Heroic progression Path

[Riemu2k3]

Quick Question regarding Wind-Lord Mechanic: On normal mode when you kill the first group of adds, you can only cc 2 adds and if you have cced more than that, every cc will break.

From watching a couple of videos i noticed, that on heroic the cc doesnt brake? is there any change? from normal to heroic? how many adds are you allowed to cc? always 3, no matter how many group are alive?

[Deleted]

Considering we just went 4/6 HC MSV, having killed Gara'jal in 5 pulls and Elegon in 9, what should we aim for next?
Blade-lord?
Garalon?
Wind-lord?

Or should we maybe stick to MSV and start learning Spirit Kings?

we went bladelord last nite and killed it in about 15 pulls, was very easy imo, probably easier than elegon. we're gonna go spirit kings next, which after a few attempts doesnt seem that hard, just need soem time to practise it and get used to reacting to different combos.

[thsoern]

we went bladelord last nite and killed it in about 15 pulls, was very easy imo, probably easier than elegon. we're gonna go spirit kings next, which after a few attempts doesnt seem that hard, just need soem time to practise it and get used to reacting to different combos.

Did it the other way, but thats pretty much it. Spirit Kings seems to be hard, but after some practice its just waiting for the right combo... Bladelord is pretty simple, his dot is ticking pretty hard. p2 is, like in normal mode, the key to your kill.
i would go Kings>Blade>Will or Wind>Garalon

[Dracodraco]

Quick Question regarding Wind-Lord Mechanic: On normal mode when you kill the first group of adds, you can only cc 2 adds and if you have cced more than that, every cc will break.

From watching a couple of videos i noticed, that on heroic the cc doesnt brake? is there any change? from normal to heroic? how many adds are you allowed to cc? always 3, no matter how many group are alive?

Can always CC 3, they respawn 45 secs after they die again, so gotta deal with adds + wind bombs at the same time.

[Deleted]

Did it the other way, but thats pretty much it. Spirit Kings seems to be hard, but after some practice its just waiting for the right combo... Bladelord is pretty simple, his dot is ticking pretty hard. p2 is, like in normal mode, the key to your kill.
i would go Kings>Blade>Will or Wind>Garalon

for us, having a single paladin made the encounter extremely easy. He made the debuff so easy to deal with... whenever we got sucked in and had to run away, he'd use Hand of Purity, and the dot did hardly any damage. Then when we stacked up for the big strike, the debuff guy would use a personal CD or we'd use an external 1 (warrior would intervene, druid would use 20% reduc, priest bubble, banner etc.. most the time they would have a personal cd tho).

We 3 healed it druid/shaman/priest.. but priest was mainly smiting, and he died in phase2.. could easily have 2 healed it in all honesty.



what raid comp did u use for spirit kings? ive heard ppl saying 2 heal 2 tank, or 1 tank 3 heal, then others sayin 1 tank 2 heal...

Was thinkin about going for 2 heal 2 tank, havin our priest go shadow, as we need him for mass dispel, will be easier on teh mana in shadow spec probably.

2 tanks purely because when 2 boss's come out it can be a lot of damage, and i read about 2 tanks takin the cleave on 1st boss and stuff.

[AgilityTank]

Spirit Kings Heroic is easily 1 tankable and is also 2 healable w/an enrage that shouldn't propose an issue. If you want a 3rd healer I'd take a smite heal but I'd highly suggest 1 tank 2 heal.

[Deleted]

Did Spirit Kings 10 HC on Sunday and killed it in a few hours (20ish pulls).

We 1 tank, 2 healed it and it was fine. The overall damage going out is very low, and only picks up again in the final phase (a large proportion of which can be mitigated if you have access to a Shaman in the raid and they use Glyphed Grounding Totem). Nearly all the abilities are one shots if you get them wrong so it's not like a third healer would help with that.

Here is our video in case it helps. We are by no means a world class raid group so any guild with an acceptable level of gear and a brain should have no problems.

http://youtu.be/j0Gn2JsC-QM

[Deleted]

2 tank is too risky imo, 2 tank 2 healer is fine.

when the 2nd boss comes out the tank can take quite huge damage, and he wont always have a CD up. if hes gotta kite 2x boss's away frm healers in flankin (yes i know ull say thats bad communication or w/e, but it happens) its gonna be very sketchy.

not only that... but when the shadow boss is at <30% and meng comes out, if ur DPS is somewhat slow.. ull get a shadow shield with a madening shout... if u stack on the boss's to AOE players down and accidently AOE the shadow shield... boom.

we always have our shadow tank move the shadow boss away when a madening is comin so we dont accidently AOE It.... obviously u can stack not next to the tank, but imagine this...

meng with 50+ energry (hittin pretty hard), plus shadow boss.. hes takin all taht dmg, plus has to take more dmg from madenin before he gets out, it can get rly sketchy there also if hes not using a small cd.


enrage isnt an issue 2 tank 3 healin, so i cant see how 2 tank 2 heal is an issue

Did Spirit Kings 10 HC on Sunday and killed it in a few hours (20ish pulls).

We 1 tank, 2 healed it and it was fine. The overall damage going out is very low, and only picks up again in the final phase (a large proportion of which can be mitigated if you have access to a Shaman in the raid and they use Glyphed Grounding Totem). Nearly all the abilities are one shots if you get them wrong so it's not like a third healer would help with that.

Here is our video in case it helps. We are by no means a world class raid group so any guild with an acceptable level of gear and a brain should have no problems.

http://youtu.be/j0Gn2JsC-QM

what are u using groundin totem for? (soz if its blatantly obv, its early!)

u use it to reflect damage back at everyone? isnt that the same as just general AOE?

[atlantez]

Wind Lord Heroic 10man is probably the easiest heroic in HOF, took us 3 pulls, and 1 of them was because I forgot to interrupt my mender (forgot to focus + macro); the dude dies in 4mins-ish. Great fight for Recount ;-)

Blade Lord is pretty easy as well, Tempest Blade is almost a non-issue, and after that it's just more DPS and using the 11% zoom back trick;

Haven't tried any other heroics yet, but we are going to try: Vizier, then Garalon.

As long as you have a rogue then Heroic Will is not that hard at all, and on Kings they changed the other to be fixed now, so no more randomness, yaaay! Elegon is even easier on heroic than normal (same goes for Wind Lord btw) due to not having much raid damage at all in the first two stages.

Quite curious how Vizier is going to play out though...

[AgilityTank]

but when the shadow boss is at <30% and meng comes out, if ur DPS is somewhat slow.. ull get a shadow shield with a madening shout... if u stack on the boss's to AOE players down and accidently AOE the shadow shield... boom.

Imagine this - maddening shout goes off after zian's dead when you 1 tank 2 heal. If the tank doesn't have cd's for one tanking it's bc they're overusing them @ points where they aren't necessary. If dps or heals can't handle 2 tank 1 heal then you have number issues.

[Deleted]

what are u using groundin totem for? (soz if its blatantly obv, its early!)

u use it to reflect damage back at everyone? isnt that the same as just general AOE?

Although in the video here I actual fail both times at dropping at the correct time (Best Shaman EU), if you dropping Glyphed (only works with Glyph) Grounding Totem just before (around 80 energy) he casts Cowardice it stops you getting the debuff and for some reason the totem stays up so you then never get the debuff.

Combine this with Call of the Elements you can get 30 secs of pure DPS with no damage being reflected back.

[Deleted]

Although in the video here I actual fail both times at dropping at the correct time (Best Shaman EU), if you dropping Glyphed (only works with Glyph) Grounding Totem just before (around 80 energy) he casts Cowardice it stops you getting the debuff and for some reason the totem stays up so you then never get the debuff.

Combine this with Call of the Elements you can get 30 secs of pure DPS with no damage being reflected back.

oh i see thats pretty good, we normally nuke thro but slow down around 80 energy ish, and stop completely if a madening is incoming.






ive heard a lot of ppl saying windlord is really easy, hopefully going to give it an attempt this week.... got a boomkin for 1min mass dispel, and a disc priest for dispels, 2x mages/shaman/2x prot wars for individual dispels.

from wot ive read, its all about keepin the quickening debuffs off, cc'n 3 amber trappers and putting a bubble on the target when bladerush comes... avoid rain of blades during the enrage part (30secs after adds die).. and obv avoid bombs at <70%.

5min fight.. how hard can it be rly!?

[Dracodraco]

oh i see thats pretty good, we normally nuke thro but slow down around 80 energy ish, and stop completely if a madening is incoming.






ive heard a lot of ppl saying windlord is really easy, hopefully going to give it an attempt this week.... got a boomkin for 1min mass dispel, and a disc priest for dispels, 2x mages/shaman/2x prot wars for individual dispels.

from wot ive read, its all about keepin the quickening debuffs off, cc'n 3 amber trappers and putting a bubble on the target when bladerush comes... avoid rain of blades during the enrage part (30secs after adds die).. and obv avoid bombs at <70%.

5min fight.. how hard can it be rly!?

More like, two trapper and 1 blademaster kept cc'd, else the amber trappers will never die :<. If 1 blademaster is CC'd, their charge won't oneshot a full hp target.
Quickening has to be dispelled ASAP yes, or you'll wipe. Alot. Rain of blades can just be CD'd during enrage, but if he's got a stack or two of quickening, then it's also a wipe (35% dmg per stack on top of it).

[Serb]

More like, two trapper and 1 blademaster kept cc'd, else the amber trappers will never die :<. If 1 blademaster is CC'd, their charge won't oneshot a full hp target.
Quickening has to be dispelled ASAP yes, or you'll wipe. Alot. Rain of blades can just be CD'd during enrage, but if he's got a stack or two of quickening, then it's also a wipe (35% dmg per stack on top of it).

From 10 man perspective , it's super easy and perfectly viable to CC all three trappers really.
Personals or pre-shielding people for Strikes and you shouldn't lose anyone due to charge.

[Dracodraco]

From 10 man perspective , it's super easy and perfectly viable to CC all three trappers really.
Personals or pre-shielding people for Strikes and you shouldn't lose anyone due to charge.

Well, that requires people to be on their toes for blademasters (not to mention, they hit harder than amber trappers on tanks), especially the disc priest. And if they have 1 stack or more, they'll end up breaking the shield and killing the person (it won't be shielding for more than 100K or so, so 380K dmg with a 100K absorb shield, and 160*1.35=216K, so 436K dmg, which will rape most classes). Doesn't seem worth it :/.

[Deleted]

3 blademasters should hit for about 340-380k (after armor mitigation) depending on if its a plate-cloth user... and up to about 520k with a stack of quickening (the whole point is to stay ontop of dispelin them tho?)... with a 20% dmg reduction cd ur lookin at 300k to 416k (quickenin buffx1)... with a shield from priest, ur basically fine.

we've been practising using personal CD's in normal mode, as we cc 2 trappers 2 menders and leave all blades up to practise.. our preist has also been practising shielding for the rush's and no1s come close to diein on normal yet.

theres pros and cons to both strat.... CC all 3 trappers and its a pretty simple stand still fight... use cds when u need to, move from wind bombs, and nuke... if u go with 2 trappers 1 blade, theres a lot less risk of a blade killin some1, but ull have to deal with that annoying trapper crap (kiting the shit that falls frm u, and prisons).


we'll see how hc goes

[Deleted]

Blade Lord is pretty easy as well, Tempest Blade is almost a non-issue, and after that it's just more DPS and using the 11% zoom back trick;

Could you enlighten me to this "11% zoom back trick" please

[Serb]

Well, that requires people to be on their toes for blademasters (not to mention, they hit harder than amber trappers on tanks), especially the disc priest. And if they have 1 stack or more, they'll end up breaking the shield and killing the person (it won't be shielding for more than 100K or so, so 380K dmg with a 100K absorb shield, and 160*1.35=216K, so 436K dmg, which will rape most classes). Doesn't seem worth it :/.

I guess it depends on your raid comp/group: for us it worked really well. Tho our set up was carefully planned for it with two priests (disco+shadow) , 2 shamans and myself removing Quickening most of the time. Didn't experience a lot of deaths from those.
Healing the tank wasn't an issue at all after 1-2 wipes when healers organized themselves and got used to the fight.
Having warrior tank with glyphed shield slam helped dispelling also .

---------- Post added 2012-12-12 at 12:37 AM ----------

Could you enlighten me to this "11% zoom back trick" please

I believe he refers to phase 2: When boss reaches ~11%, people use those streams on the side in order to reach another platform in matter of seconds.
Boss will "teleport" there at 10% and those streams+tornado's will switch direction as well.
If you time it well , it saves you quite some time and gives healers some breath.

[Dorfie]

You should definitely CC all 3 amber trappers in 10 man. All it takes is a priest shield, pally sac or personal cooldown to survive the charge (which comes pretty infrequently) and the fight becomes 10 times easier.

---------- Post added 2012-12-12 at 02:44 AM ----------

Could you enlighten me to this "11% zoom back trick" please

When the boss hits 11-12% run back to the other side through the wind tunnels. You should get back there in about 10 seconds without having to dodge any tornadoes and DoTs will take the boss to 10%.

[Dracodraco]

3 blademasters should hit for about 340-380k (after armor mitigation) depending on if its a plate-cloth user... and up to about 520k with a stack of quickening (the whole point is to stay ontop of dispelin them tho?)... with a 20% dmg reduction cd ur lookin at 300k to 416k (quickenin buffx1)... with a shield from priest, ur basically fine.

we've been practising using personal CD's in normal mode, as we cc 2 trappers 2 menders and leave all blades up to practise.. our preist has also been practising shielding for the rush's and no1s come close to diein on normal yet.

theres pros and cons to both strat.... CC all 3 trappers and its a pretty simple stand still fight... use cds when u need to, move from wind bombs, and nuke... if u go with 2 trappers 1 blade, theres a lot less risk of a blade killin some1, but ull have to deal with that annoying trapper crap (kiting the shit that falls frm u, and prisons).


we'll see how hc goes

I'm not convinced that armor mitigates the damage they do. My deterrence doesn't reflect it, and when I have deterrence up, they hit me for 60-70K or so. 160K*0.85=136K (aspect of the iron hawk), 153K*0.5=68K (deterrence 50% reduc). With my 35% reduc from armor, they shouldn't hit me for more than 50K, but I can assure you that they've never hit for less than 60.

Regardless, as you say, there's pros and cons to both. I just don't see what the big deal about dealing with the trapper is, to be honest. It's not like you don't have enough space in 10 man to kite the resin, and you'll have far less melee to fuck up the amber prison. It's less tank damage, and you can line up 3 sets of recklessness buff to KO the boss, instead of just 2.