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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    nerf F-bomb
    Hence, nerf Nether Tempest and Living Bomb as well.
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  2. #22
    Heres the balance problems I saw:

    Demo Warlocks: Insane OP burst every 2 minutes. However they do absolutely nothing in between their bursts. Demon soul is the problem. However if demon soul is nerfed, the spec has nothing. I believe the aura is heavily nerfed already on PTR.

    Frost mages: frost bomb + deep freeze = rediculous burst on a 30 second CD. Frost bomb is the main culprit, it needs a nerf, probably to mastery to not affect PVE. Mages seem to be able to keep pressure up during the whole game, which is why they work so well with demo's 2 minute bursts.

    Warrior: pumps out ridiculous sustained damage and impossible to kite.

    Spriest : offhealing is hilarious. Only reason people think Cdew is a "god" in stream chat is because of the insane support he was getting from talbadar. He would have died so fast without those heals.

    Resto shamans: never seem to die. Either something gets globaled by above classes or 20 minute game.
    Last edited by scmpoe; 2012-11-18 at 10:17 PM.

  3. #23
    Mages need mastery nerf, but that mage did not hit Cdew alone for a 200k frost bomb, that doesnt happen and cdews comms where done, could not communicate for the mage to get peeled off.

    The problem I see with nerfing mages correctly, is how do you do it? My opinion nerf mastery compensate elsewhere.

    But I think its laughable to call mages the big outlier of the tournament, the warrior was out damaging mages, and the Demos were gods at one shotting or getting close to it. Mages are strong, but honestly a lot of their burst is stoppable, healer gets deeped? Cs the mage, laugh as the mage does 0 damage in the deep, fear the mage, so many stops, thats why Venruki didnt get any massive damage going because Another was putting a lot of peels so was the warrior.

    Frost mages burst is as good or even a lil worse as other classes, they just werent represented because again, qualifier was in Cata, Enhance/feral/warrior/demo/mages all high damage, they all need toned.


    Wish there was more class diversity, but the qualifiers were in Cata, where most the classes were probably even more rediculous than now, and the rogue teams got kicked out early. lol

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by scmpoe View Post
    Warrior: pumps out ridiculous sustained damage and impossible to kite.
    ridiculous sustained damage? 10k overpowers and 15k mortal strikes are ridiculous?

    Their burst is out of hand, i agree, but their sustained damage is one of the worst out of all melee classes.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    ridiculous sustained damage? 10k overpowers and 15k mortal strikes are ridiculous?

    Their burst is out of hand, i agree, but their sustained damage is one of the worst out of all melee classes.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    ridiculous sustained damage? 10k overpowers and 15k mortal strikes are ridiculous?

    Their burst is out of hand, i agree, but their sustained damage is one of the worst out of all melee classes.
    If you think warrior sustained is bad, go watch veev's stream. He puts out crazy pressure from start to finish of every game. I dont know where u get 10 and 15ks from, he pumps out 30-40ks regularly.

    In China, the warrior had the highest damage by a mile in most of his games.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by scmpoe View Post
    If you think warrior sustained is bad, go watch veev's stream. He puts out crazy pressure from start to finish of every game. I dont know where u get 10 and 15ks from, he pumps out 30-40ks regularly.

    In China, the warrior had the highest damage by a mile in most of his games.
    30-40k crits on a CS'd targets - yeah, pretty easy, with a 15% crit rate, and a CS uptime of 30 to 50%.
    But if we're talking crits - look at a feral, whose rake crits for up to 35k and rip crits for up to 30k as well. Frost death knights? Just 45k frost strikes and 65k obliterates on a holydin, with ~40% critrate.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    30-40k crits on a CS'd targets - yeah, pretty easy, with a 15% crit rate, and a CS uptime of 30 to 50%.
    But if we're talking crits - look at a feral, whose rake crits for up to 35k and rip crits for up to 30k as well. Frost death knights? Just 45k frost strikes and 65k obliterates on a holydin, with ~40% critrate.
    I think we had this discussion before but discussing individual strike damage is irrelevant when pretty much all of warrior abilities hit hard and their melee uptime is close to 100%

    Result is that Warrior are usual topping the arena DPS charts, and without even looking at the meter anyone can just feel the constant pressure of a warrior DPSing your mate, that was quite noticeable at BWC

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by crazymack View Post
    I know mages have like nothing in their arsenal that can stop me from walk over to them and pounding their face into the ground.
    Wait... that's not what this thread is about?
    What clase you play? GM?. lol..
    Mages have always had the upper hand at the start of seasons, lets see what happens after the "balances".
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Gangresnake View Post
    Result is that Warrior are usual topping the arena DPS charts, and without even looking at the meter anyone can just feel the constant pressure of a warrior DPSing your mate, that was quite noticeable at BWC
    One of these days I think people will see how much damage dks are doing. Dks scare me way more than warriors. Ive played against multiple tsgs this seasons, some focusing war some focusing dk, and the dk has never been outdamaged by a war, they generally double the war if not more. Dks sustained is nearly warriors with cds. They are "squishy" even though in blood presence they can be easily over 400k health with high armor and passive DR.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    One of these days I think people will see how much damage dks are doing. Dks scare me way more than warriors. Ive played against multiple tsgs this seasons, some focusing war some focusing dk, and the dk has never been outdamaged by a war, they generally double the war if not more. Dks sustained is nearly warriors with cds. They are "squishy" even though in blood presence they can be easily over 400k health with high armor and passive DR.
    Couple of facts:
    1. It's easier to heal through sustained dmg.
    2. Warriors have better mobility/defences/control.
    3. Warrior can drop you out of nowhere.

    I don't argue that DK's are strong (as they should be), but so are rets, moonkins etc., just there's a bigger fish in the pond that should be toned down to acceptable lvls.

    OT: My bro is studing in Shanghai (spelling?) atm and went to b-net event, even thought he's a long time WoW and arena player he watched SC2 only and later his mates who went to watch WoW told him they never witnessed such a crap. Seriously we saw at least some hotfixes for warriors and hunters, but mages take months to get some light nerfs (if 5.1 goes live as it is).

    I don't believe in WoW as a esport, i never got any amusement from pvp tourneys held in WoW and for me this tournament means absolutly nothing, but when globaly multiple specs are facing godtier with 1/10 chance to win on same skill lvl and Blizz keeps feeding community with PTR notes instead of applying cluth weekly hotfixes it makes me wonder why i'm still subscribed to this shit.

  12. #32
    DK's are this seasons glass cannons. If they connect, they hurt. But they are so CC'able and kitable that it's not even funny. Not to mention their utility / survivability is one of the worst ones at the time being. And hey, they are nerfing death strike healing in pvp! : ) Anyways, back to topic, mages.. the difference between average and good mage is so damn big.... and blizz has done most balancing around the mid rated people (1500-2000?) since start of cata. Thus it's unlikely to see mages nerfed too much since they aren't really _that_ overpowered in hands of an average player. But yeah, it's no fun shouting in vent everytime you see a frostbomb on someone to have ppl prepared for the worst.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    30-40k crits on a CS'd targets - yeah, pretty easy, with a 15% crit rate, and a CS uptime of 30 to 50%.
    But if we're talking crits - look at a feral, whose rake crits for up to 35k and rip crits for up to 30k as well. Frost death knights? Just 45k frost strikes and 65k obliterates on a holydin, with ~40% critrate.
    I doubt the 65k oblit on a holydin, if he got resi too, and oblit on plate with pvp gear instead of a ns just means its an L2P issue. You do it on cloth/leather first. The oblit is not spamable too, with 2 runes and that extremely slow rune regeneration rate. On the other side whats hard to manage if you use those infinite mana pools, rage and energy?

    such a stupid burst talk. Several specs can deal good bursts, sustained dmg or even both, but what it is worth without an prober arsenal of def cds against anything and control. Just the warri can shutdown my frost dk with his myriad of abilities and kills stuff in a short stun/disarm, the little def mechanics do not really help here as they get wasted pretty quickly. He really is the new cata 4.3 rogue and does not even need stealth.There is no way to beat a geared warrior who knows his stuff cause of moblity and utility, lets see if the nerfs are enough.
    To beat a warri as dk in arenas if all teamates are dead, i have to play my class MUCH better. And looking around its the same deal for many other classes and their specs too.

    Mages in comparission are a strong pvp class, but far from overpowered like a warr. Get real. Look at the arena representation, it shows the truth and fmages are in the middle of it. who is afraid of mages...cuz you can't dodge a frostbomb?
    Last edited by Tyrannica; 2012-11-19 at 09:19 AM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Mages in comparission are a strong pvp class, but far from overpowered like a warr. Get real. Look at the arena representation, it shows the truth and fmages are in the middle of it. who is afraid of mages...cuz you can't dodge a frostbomb?
    That doesn't show anything becouse war is easier to play (especially now), they're hands down best melee and generally brute force their wins in many cleave variants. But if you'll play against competent mage/sp/rdruid or mage/lock/sham you'll loose way worse then against a competent warrior teams, becouse the amount of control combined with such insane burst dmg leaves no chances to mid-tier specs who can ocasionally burst someone in warrior cleaves. Besides thing is that warriors are recieving pretty harsh nerfs including removed freedom component from avatar, avatar not stacking with enrage and some others whille there's literally no serious nerfs for mages.

    And when warriors will recieve their nerfs we will arrive in the world of wizard cleaves that won't help in the least monks, enchs, dks. Add there PvP power not affecting hybrid heals anymore and retris are fucked too whille SPs will still have CC to fall back on. Atm 5.1 notes really don't make sence to me and i don't expect some serious ladder shifts. And since MMR and team raitings wont be wiped (most likely), everyone who got freeride to ranks will camp them yet again.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyaldee View Post
    That doesn't show anything becouse war is easier to play (especially now), they're hands down best melee and generally brute force their wins in many cleave variants. But if you'll play against competent mage/sp/rdruid or mage/lock/sham you'll loose way worse then against a competent warrior teams, becouse the amount of control combined with such insane burst dmg leaves no chances to mid-tier specs who can ocasionally burst someone in warrior cleaves. Besides thing is that warriors are recieving pretty harsh nerfs including removed freedom component from avatar, avatar not stacking with enrage and some others whille there's literally no serious nerfs for mages.
    I think you missed the part where warriors have a lot of control too. disarm, fear, stuns, silence, optional reflect? great survival and insane burst that can be hard to avoid. The mage on the other side is easy to tunnel, dispel and interrupt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyaldee View Post
    And when warriors will recieve their nerfs we will arrive in the world of wizard cleaves that won't help in the least monks, enchs, dks.
    Trust me, it WILL help dks gaining more viable setups(out of the 2). They are melee wizard slayers after all? Scissor is not afraid of some paper cleaves, again some use for the anti magic zone as lichborne is bugged. Besides who plays monks in arenas? I see them as healers in rbgs though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyaldee View Post
    Add there PvP power not affecting hybrid heals anymore and retris are fucked too whille SPs will still have CC to fall back on.
    Godforbid, we make all the SP rerollers unhappy. i think the Laser Turkey should selfheal more, though.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by crazymack View Post
    I know mages have like nothing in their arsenal that can stop me from walk over to them and pounding their face into the ground.
    Wait... that's not what this thread is about?
    It actually made me laugh out loud at work. Thank you kind sir, I like stuff that makes Mondays a tad more bearable.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    I doubt the 65k oblit on a holydin, if he got resi too, and oblit on plate with pvp gear instead of a ns just means its an L2P issue. You do it on cloth/leather first. The oblit is not spamable too, with 2 runes and that extremely slow rune regeneration rate. On the other side whats hard to manage if you use those infinite mana pools, rage and energy?

    such a stupid burst talk. Several specs can deal good bursts, sustained dmg or even both, but what it is worth without an prober arsenal of def cds against anything and control. Just the warri can shutdown my frost dk with his myriad of abilities and kills stuff in a short stun/disarm, the little def mechanics do not really help here as they get wasted pretty quickly. He really is the new cata 4.3 rogue and does not even need stealth.There is no way to beat a geared warrior who knows his stuff cause of moblity and utility, lets see if the nerfs are enough.
    To beat a warri as dk in arenas if all teamates are dead, i have to play my class MUCH better. And looking around its the same deal for many other classes and their specs too.
    I was merely proving a point that warriors have got bad sustained damage. Which they do. I've got both DK and Warrior at 2k ratings, and yeah, i do play with a holy paladin in my team, and those 65k obliterates are quite common, considering 42% pvp power, and as i said, i do agree warriors are broken at the moment. But with the nerf to gag order and POSSIBLY shockwave, i believe they won't be as strong as they are right now. Not even remotely.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by bionics View Post
    Frost Bomb needs to be hit by the nerf bat quick. That much damage on an instant cast is just garbage design. (For PVP anyways.)
    Did you just really say that frostbomb is an instant cast? Because it is not. Frostbomb has an 1.5 second cast and thus can be grounded/dodged/reflected. Also it has an actual cool down and thus can't be spammed and your healer can dispell it without any kind of backdraft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    ridiculous sustained damage? 10k overpowers and 15k mortal strikes are ridiculous?

    Their burst is out of hand, i agree, but their sustained damage is one of the worst out of all melee classes.
    What the hell are you hitting? Solid rock? I'm at 62% resilence, resto shaman. And I get hit for thrice that ammount by warrior auto attacks.
    Last edited by Deleth; 2012-11-19 at 01:23 PM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by bionics View Post
    I could live with that.

    The problem, as always, is that these abilities are fine for PVE and imba for PVP. But Blizzard has already made it clear that PVE will always come first, which is how they intend it to be.
    Unless you play a hunter. Then you get shit on in pve AND pvp at the same time because scrubs don't know how to use defensive CDs when the kitty turns big and red and mean.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Did you just really say that frostbomb is an instant cast? Because it is not. Frostbomb has an 1.5 second cast and thus can be grounded/dodged/reflected. Also it has an actual cool down and thus can't be spammed and your healer can dispell it without any kind of backdraft.


    What the hell are you hitting? Solid rock? I'm at 62% resilence, resto shaman. And I get hit for thrice that ammount by warrior auto attacks.
    20-27k damage warrior ( with BS)
    ~50%/ armor / ~20% resilence minus pvp power, which equals ~9.2k average hit without any cooldowns.

    Yeah, i said hits, yeah, i said without cooldowns and CS.

    With CS, it would be 13.8k hit/28k crit. so mach
    Last edited by Strah; 2012-11-19 at 01:30 PM.

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