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  1. #1
    Pit Lord Malgru's Avatar
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    [Boomkin RBG] My friend's damage is abysmal and I don't know why.

    He repeatedly insists that he's playing his spec right. Was doing RBGs today, he was last on damage. Every. Single. Game. for 9 games. He's full dreadful and 1pc (on use trinket) Malevolent. We ran double DK, double Demo lock, boomkin, ele sham. Ele sham had 1pc (wrists) malevolent and had greens for 3 slots. And the ele out damaged the boomkin. All games the druid pulled 7-9 mil damage except 2. In which he did 2.5mil and 4.3 mil. Every other dps (except ele) pulled 14mil+ damage. The ele normally pulled 9-12 mil. I'm really not sure what the boomkin's doing. He says that he pops cds but then instantly dies. Except he's died less than everyone else.

    So really.. what should a boomkin be doing? Starfall off CD, regardless of eclipse state? Focus on DoTs and don't cast wrath/starfire, and let starsurge get you to eclipse? Or what about Astral Communion (I think that's what its called - it brings you into an eclipse state)? Should a boomkin be doing high dps or are they just garbage? Any help is nice, getting tired of carrying that load tbh. Thank you.

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Sykol's Avatar
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    Honestly, and I don't think this will be much help since I don't know druids or shamans too well when it comes to PVP, I don't think there should ever be a situation when a shaman does more DPS than a druid in any spec. It sounds like he needs to research a bit more and make excuses a bit less.

  3. #3
    I don't think there should ever be a situation when a shaman does more DPS than a druid in any spec
    This really isn't the place for it, but you're so hilariously wrong...

    To answer the question, your friend is shit. Replace him on your rbg team, or find someone to teach him how to play.

  4. #4
    Maybe he's not attacking much. lol.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Sykol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    This really isn't the place for it, but you're so hilariously wrong...
    Like I said, I'm not up to date on the PVP situation, but from personal experience and everything I've seen in logs, druids should be a good amount ahead of shamans when it comes to DPS. Especially feral, which is basically the equivalent of Wrath's arcane mage spec.

    Edit: And yes, I know he's boomkin. But I was just saying for argument's sake.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Malgru View Post
    He repeatedly insists that he's playing his spec right. Was doing RBGs today, he was last on damage. Every. Single. Game. for 9 games. He's full dreadful and 1pc (on use trinket) Malevolent. We ran double DK, double Demo lock, boomkin, ele sham. Ele sham had 1pc (wrists) malevolent and had greens for 3 slots. And the ele out damaged the boomkin. All games the druid pulled 7-9 mil damage except 2. In which he did 2.5mil and 4.3 mil. Every other dps (except ele) pulled 14mil+ damage. The ele normally pulled 9-12 mil. I'm really not sure what the boomkin's doing. He says that he pops cds but then instantly dies. Except he's died less than everyone else.

    So really.. what should a boomkin be doing? Starfall off CD, regardless of eclipse state? Focus on DoTs and don't cast wrath/starfire, and let starsurge get you to eclipse? Or what about Astral Communion (I think that's what its called - it brings you into an eclipse state)? Should a boomkin be doing high dps or are they just garbage? Any help is nice, getting tired of carrying that load tbh. Thank you.
    I run with a 2300+ MMR group that usually has a boomkin in its composition, and he continually sits in the top 3 in terms of raw damage. Theoretically, Frost DKs, Destro Locks and good Spriests are the only classes that should be beating him in damage if each plays their spec properly.

    He should be using Starfall on CD. There's a way in which he should be able to use 3 Starfalls in 15 seconds at the start of the team fight (Astral Communion to 75% Lunar - using it in Lunar - and then using it with Incarnation when that is finally over.) He should also be doing unbelievable spread damage with Incarnation and his other CDs up. During Incarnation he should never be casting anything. Use Moonfire on every target to get dots up and use instant Starsurge procs whenever they pop up. Outside of that he should be tab-dotting everything and using Starsurge procs on kill targets.

    There is actually a rather high skill cap to boomkins. Terrible boomkins do terrible damage, while very good boomkins do outrageous damage.

  7. #7
    I don't think there should ever be a situation when a shaman does more DPS than a druid in any spec

    Elemental burst completely and utterly destroys both Druid specs in a 10 second window. Druids have ramp up time for both specs, Elemental and Enhance both don't. Again, this isn't the place for this argument, but please don't make broad over the top statements that aren't even true. They make my head hurt.

  8. #8
    Pit Lord Malgru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    To answer the question, your friend is shit. Replace him on your rbg team, or find someone to teach him how to play.
    He's my cousin so I feel obligated to bring him. And I tried getting the shaman (who is the alt of a 2600 druid) to explain to him what he should be doing and he didn't listen.

  9. #9
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Elemental burst completely and utterly destroys both Druid specs in a 10 second window. Druids have ramp up time for both specs, Elemental and Enhance both don't. Again, this isn't the place for this argument, but please don't make broad over the top statements that aren't even true. They make my head hurt.
    The argument wasn't "who does more damage in a 10 second window", but "who does more overall damage at the end". Druids with their multidotting, turret abilities with shooting stars procs, starfalls, and CA+NV+Incarnation can be really disgusting. Blanketing CA+NG+Inc dots over an entire group is pretty damning.

    I really have absolutely no experience in an RBG scenario, but in standard BGs, I usually crush the meters. I realize that there's probably huge gear discrepancies (but I really don't have amazing gear either), but if he's consistently bottom, it's not the spec, it's him. I'd suggest looking for youtube videos, etc., maybe catch some streams.

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  10. #10
    Immortal apepi's Avatar
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    How is he besides damage?On heals and getting objectives? He might just be focusing on those and cc instead of damage. I find it very easy to get side tracked from not damaging things.Having low damage in rbgs does not necessarily mean that he is a bad player, he could just be doing different things.
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  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Ethes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malgru View Post
    He's my cousin so I feel obligated to bring him. And I tried getting the shaman (who is the alt of a 2600 druid) to explain to him what he should be doing and he didn't listen.
    This is a very easy way to kill your RBG team if you want to play competitive. Feeling obligated to bring somebody thats not very good usually doesn't go well with the other people in your RBG. That said, make him improve his game. Tell him you can't bring him if he's underperforming and put some facts under his nose. If he doesn't improve, replace him. If you don't want to replace him, you can say goodbye to running a competitive RBG team in the long run.

    You have responsibility to your players first, to your friends and family next. If you don't follow this order, they can easily find a place which does work this way.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Venteus's Avatar
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    Very little help in this thread...

    Anyway, this is what I do. I'm only experienced in 2k RBGs right now in this expansion, though, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

    I start up on lunar eclipse. Immidiately pop starfall when we engage. I also like to open with NV/Incarnation to get things going. If it is an FC map and the FC is visible, I spread dots to that target + another target (so atm, only 2 targets have dots rolling).

    At 16 second left on NV/Inc I pop celestial (don't forget to use starfall again). That's when I go crazy spreading my dots (one GCD = 2 dots, even on nearby pets). This is also likely where the enemy team will try to CC you (if they're smart), so I try my best to save my trinket for this CD.

    While CDs are down I keep dots spread on as many targets as possible and use starfall on cooldown. All starsurge procs are thrown at my target caller's target. I tend to top meters, if I'm beat It's usually by a lock or a DK. In essence, I do very little hardcasting. I'm almost always spreading dots, the only exception is when the target caller calls in a kill.
    Last edited by Venteus; 2012-11-25 at 07:35 AM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    The argument wasn't "who does more damage in a 10 second window", but "who does more overall damage at the end".
    No, it wasn't. It was a broad spectrum sentence.

    "I don't think there should ever be a situation when a shaman does more DPS than a druid in any spec"

    A Shaman won't EVER do more damage than a Druid? Sorry, but being naive enough to think that Druids will out dps Shamans in every single possible situation is just silly, and a shows blind faith in your class. My point is that he shouldn't have made such a broad statement considering how insanely good Elemental Burst is compared to the ramp up time Balance and Feral have.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malgru View Post
    He's my cousin so I feel obligated to bring him. And I tried getting the shaman (who is the alt of a 2600 druid) to explain to him what he should be doing and he didn't listen.
    The shaman explained to your cousin? and cousin didn't listen?

    You shouldn't feel "obligated" to bring your cousin if he sucks and doesn't want to improve. Obligation is bringing him in to test- if he sucks and doesn't want to improve, kick his ass out. Now, its entirely possible that, those rbgs you been doing, he barely saw ANYONE at all, but, im thinking, no.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire Machomaije's Avatar
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    As a boomkin at 2.2k rbg rating i got to say your friend is doing something wrong. Or, hes doing everything wrong. A boomkin should always be top on the dps, behind a frost dk ofc.

    You should replace him. Playing balance druid does require more skills than most faceroll classes. And if he doesnt have these skills, and wont listen, he most likely wont get it either.

    DoT all things up, get starsurge procs, use starfall on cd, astral communion every time ur not in eclipse, use shrooms if its a fight with a lot of people hugging, clone healers or melee dps'ers, root healers and blanket them with solar beam and vortex inside the beam, pop all cds in the first mid fight and when your supposed to go on their fc.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Sykol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    No, it wasn't. It was a broad spectrum sentence.

    "I don't think there should ever be a situation when a shaman does more DPS than a druid in any spec"

    A Shaman won't EVER do more damage than a Druid? Sorry, but being naive enough to think that Druids will out dps Shamans in every single possible situation is just silly, and a shows blind faith in your class. My point is that he shouldn't have made such a broad statement considering how insanely good Elemental Burst is compared to the ramp up time Balance and Feral have.
    Ahoy there, Captain Literal. May I come aboard the SS Verbatim?

    As I said, I don't think there should be a situation where a shaman does better DPS than a druid at this point in the game. I didn't say a shaman would never outdo a druid, but there shouldn't be a point where one does unless the druid is doing something horribly wrong.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sykol View Post
    Ahoy there, Captain Literal. May I come aboard the SS Verbatim?

    As I said, I don't think there should be a situation where a shaman does better DPS than a druid at this point in the game. I didn't say a shaman would never outdo a druid, but there shouldn't be a point where one does unless the druid is doing something horribly wrong.
    There's actually when shaman is free to spam chainlightning for maximum cleave, but i don't think it's a realistic situation for rbg setting.

  18. #18
    Brewmaster Stommped's Avatar
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    First of all, DKs should always beat everybody in terms of raw damage in BGs. Second of all, there is more going on here than simply this druid needs to learn to play. There is so much we don't know about this situation that it's impossible to tell what the immediate problem is for his low damage.

    Is he new to the game? Does he have any competitive PvP experience? Being able to press the correct buttons on a training dummy is a lot easier than pressing the correct ones in an RBG situation.

    You say he dies less than most people. First of all considering your group I find that hard to believe. In terms of the DPS, he and the Shaman are by far more easily killed than the 2 DKs or 2 Warlocks. But even still, is he focused a lot? CC's and pressure can really limit the damage potential of Boomkin in RBGS. Now I get the sense that the MMR on this group isn't very high, but a good team will instantly Blanket --> CC chain whenever CA is popped (sometimes Incarnation too if your specced for it). A Boomkin who is free to cast during all of his CAs vs. one who isn't can easily make up the difference in millions of damage over the course of a BG. Also just getting focused makes it really hard to keep up damage wise. You cannot cast Communion, you will have to use globals on typhoon, healing touch, rejuve to keep yourself alive, you will likely be stunned etc.

    Are you sure he is actively involved in every group vs. group conflict? A lot of teams will forget after the match is over that they left a certain player to guard Lumber Mill for about 5 minutes while there was a big battle going on at Gold Mine. The games where he did 2M dmg seem likely to be this case.

    However my big suggestion for something that should help him is to get Tidy Plates. First of all, make sure he is using nameplates to begin with; then have him install Tidy Plates which will allow him to know which targets need refreshed dots without having to tab through them all.
    Last edited by Stommped; 2012-11-26 at 08:29 PM.

  19. #19
    The Patient Principe's Avatar
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    I play at 2400 rating on my boomkin typically and there is not a single time I am below more then one persons damage. The only person that should be outdamaging him is a frost dk and possibly a warlock.

  20. #20
    Just keep dots on all possible targets and use starsurge on instant procs spam starfall on CD. easiest class ever to beat most ppl in group as dmg

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