What are they? In a Pve setting
What are they? In a Pve setting
Last edited by pkm; 2012-11-18 at 03:57 AM.
I'm not really sure what you want as an answer here but I guess...
Slower to take down mobs so slower to finish quests. But as you are a tank, you are ready if something goes wrong and you agro a whole shit ton of mobs at once and can't get away.
You'll get a group in seconds of starting Dungeon finder as a tank! But when DPS sod things up, tanks still get the blame
Sorry I thought it was clear. How do Prot warrior compare to other tanks when tanking?
How do they compare? All 5 classes are fairly equal. As far as warrior's strengths, excellent melee and magic damage reduction, unmatched mobility, outstanding fucking beards.
Only thing I would say the weakness is picking up new adds with AoE. I find myself with TC/SW on CD, and only Revenge to pick up new adds.
I agree on with the lack of AoE threat, compared to other tanks we have the weakest AoE. Im not sure if I am just not doing it right, but in our raids lets say there would be a group of 10 mobs in a pack, our DK tank will always have 7 and I 3.
Blood dks are the best tanks in the game atm. Worst being lolmonks.
...and then...fucking ponies everywhere.
even though it was a wipe). . german logs, don't blame me...
other than that, a warrior's weakness is definitely lacking AOE. I tanked together with a druid, a paladin and a monk, and only with the druid I have a small chance to get a part of a mob pack. both Paladin and Monk do so massive AOE thread, I most likely end up taunting "the big one" and singletarget tank it, and I don't think, that DK tanks are worse.
strength are incredible survivability against both magic and physical damage. my healers say that from our 4 tanks, I'm by far the easiest to heal. and I'm not the one with the best equip. so either I'm incredibly more skilled (which I doubt^^), or it is the class.
mobility is still unreached. 2 charges in a row, leap in between. + goblin jump. the only other tanking class that can become a goblin, is DK. no goblin paladins, no goblin monks, no goblin druids. so if you roll a goblin, that is even more of an advantage.
also good amount of CDs, even though I think this is quite balanced between the tank classes by now.
Mocking banner. Yes, I claim this as an advantage, even a quite limited one. even though our aoe is weak as mentioned below, this makes or breaks our kills at elegon for example. I just have guaranteed threat from whatever amount of adds are remaining between the two P1->P3 transitions for 30 seconds. every other tank needs to sacrifice survivability for the AOE threat here, but a warrior doesn't. It's not good for normal trash on the other hand, because it has a too long CD for that.
Last edited by xebtria; 2012-11-19 at 01:01 PM.
---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 01:05 PM ----------
My main is a warrior tank and I wouldn't trade them for any other tanking class. Amazing mobility and buttons for just about everything - fears, spell and physical damage, etc - that a mob can throw at you. And, IMO, the most physical and visceral tanking in the game. Warrior feels like they are just beating the sh** out of stuff, with all the bleeds and cleaves and such.
Last edited by Mirishka; 2012-11-19 at 01:17 PM.
Not saying warriors cannot deal with a lot of targets but is a lot more complicated and more limited when it comes to dealing with aoe tanking, where as a paladins are the total opposite; simple and extremely effective. So I would definitely agree that the warrior weakness, currently, is aoe threat.
I am not sure about others but our AoE is pretty lacking (threat wise) once they nerfed Deep Wounds and revenge cleave. I am hit and expertise capped and I cannot compete with most classes (Edit: Tanks).
Does anyone else have this kind of issue? (even though its a minor one).
Shockwave is the only real good AOE damage, if you get the positioning right - and it does low damage with low vengeance, just as any ability, and you can't generate vengeance during the stun - not exactly helpful when you need snap threat at the pull. Bloodbath may amplify that - once a minute. but this is also a dot, which builds up the first 12 seconds. no snap threat either. avatar on the other hand is just a flat 20% damage increase. once every three minutes, so I rather could use mocking banner for aoe instead...
the only chance I have is: keep some rage from the pull before, recklessness+banner+Bloodbath (if you have it), leap in, thunderclap, shockwave. hope that you don't loose the aggro. fillers are only revenge + cleave maybe, both of which are three targets only. I honestly don't bother with shield slam and/or devastate in aoe situations, except everything else is on cd.
during that, a monk for example just does keg smash and spin until he pukes. before the shockwave, I may have the threat, after the stun is over, a monk, a paladin or a DK do so much damage compared to me, that they just draw the aggro without taunting. when the second tank is a druid, I may have a chance to have something left to tank...
I think a good solution would be to increase the actual damage of cleave. for example. it should hit for 10k damage per target on three targets (=30k damage). if it hits less than three targets, it would still hit for 10k per target only (so it doesn't get too OP for single target, obviously)., but if it hits more, the damage gets split between targets. so it hits for 30k total, 10 targets = 3k per target. 5 targets = 5k per target. maybe even with a 25% chance if it hits more than 2 targets to regain 15 rage. something like that. numbers are made up. you get the idea. AoE would be a bit better, but not OP.
or they could just make dragon roar generate threat. should resolve the instant snap threat. and when we HAVE threat for a while (and thus, having vengeance), DW and TC are generating enough threat to maintain it. but since we don't get into that position in the first place, we are lacking a bit....
I won't say AoE is our weakness. Yes, monks outperform other tanks for AoE, but a warrior specced for it don't fall behind the other 3 tanks (beside monks), as Wind Lord shows. No one should have problems or care about trash.
The weakness have a name, and is Lei Shi. No melee damage, no DPS (no enrage, no HR glyph, no revenge refresh, no revenge glyph), rage suffers a lot (no crit blocks, no revenge refresh again), and though Shield Barrier is there to make you feel not useless, the feeling is so, so different from a heavy melee boss that there is no doubt where a warrior shines and where a warrior lacks.
Last edited by Espada; 2012-11-19 at 08:00 PM.
As a warrior gearing for Herald, i find AoE frustrating when adds are spread out
I take a little bit less damage than my DK counterpart. The damage I take isn't bursty and easier to heal through compared to that of a death knight (unless it's a big damage boss ability).
The only problem I have is our AOE damage which is low compared to DKs and monks. Paladins and warriors, that I've seen, have the two lowest tanking AoE. Druids are in between. What I think will fix this issue is make thunderclap do more damage without the glyph or make our deep wounds do more damage for each target it is on.
Warrior cannot compete with DK, Monk or Prot Paladin in AoE threat. But threat is not dps. Not saying that the warrior AoE threat is bad. No, its fine and you will have no troubles with aggro at all if you are solo-tanking. But Blood DK and Prot Paladin have an easier time. In multi-tank scenarios this results in the prot warrior loosing the AoE threat race against the other classes if the competing tank knows how to play. This results in the one tank getting even more Vengeance and a faster lead. No big deal. Just make sure you Taunt 1-3 adds just to keep your Vengeance from falling off completly.
Nevertheless. Warrior AoE dps is insane. (Blood Thirst + Dragon Breath > Leap > Thunderclap >Revenge > Shield Slam (Cleave if possible))
Regarding the Windlord: I tanked him in LFR yesterday. We cc'ed 3 adds. I did 257k dps on the fight. Of couse not cc'ing anything would have resulted in even higher DPS at the cost of even more healer mana.
DPS-wise the warrior can compete with any tank at any time. They are all pretty similar and have their merits on certain scenarios.
Warrior AoE threat is lacking a bit behind the other tanks but is still able to compete.
Raidbot tank comparsion: http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/#7o0000
@Vinn you may be right on Monk AoE dps...
I justed checked: http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Wind_...efault/#7o0000