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  1. #1

    PVP power nerf must be a joke?

    There has been mention of nerfing pvp power to only increase dmg/heals depending on your spec. How does this help with balance. Spriest and ret pallies (offhealing) is over the top, but why should other hybrids suffer the burden?

    OP Heals
    Spriest - From my knowledge they have power word: shield, flash heal, prayer of mending, renew. (Tool kit is to diverse)
    Rets - Flash of light, word of glory. (Problem lies in rets offheals, and self heals are actually fine. but this is my opinion.)

    Also: is feral/boomkin/elemental/enhance OP? Better question: Are they OP due to self healing?

    What would the outlook be for these above classes?

    Spriests/Rets are still above the rest of the hyrbids so how does this bridge the gap?

    In summary, i don't know what the phuck blizzard are smoking.

  2. #2
    Pvp power is scales too quickly and in a way that somehow they didn't see coming. Allowing classes to double dip on it in a sense to make things much stronger then they should be really exposed that.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    Pvp power is scales too quickly and in a way that somehow they didn't see coming. Allowing classes to double dip on it in a sense to make things much stronger then they should be really exposed that.
    This would make more sense if 6/6 hybrids were OP.

  4. #4
    What, so they can't nerf a broken aspect of the game because some speccs aren't strong enough to function without it? If this is the case, then maybe it would make more sense to first fix PvP power and then see if some of the hybrids needs tuning to make up for it? I don't know, just seems logical to me.

  5. #5
    Ret is not Op at all and isn't even the target of this nerf.

    Infact if Ret couldn't offheal (which you need to stop all dps to do) they would be the worst spec for pvp in the game.

    This nerf will hurt Ret paladins more than any other class by a long shot.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Shagina View Post
    What, so they can't nerf a broken aspect of the game because some speccs aren't strong enough to function without it? If this is the case, then maybe it would make more sense to first fix PvP power and then see if some of the hybrids needs tuning to make up for it? I don't know, just seems logical to me.
    Yeah. Except when your talking about ret. Then its just 'nerf' and move on. Just because gimmicky X made ret slightly 'viable' doesn't mean they will fix the spec. Been like this since the start of wow. I'd gladly allow them to fix this broken aspect if they actually did something about the spec, but they won't, and this 'fix' will go live. Oh well. PvP is already terrible and patch 5.1 does nothing to fix it >.<

    Quote Originally Posted by zyzz View Post
    Problem lies in rets offheals
    Thats due to the talent selfless healer and has nothing to do with pvp power. Its the reason why self heals are fine but offhealing isnt....

  7. #7
    So because you feel that Blizzard are neglecting your specc which happens to benefit from a broken aspect of the game it should not be fixed? I still fail to see the logic here.

  8. #8
    cant wait for the shadow nerf

  9. #9
    the amount of healing none healers can do is over the top, it was over the top last expansion and more was added, yes some classes are worse then other, but healing as a dps's utility package will always be lazy and bad design as you will keep running into situations like triple dps last season.
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  10. #10
    People complaining about dps doing a moderate amount ofh ealing and no1 complains about healers doing same damage as some pure dps classes does?
    wow...just wow.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shagina View Post
    So because you feel that Blizzard are neglecting your specc which happens to benefit from a broken aspect of the game it should not be fixed? I still fail to see the logic here.
    By all means fix it. Just don't say that they will do anything to fix the spec. They never have and never will.

    Besides;

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @JeffLukka because we think Ret in PvP is fine, just with too much healing. Often players don't want a response - they want to argue.

    Not even worth trying anymore, this game is beyond a joke for balancing now.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orgamason View Post
    People complaining about dps doing a moderate amount ofh ealing and no1 complains about healers doing same damage as some pure dps classes does?
    wow...just wow.
    Must be some really sucky dps classes then. But I'm sure you can back up your statement with enough consistent evidence
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by orgamason View Post
    People complaining about dps doing a moderate amount ofh ealing and no1 complains about healers doing same damage as some pure dps classes does?
    wow...just wow.
    200-300k crit heals from a dps spec isn't "moderate" and more then 1 spec can do it and btw the power change effects the healer dps as well...so.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    200-300k crit heals from a dps spec isn't "moderate" and more then 1 spec can do it and btw the power change effects the healer dps as well...so.
    Seems about right when warriors are critting 300k+ heroic strikes off the gcd. Oh wait that isnt being fixed (at least in 'patch notes').

  15. #15
    Brewmaster Olianda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    200-300k crit heals from a dps spec isn't "moderate" and more then 1 spec can do it and btw the power change effects the healer dps as well...so.
    It's moderate when you consider that warriors can practically two-shot someone with enough stacks. It's what, eighteen seconds before a paladin can hit three stacks?
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible View Post
    Must be some really sucky dps classes then. But I'm sure you can back up your statement with enough consistent evidence
    Yes indeed, very sucky dps classes or how about very crowd controlled players? I suppose you think dishing out 400k damage in about 10 sec as healer is OK? Or how about 40k non-crit wraths from restodruids?


    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    200-300k crit heals from a dps spec isn't "moderate" and more then 1 spec can do it and btw the power change effects the healer dps as well...so.
    Haven't seen a single hybrid dps that does those amounts of healing in a single heal, not when playing myself and not while watching higher ranked players play.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by zyzz View Post
    There has been mention of nerfing pvp power to only increase dmg/heals depending on your spec. How does this help with balance. Spriest and ret pallies (offhealing) is over the top, but why should other hybrids suffer the burden?
    lol no. the egregious offenders and the targets of this nerf are boomkins, shadowpriests and to a lesser extent elemental shamans.

    rets, and other melee hybrids who have offhealing capacity are all actually very very balanced.

    here, let me explain ret off healing to you, a lot of people obviously don't understand it because they keep claiming its overpowered.

    a large portion of ret's play is based around resource management, ramp up time and cooldown burst.

    all of ret heals either have
    a. a significant resource cost that if they make the decision to heal they can't put out damage.
    b. a significant ramp up time. selfless healer takes at minimum 8 seconds ramp up time to be useful, its usually used after 12 seconds. after it has been used it takes another 8-12 seconds to ramp up.

    i don't play enhance, and i'm not hugely familiar with it, but as far as i understand it, they function similarly
    enhance shamans use their maelstrom stacks, which takes a few seconds to build, to put out instant heals, for them to use those stacks to heal they have to give up instant hexes and instant lightning bolts.
    they sacrifice control and damage to heal, just like rets do.

    compare shadowpriests who in the past could drop out of shadowform and sacrifice damage reduction and damage output to pump out some fairly powerful heals, but it obliterated their mana pools fairly quickly and opened them up for swaps because they no longer had the defenses of shadowform.
    right now? they no longer have to drop out of form, and their massive mana pools allow them to pump out heals with out any significant resource cost.

    there is no reason that hybrid specs like rets, and enhance shamans, who don't have any particularly glaring balance issues, or particularly high arena rep should suffer because blizz is trying to control a spec with insanely high rep with a chain saw instead of a scalpel.

    if the pvp power nerf goes though, both enhance and ret need to be compensated in terms of their damage output because their off healing is a half their worth to a team because while both specs have decent burst their overall damage is rather mediocre.
    Last edited by kosechi; 2012-11-18 at 01:31 AM.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by orgamason View Post
    Haven't seen a single hybrid dps that does those amounts of healing in a single heal, not when playing myself and not while watching higher ranked players play.
    Ret can do it with wings + guardian + 3x selfless healer, can get crits between 150-250k. But thats every 5 minutes for 20 seconds or so. Has to be on ally of course. Probably more rare than 5 stacks of TfB is at the moment though lol

  19. #19
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    If they nerf PvP Power, then hybrids will just gather as much Int as possible to make up the lost healing.
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  20. #20
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    I'm not sure why you think only Shadow and Ret have strong self-healing right now, in near-full epic pvp gear, using full pvp power gems in every slot even over int, my flash heals land for 55k.

    By comparison, boomkin Healing Touches in equal gear are consistently larger than my Flash Heals, and boomkins don't need to leave and re-enter boomkin form to cast direct heals via: Glyph of the Moonbeast, while Shadow does via: Glyph of Dark Binding. Elemental Shamans Healing Surge is the weakest of the three caster hybrids (slightly less than Shadow's Flash Heal) but elemental shamans can cast it while moving (re: kiting) and don't risk going OOM the way shadow does when direct healing. Rets have the largest heals, and they are instant - so I can see why you pick on them - but really rets have been balanced around having heals like that for over an expansion now.

    The problem isn't specific classes, and I wouldn't even argue that it's hybrid heals being too strong right now (they're strong, they aren't imbalanced yet) - the problem is how incredibly potent the double scaling effect of pvp power makes hybrid healing, and to a lesser extent - healer burst damage during kills. For non-hybrids, pvp power is a very potent stat (and it needs to be, to discourage pve gear in pvp) - but for hybrids it's often tied or just slightly behind our best dps stat (ie. int) AND tied or just slightly behind our best survivability stat (resilience). If it's bordering on being too strong now, what will happen when we're all in full 483 gear, or worse - what happens next season or the one after that?

    It has to scale as only a dps or only a healing stat, and I'm super happy they took my suggestion on this (even though it's obviously a nerf to me)
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