want to play WoW for more than sitting in Orgrimmar and queuing for PvP. Funnily enough, that's all I'm doing in MoP, all because of the dailies that were supposed to get me out of Orgrimmar.



    I log in on an alt, there's nothing to do since I'm not willing to do dailies to unlock the game, I log out.

    Eventually I go do some PvP where funnily enough I don't have to do any solo grinding at all to actually get into the group content of a multiplayer game. Hmm, I have an idea. What if we added arena rating requirements for gear? You can't wear your valor epics unless you get enough arena rating first. Wouldn't that be a great idea? Those of us who enjoy PvP could sit here in QQ threads and tell people to l2p, you don't NEED that gear to clear normal mode raids, you don't HAVE TO PvP at all since you don't NEED to have this gear and so on?

    Or how about making valor gear require you to do a few hundred pet battles to encourage people to experience that new content?

    The problem with the whole thing is that some of us enjoy the group content of this game but not the solo content. Now we are being told we must solo grind for access to group content rewards. Just please separate the different aspects of the game, I don't want to do solo grinding, I don't want to do pet battles, I don't want to do achievements, I don't care if people get handed a ton of free stuff for doing all that as long as I'm not blocked out of group content rewards because I didn't do some solo grinding.
    We have arena rating as requirement for gear..... Top tier always needs that.
    You need 10 wins and you got your top epic. PVP grants you an epic every week. This cannot be said about PVE.
    The PVP/PVE skill debate is moot here too... It's proven that it has nothing to do with anything whether one prefers PVP or PVE.
    Skilled players are on both sides of the aisle. And the fact that someone knows how to PVP decently doesn't make them a good raider at all.

    Thinking that there is nothing to do in the game is completely false.
    There's an entire game with a vast amount of content sitting to be done. We can choose what we want to do.
    I can keep myself so tied up in all kinds of activities that I sometimes forget I'm not valor capped for the week yet, and have to get my ass in gear for the last two days.
    Now I see, how one could feel like they have nothing to do, if their intention is nothing else but running dungeons and raids, or arenas and rbgs.
    But that is then your exclusive "problem". You misunderstand the game in the first place.
    It's not an interactive version of some arcade game.
    If you are bored, try running your head against a brick wall in challenge modes. do scenarios, do whatever else....
    But don't blame your lack of enthusiasm and narrow minded views onto the games design and mechanics.

    The times for handouts are over, at least for now.

  9. #169
    News flash. Its a game. Playing it is 100% optional. That does not make a part of the game well designed or desirable. And categorizing people you don't agree with as a minority without any statistics is hardly impartial.

    I voted with my wallet and cancelled my account. You can rant and rave about how people should 'lurve' dailies but i don't care. And I seriously doubt I was the only one who cancelled their account over it.

  10. #170
    Stood in the Fire gurv's Avatar
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    If you want the profession recipes, you *have* to do the dailies.
    There is absolutely *NO* other way.

    For enchanters, it's really easy, as it's only grinding 3 reps to revered through 100 rep daily quests.
    /sarcasm

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 03:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dodonpachi View Post
    News flash. Its a game. Playing it is 100% optional. That does not make a part of the game well designed or desirable. And categorizing people you don't agree with as a minority without any statistics is hardly impartial.

    I voted with my wallet and cancelled my account. You can rant and rave about how people should 'lurve' dailies but i don't care. And I seriously doubt I was the only one who cancelled their account over it.
    My thoughts exactly.
    Except I made the mistake to take a 6 months sub at MoP's launch (I still had a little faith in Blizzard even if it should have been obvious that they're not even the shadow of their former self). So I will follow in 4 months.

  11. #171
    i was thinking of a solution blizz could try implementing : once u get a faction to exalted you could buy an accountwide badge of honor or something that you could send to your alt giving you increased rep for every daily quest of that faction you would need to do. thus making the grind less difficult.. maybe 50% more rep gained. plus with each faction needing to be exalted first you'd atleast have to work hard for that rep once.

  12. #172
    Dreadlord Ninaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by casually View Post
    i was thinking of a solution blizz could try implementing : once u get a faction to exalted you could buy an accountwide badge of honor or something that you could send to your alt giving you increased rep for every daily quest of that faction you would need to do. thus making the grind less difficult.. maybe 50% more rep gained. plus with each faction needing to be exalted first you'd atleast have to work hard for that rep once.
    Something like that is coming with 5.1 You can buy it with Revered and gives you double reputation for that faction with every character on your account. This also halves the reputation needed from Revered to Exalted.

  13. #173
    Warchief Byniri's Avatar
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    The only problem I have with dailies is that the 140 rep reward it gives is too low.
    PEPE SILVA, PEPE SILVA

  14. #174
    Bloodsail Admiral hiragana's Avatar
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    The main thing i hate about the grind is profession recipes. If they made it so some factions werent hidden behind others that would make it a lot more bareable. As it is im not levelling any other alts to 90 until they change it, which will probably mean il run out of stuff to do very soon.

  15. #175
    Over 9000! Gheld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoochlol View Post
    The dailies work just as they did in TBC (I guess the people crying about it missed the only good expansion pre-mop), whereas if you wanted mounts etc, you earned it.

    Actually, now I brought TBC up, the people crying about dailies now, all probably missed attunements. That's right, raids back then required you to do quest chains just to get through the doors, you have it extremely easy now, it's quite sad.
    Other than a few scattered dailies, most of the Dailies in TBC didn't come around until shattered sun offensive.

    Other than that the primary way of getting rep in TBC was grinding it in dungeons and with rep turn ins.

    I was there, but I have to question whether you were.
    Last edited by Gheld; 2012-11-18 at 04:08 PM.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    If you'd gone back and read my post history, or even checked my other posts in this thread you would see that I've *always* said, across literally dozens of posts, that dailies should stay but rewards between the various different ways of earning rep should be better balanced to provide viable options for people who don't enjoy/can't do dailies can earn the rewards in a way in which they enjoy. I don't have a problem with other people having fun (I wonder how many would actually do the dailies for fun if they were genuinely optional?), my problem is when I'm not having any. Given all of the 'MoP is about giving you options to play how you want' talk I don't see why it's that hard to y'know, have some more viable options to achieve the same ends.

    What is making the game daily focused is that you have to do dailies if you want to craft, to get generally accepted gear levels, to get coins, to join raid groups, to app to guilds, to join pugs, to basically participate in the server/game community. As someone who plays as a crafter could you explain to me how I can do that without doing dailies exactly, given that a large number of patterns require revered/exalted? While I acknowledge nothing in the game is mandatory, to participate fully in that aspect of the game you have to do dailies right now. Ok so the answer is don't participate fully, but honestly that's boring and not fun which is what people are complaining about.
    I think what we have here is an unfortunate example of me completely misconstruing an argument. Whoops!

    But if I can play devil's advocate a moment, what do you think would be a good alternative to reputation rewards? I can see your point about the crafting recipes, especially; my main is exalted with the Shado-Pan, and I'm not exactly looking forward to repeating the rep grind with my enchanting alt to get those formulas. At the very least, I'd like to see those made BoA. That said, I don't think it's unreasonable for Blizzard to require some effort on the part of players to learn those formulas. I suppose they could offer them as trash drops in raids, much like the high-end crafting recipes for other professions.

    And what about gear? There are several valor items that only require honored rep, which isn't very difficult at all to attain—even if you aren't fond of daily quests. There are also many ilvl 476 and 496 BoEs to be had. I suppose it would be nice to have a few pieces available from non-faction vendors, but I get the impression that Blizzard is hesitant to make too much raid-quality gear available at not-even-close-to-raid-quality effort. Still, anyone willing to invest their time should be able to make progress towards accomplishing their goals, and if that isn't the case, then hopefully it will be.

  17. #177
    No one forces you to do dailes just like no one forces you to watch a really shitty program on TV

    it there for some/most to enjoy.

    Personally some of the dailies are doing my head in BUT i hope Blizz dont cave in to the QQers.

  18. #178
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    Other than a few scattered dailies, most of the Dailies in TBC didn't come around until shattered sun offensive.

    Other than that the primary way of getting rep in TBC was grinding it in dungeons and with rep turn ins.

    I was there, but I have to question whether you were.
    to add to this in bc the only way to get honor hold rep was to run helfire citadel instances for example, each zone on outland that had dungeons in it also had a faction that it accoiated with

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninaran View Post
    Is it now? Then why did I have to watch videos of the story for Shado-Pan / Celestials / Exalted Golden Lotus?

    I can't even ride my Crimson Cloud Serpent..

    So sad that everybody always only thinks about progression.
    You didn't HAVE to watch anything, you had the OPTION to look away, or go make a coffee instead?

    Pretty sure you have other mounts that can fly, so again, if you want to fly a serpent, you have the OPTION of earning that right.

    OPTIONAL progression. Makes no difference if you do them or not.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 08:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    Other than a few scattered dailies, most of the Dailies in TBC didn't come around until shattered sun offensive.

    Other than that the primary way of getting rep in TBC was grinding it in dungeons and with rep turn ins.

    I was there, but I have to question whether you were.
    As do I with you. Not all rep was gained through dungeons, I can think of 6 or 7 that had DAILIES as the ONLY way of getting rep, plus shattered sun. The factions had absolutely no effect on progression as it was (just like it is now) mounts as the main reason for levelling the rep. You clearly started in Lich, poor you

  20. #180
    Over 9000! Gheld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoochlol View Post
    As do I with you. Not all rep was gained through dungeons, I can think of 6 or 7 that had DAILIES as the ONLY way of getting rep, plus shattered sun.
    Name them.

    The factions had absolutely no effect on progression as it was (just like it is now) mounts as the main reason for levelling the rep. You clearly started in Lich, poor you
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Consortium

    Rep gained by Mana Tombs instance and various item turn ins
    Rewards: Epics, Rares, and crafting patterns.

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Cenarion_Expedition

    Rep gained by Coilfang Resevoire instances and various item turn ins.

    Rewards: Epics, Rares, crafting patterns, and the Hippogryph

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Honor_Hold (or horde equivalent)

    Rep gained by 1 daily quest, otherwise Hellfire Citadel dungeons.
    Rewards: Epics, Rares, and crafting patterns.

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Keepers_of_Time

    Rep gained by CoT dungeons only.
    Rewards: Epics, Rares and crafting patterns.

    Aldor or Scryers
    Rep by item turn ins,
    Rewards: Epics, Rare and crafting patterns.

    The main story-line related factions did not have daily quests. They had some of the regular quests lines, and rep turn in quests. And the awards could help with progression, in fact essential gem cuts and leg armors were rewarded by them. Aldor/Scryers provided shoulder enchants.

    The raid related factions were advanced with trash/boss rep and rewarded epic crafting recipes and minor ugprade pieces (usually rings). With the exception of Shattered Sun Offensive, which had daily quests.

    The factions that did have daily quests were fully optional and rewarded 'fun items' that didn't help with progression.

    Daily questing didn't become a broad part of end game progression until WoTLK. (but was optional because of rep tabards, although you were initially forced to daily your way to hodir exalted for shoulder enchants)

    Cata continued the "Daily or Dungeon" model.

    Non Daily rep+Quartermaster with free epics and important crafting recipes STARTED IN TBC and remained until MoP.

    EDIT: Forgot http://www.wowwiki.com/Lower_City

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