1. #1
    Pit Lord Poppincaps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Post-Apocalyptic America
    Posts
    2,430

    Should pets be immune to parries?

    So, I was doing Blade Lord Ta'yak the other night and I popped BW and hit Kill Command and he parried it, then I hit lynx rush and he parried two of the lynx rush ticks. Now, I understand that I got pretty unlucky, but whenever I have to switch targets or my pet ends up in front of the boss due to Lynx Rush, I occasionally get parried. Now, I understand why melee classes get parried, but I have no control over whether my pet is in front of the boss or not. It's completely stupid that I can get parried. Perhaps they should make lynx rush and kill command "ranged" abilities just to prevent us from getting parried. I don't really see how this could have any real affect on PvP and it's really just a bullshit occurrence in PvE.

  2. #2
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Brawl Pub
    Posts
    4,154
    You can prevent it, by delaying your KC til the pet reaches the back of the boss. If a warrior rushed to the front of the boss after the boss moves, and hits execute and gets parried, do you blame the boss or do you blame the warrior?

  3. #3
    Except Kill Command makes your pet rush to the boss, so it's used to manoeuver your pet to the boss location so you don't have to delay the ability. It used to only be usable if your pet was in melee range at all!

    So that doesn't really prevent the parry. Plus, sometimes it can be near-impossible to see if your pet is in front of the boss or behind the boss, since you're far away from that location. If you're a warrior, you can easily see your own location and the boss's location. Plus, it's the whole point of being melee - that you can get parried when attacking the boss from the front, which prevents all the melee from just stacking on top of the tanks for super easy AoE healing.

  4. #4
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Colchester, land of the squaddies, UK
    Posts
    5,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Shootandkill View Post
    I don't really see how this could have any real affect on PvP
    Hunter vs Warrior:
    "Die by the Sword? LOLNOPE"
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 0/6/6 | TPR: 0.5/3.5/4
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Glyphmaster Gunhaver

  5. #5
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Brawl Pub
    Posts
    4,154
    Quote Originally Posted by Xiphias View Post
    Except Kill Command makes your pet rush to the boss, so it's used to manoeuver your pet to the boss location so you don't have to delay the ability. It used to only be usable if your pet was in melee range at all!

    So that doesn't really prevent the parry. Plus, sometimes it can be near-impossible to see if your pet is in front of the boss or behind the boss, since you're far away from that location. If you're a warrior, you can easily see your own location and the boss's location. Plus, it's the whole point of being melee - that you can get parried when attacking the boss from the front, which prevents all the melee from just stacking on top of the tanks for super easy AoE healing.
    So does charge. Or heroic leap, or sprint, all melee have abilities which get you somewhere. If you want, you can just use Dash during movement to get your pet where it needs to go - it'll automatically go tot he back of the boss if possible. If you choose to KC while the boss is facing you (and your pet) then that's the gamble, same as if a warrior charges to the boss and immediately hits MS because he can.

    As for the seeing thing, obviously its a bit of a problem, but if you've ever played melee you know you zoom out to practically the range of a ranged player anyways cause you can't have the boss's arse take up your whole screen. Not being centered on the pet, I understand it's different, but I've never had difficulty seeing where my pet is in relationship to which way the boss is facing.

    One thing I don't understand: I thought KC was changed to charge to the back of the boss - is this not true? I play SV on most fights, so I wouldn't be able to say definitively. If it does (or rather, is supposed to) and you're still getting parried, then that's a bug which needs to be fixed.

  6. #6
    It's supposed to charge at the back of the boss, but sometimes the attack part of it happens while the charge is in progress, thus the parry.

  7. #7
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Brawl Pub
    Posts
    4,154
    Well then that sucks royal balls and thus I retract what I said about delaying it, if the ability is supposed to put your pet behind the boss.

  8. #8
    It's kinda the same with Blink Strike, it's supposed to teleport the pet to the back of the boss and attack, and yet still somehow the boss manages to parry the strike :S

    Brushing before eating breakfast seems about as silly as wiping before you poop.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    You can prevent it, by delaying your KC til the pet reaches the back of the boss. If a warrior rushed to the front of the boss after the boss moves, and hits execute and gets parried, do you blame the boss or do you blame the warrior?
    Bosses often turn to cast various abilities, some on a timer, some just random throughout the fight.

    Delaying KC regularly just to avoid the chance of being parried by a turning boss isn't something we should have to do.

    The whole point of Blizzard buffing KC to have a 25yd range is to make it less clunky, but unless the pet is directly behind the boss (read: in melee) it's subject to parry. So retarded
    Last edited by Dela2k10; 2012-11-18 at 03:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhazrun View Post
    You know how people talk about how you could just make a piece of rock with a billion health and damage and call it "hard"?

    Ra-den is what you get when a designer thinks that's actually a really good idea.
    i7-3930k @ 4.6 | Sabertooth X79 | 32GB DDR3-1600 | GTX-680 Jetstream SLI | TX950W

  10. #10
    Every lynx rush attack positions at a random spot around the boss, so the pet actually has a 50% chance of being in a parryable position for each attack during the 4 second duration of lynx rush. It's a crappy design in my opinion, but it's how they designed it. Making sure you time your KC right before Lynx Rush instead of during should cut down on the problem, but it doesn't look like it's going away.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    3,708
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Hunter vs Warrior:
    "Die by the Sword? LOLNOPE"
    Hunter shots aren't parry-able anyway, I don't see your point, and Hunter pets always attack from the behind normally

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Colchester, land of the squaddies, UK
    Posts
    5,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Hunter shots aren't parry-able anyway, I don't see your point, and Hunter pets always attack from the behind normally
    OP wants Kill Command and Lynx Rush to be unparryable, and they're not Hunter shots. He then said that there'd be no problems with it in PvP, and I came up with a scenario in which it does become a problem.

    Players can turn to face pets in PvP.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 0/6/6 | TPR: 0.5/3.5/4
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Glyphmaster Gunhaver

  13. #13
    It would make sense to not let lnyxrush be parried, thats just anoying and random, and not at all influenceable by the hunter.
    (well, goin for 15% expertise, haha, for one ability every 1.5min that sometimes doesn't hit -.-)

  14. #14
    Pit Lord Poppincaps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Post-Apocalyptic America
    Posts
    2,430
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    OP wants Kill Command and Lynx Rush to be unparryable, and they're not Hunter shots. He then said that there'd be no problems with it in PvP, and I came up with a scenario in which it does become a problem.

    Players can turn to face pets in PvP.
    Fine, it would have some use, but I still think it would have a very small impact on PvP.

  15. #15
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Colchester, land of the squaddies, UK
    Posts
    5,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Shootandkill View Post
    Fine, it would have some use, but I still think it would have a very small impact on PvP.
    If Lynx Rush and Kill Command aren't used in opening burst, it would help with collecting clutch kills on Warriors.

    Instead of making this a Warrior only problem, just make them spells?
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 0/6/6 | TPR: 0.5/3.5/4
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Glyphmaster Gunhaver

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Players can turn to face pets in PvP.
    This is true, but I am pretty sure pets will automatically move to be behind their target unless their target is targeting they themselves. That is, if the Warrior wants to parry the pet, they have to target the pet and face the pet, which stops the pet from running behind the Warrior (this is why pets don't just run around in circles when tanking random mobs, since if they have aggro they are being targeted by the enemy and thus don't try to run behind them)

    Hunter abilities are supposed to be un-parryable as a general rule, now that they only used ranged weapons. The only exception to this is Kill Command. The pet's other abilities, well... of course those can be parried, too, but those are specifically the pet's abilities, and not one the Hunter ever has to actively press. Those ones get parried from time to time, and it's not a huge deal, since the pet's Basic Attack and autoattack are a pretty small portion of a Hunter's damage. However, Kill Command is the primary "shot" of Beast Mastery Hunters... it's like giving Explosive Shot or Chimaera Shot a very small chance to be parried randomly! Kill Command used to be clunkier, too, as stated, and the range increase was designed to make it less clunky - it's supposed to act like a special Hunter shot.

    Personally, I wouldn't mind if they changed it to be a "real" Hunter ability, instead of being tied to the pet so closely. Right now, it is actually impossible to determine if Kill Command is actually in range or not, without using the ability and seeing if you get "Your Pet is not in range" message - since the Pet doesn't actually have the Kill Command ability, you can't check its range with LUA (like you can with Growl, which is melee range, or a ranged special ability that some pets have), and it's not based on your range at all (so you could be in melee range, and your pet would be out of range, making you unable to use the ability) so you can't just check your own distance to the boss.

    I think it would be better if using Kill Command put a buff on your pet that made its next autoattack do the Kill Command damage as a bonus and give them a movement speed boost just like Dash, without costing the pet any Focus. This way, it still gets to the boss quickly, but since it can be smart and delay its autoattack until it's actually behind the boss, you'll get the damage boost on it. Just make the buff last for 4 seconds or something, and it should be golden.

    Since it's still not an attack, you could still use it under Deterrence, and since it still applies a buff to your pet, you can use it when your pet is off somewhere else. Even make it not require line of sight (your pet can still "hear" you, whereas the healing from Mend Pet requires line of sight since you have to see the wounds you want to heal, or something whimsical like that).

    Easy fix.

    Then you could even have a tier set bonus: "Your Kill Command has a 5% chance to not be consumed when your pet attacks, (other spec boosts)" or somesuch. This would be an interesting way to give you a chance at a completely free Kill Command, not even requiring any Focus or a GCD or anything.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •