Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
... LastLast
  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral Giants41's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New York, United States of America
    Posts
    1,064
    Blizzard? Joking?
    Wow <3 Korra<3 Giants<3

  2. #22
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    4,415
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    If they nerf PvP Power, then hybrids will just gather as much Int as possible to make up the lost healing.
    We will, but currently power scales significantly better for hybrids than even our main stats do, this will fix that back to what blizzard intended.
    Youtube ~ Yvaelle ~ Twitter

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    If they nerf PvP Power, then hybrids will just gather as much Int as possible to make up the lost healing.
    as a ret paladin, int does absolutely nothing for me.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  4. #24
    enhance heals are already a joke, now I get to pick between a 30k healing surge or a 5k lightning bolt
    might as well not use MSW for anything but hex

    Not sure how anyone could complain about ret at all, I've been queueing at 2.2k-2.5k MMR all season and have seen exactly one ret team - it was Vanguards. The spec isn't really viable at all unless you have other R1s to prop you up.
    Last edited by Lassira; 2012-11-18 at 04:09 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    By comparison, boomkin Healing Touches in equal gear are consistently larger than my Flash Heals, and boomkins don't need to leave and re-enter boomkin form to cast direct heals via: Glyph of the Moonbeast, while Shadow does via: Glyph of Dark Binding.
    You realize healing touch heals more than flash heal because it takes 2.5 seconds to cast while flash heal only takes 1.5?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    Pvp power is scales too quickly and in a way that somehow they didn't see coming. Allowing classes to double dip on it in a sense to make things much stronger then they should be really exposed that.
    All you need to do is graph it.....do they not know math at blizzard?
    >.>

  7. #27
    Retribution is one of the hybrids you consider off-heals? Really? Flash of Light healing for nothing and you get two, MAYBE three before going oom? WoG is a great self-heal, but apparently you don't have a problem with that. It's strong, but it also sacrifices the whole time it took to build up the HP to end up not doing any damage with a finisher. If anything, WoG is strong, but not overpowered. You're complaining about a spec that can go into an arena and sit there having to charge up HP for one spell. At that point it's a crappy healer and if you can't survive Crusader Strikes and Judgments you have a problem. Also, Boomkins aren't worse than Paladins for their self-heals, they're just a bad PvP spec.

  8. #28
    Scarab Lord Firebert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dat Ingurlund, brrrrrap
    Posts
    4,988
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    as a ret paladin, int does absolutely nothing for me.
    You understand the sentiment.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 0/5/5 | TPR: 0/2/2
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Legendary Overlooked

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by zyzz View Post
    There has been mention of nerfing pvp power to only increase dmg/heals depending on your spec. How does this help with balance. Spriest and ret pallies (offhealing) is over the top, but why should other hybrids suffer the burden?

    OP Heals
    Spriest - From my knowledge they have power word: shield, flash heal, prayer of mending, renew. (Tool kit is to diverse)
    Rets - Flash of light, word of glory. (Problem lies in rets offheals, and self heals are actually fine. but this is my opinion.)

    Also: is feral/boomkin/elemental/enhance OP? Better question: Are they OP due to self healing?

    What would the outlook be for these above classes?

    Spriests/Rets are still above the rest of the hyrbids so how does this bridge the gap?

    In summary, i don't know what the phuck blizzard are smoking.
    ermm?? am guessing u dont play a sp, if they stop dps to start healing they are oom in no time
    Last edited by mainman; 2012-11-18 at 04:39 AM.

  10. #30
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    4,415
    Quote Originally Posted by openair View Post
    You realize healing touch heals more than flash heal because it takes 2.5 seconds to cast while flash heal only takes 1.5?
    I do, but when he's talking about 300k heals, and calling out shadowpriests and rets, my point was that shadowpriest heals are a) smaller than boomkin heals (which are in turn also far smaller than ret heals, which are still way below 300k outside of cooldowns), b) that at 55k shadow heals are close to 1/6th of what he's suggesting, and c) that it's not shadow heals (or even ret heals) its all hybrids scaling too well with pvp power. Boomkin heals obviously should be (and consequently are) larger than shadow or ele heals because they take longer to cast.

    To talk specifically about boomkin heals though, 2.5s cast is deceptive, since it benefits far more from haste than does a 1.5s cast - and since boomkins get the proc that ups their haste a bunch (and is multiplicative with their existing haste obviously), so very often that cast is actually closer to like 1.8 or 1.9 seconds I'd guess. What's more, like I mentioned - they aren't having to leave moonkin form, heal, then re-enter moonkin form like shadow does - which if you need healing, you are very often taking damage (borders on tautological) - so keeping damage reduction during those times is quite valuable. All three hybrid caster specs have strengths to their heals - pointing out shadow as some kind of exception is just incorrect.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2012-11-18 at 05:06 AM.
    Youtube ~ Yvaelle ~ Twitter

  11. #31
    Ret is already in a weak position (just look at representation). Selfless healer is the only thing that makes Ret even remotely useful. Rets have decent burst but is not nearly as good as other classes. Word of Glory is a decent heal but Rets have to sacrifice the majority of their pressure to use it. Also, healing is the only defense a Ret pally has other than an 8 second (50% damage output reduction) dispellable immunity on a 5 minute cooldown. I just don't see how such a major nerf can be justified.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    You understand the sentiment.
    what i'm trying to say is that people don't understand the distinction between the two kinds of hybrids.

    melee hybrids are not a problem, they are underpowered if anything.
    the problem is caster hybrids who's massive mana pools and lack of resource cost allow them to often replace an actual healer.

    the pvppower nerf will hurt the melee hybrids a lot more then it will the caster hybrids, and they don't deserve to be nerfed because they are not a problem.

    blizz needs to go in and specifically address the specs that are the problem ( shadow, balance, ele) and leave the ones that are not problems ( ret, enhance, WW) alone. either by tweaking pvppower specifically for caster hybrids, or significantly raising the mana costs of their offspec spells.

    unless they give ret, enhance and ww damage output buffs to compensate for the loss of their healing output a lot of these specs are going to be irreparably damaged in terms of their pvp viability.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    what i'm trying to say is that people don't understand the distinction between the two kinds of hybrids.

    melee hybrids are not a problem, they are underpowered if anything.
    the problem is caster hybrids who's massive mana pools and lack of resource cost allow them to often replace an actual healer.

    the pvppower nerf will hurt the melee hybrids a lot more then it will the caster hybrids, and they don't deserve to be nerfed because they are not a problem.

    blizz needs to go in and specifically address the specs that are the problem ( shadow, balance, ele) and leave the ones that are not problems ( ret, enhance, WW) alone. either by tweaking pvppower specifically for caster hybrids, or significantly raising the mana costs of their offspec spells.

    unless they give ret, enhance and ww damage output buffs to compensate for the loss of their healing output a lot of these specs are going to be irreparably damaged in terms of their pvp viability.
    WW heals do not scale with pvp power and MW damage doesn't scale with pvp power as long as they stay in the healing stance. Just wanted to correct that.

    Anyway, I think it is clear by now that Blizzard really doesn't care about some specs when it comes to pvp balance. The totem silence nerf should make it clear enough that they don't mind if the DPS specs of Shamans are viable in pvp or not as long as Resto is balanced and I'm sure this is the same for the other hybrids.

    I personally find it a huge flaw in the game because someone who might have rolled a Shaman could not have done it exactly because they wanted to heal but are pigeon-holed into that role if they want to play at everyone's level.

    The only real abusers of this whole pvp-power thing are Shadows, so why not simply tweak their heals? Ret, Enh, Ele and Boomkin are viable in the current state of the game after 1 entire expansion of crappiness, partially thanks to the fact that can offheal a little. Why bring them from good-average to shit again?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by zyzz View Post
    This would make more sense if 6/6 hybrids were OP.

    Being OP or not only has so much to do with it. When things aren't functioning they way they want them to they should fix it. If classes need to be fixed also then they should do that as well. One doesn't really have anything to do with the other. Say you have 6 cars all of them have the same problem a few others have other problems you don't not repair the issue and decide to walk from now on because the issue has a bigger effect on some of them.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  15. #35
    It's not a joke, it's called balance.
    "PvE is like playing chess against an opponent that makes the same moves everytime"

    "PvP is like playing chess"

  16. #36
    The thing is that these changes won't change much at all in the end.

    Shadow- Will simply just stack more Int instead of PvP power to have the same result. So those of you thinking shadow deserves this, while possibly correct, won't be happy with the end result still.

    Ret- Well, I haven't played ret since the start of cata, so I can't really comment on their need to heal to be viable, but in the end, they won't be fixed either way so deal with it.

    Shaman- Resto is the only viable spec for PvP not because the others need the off healing capabilities to compete, but because there is a spec that does everything their other two specs do, but better, and the only way to fix that would be to give them the same tool kits that other specs have which won't happen.

    Druids- I knew going into this xpac that druids were the class to watch out for, and I'm actually a little surprised I haven't seen more QQ about them. They are all strong specs, and this change will actually hinder them the least in all reality. ESPECIALLY boomkin. Since boomkin can just do what Shadow will do and go to straight int stacking instead of PvP power. The rest of the specs receive their Int from agility conversions, so if they really needed more healing they just stack more agility.

    In the end though, none of you should be surprised that they aren't willing to fix the real issues.

    There is only so much time left of WoW. Believe it or not there are only two years left (give or take about 6 months) and WoW is over. They aren't going to spend their development time totally rehauling things that don't really need to be rehauled to keep people playing. If Shaman players made up a large amount of subs and all of a sudden they all stopped playing instead of just re rolling, then maybe they would fix it. It's the same reason why you won't be seeing too many new model updates and such either.

    Titan is the new WoW, and the things we are getting the most of are things that are being tested for Titan. CRZ, challenge modes, and those sorts of things are going to take precedence because they are transitioning away from WoW. That's why they are being lazy about this kind of stuff. In the end I'm surprised they don't just tell us that we are lucky that we have PvP at all and to suck it up. Because they have been pretty obvious about the fact that PvP and it's balance have never and will never be their #1 priority.

    TLDR: Don't be surprised, because it will only get worse the closer we get to lvl 100.

  17. #37
    pvp power for hybrids had to be nerfed. if you cant see why then maybe you are playing it wrong.
    it is better for the game over all. people are sick and tired of having to arena with double "healer" comps since a hybrid can off heal very effectively which result in longer / less punishing / retard (excuse me language) friendly games.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by cexspa View Post
    it is better for the game over all. people are sick and tired of having to arena with double "healer" comps since a hybrid can off heal very effectively which result in longer / less punishing / retard (excuse me language) friendly games.
    I prefer those 'double' healer comps to a warrior pressing a macro and globalling someone or a frost mage practically killing anyone in a deep freeze every 30 seconds any day. Look at which one they are 'fixing' better?

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    All you need to do is graph it.....do they not know math at blizzard?
    >.>
    This is often the first question asked by ppl and a very fair one. It clearly isn't that simple. 11 classes with 34 specs and even more combos of choices and crazy combos of talents. This will slip through the cracks sometimes. Having so many ppl beta test this time around is also partly to blame having over a million ppl bitch and moan about their classes real suggestions and bug reports go unnoticed.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  20. #40
    Nerfing PvP Power for hybrids is a solid move as getting flat % increases for Damage and Heals is bad game design

    Although its a valid argument that this nerf will hit some hybrids harder than others
    meaning while Spriest will be bought in line, Enhance / Ele and to some extent Rets will feel gutted

    Ideally Blizzard should buff the survivability and/or damage potential of these classes to compensate

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •