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  1. #21

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johncockhand69 View Post

    You can talk strat about how to use it all you want, but it doesn't change the fact it is at pathetic dps increase. The level of attentiveness required to ensure it is a dps increase is massive for the miniscule amount of dps you actually attain. It is most certainly not something you tell a new player to start trying to do regardless.
    Sure, if you dont know how to use it, you shouldnt be using it. I, however, DO know how to use it and am comfortable with it. Even if i only get the opportunity to throw out one solid FoF in a fight, thats still a gain. Doesnt matter how small it is, a boost is a boost.

    The OP was asking how to use FoF and hes been given some fairly thorough answers. Its up to him to decide if he wants to take the risks, not you.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    If you're a new WW, ignore FoF. Once you have the rest of your rotation down without errors, then you should start working on how to fit FoF into it.

    But worrying about that last 2% of effectiveness when you haven't nailed down the core rotation isn't a good plan. Doing 98% of theoretical maximum is fine, and a lot better than doing 60% of theoretical maximum because you're using FoF wrong and are making other errors.
    This. Although I would argue you shouldnt worry about that last 2% at all until they fix the bugged FoF. Hopefully they will buff it too down the road.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 08:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Sure, if you dont know how to use it, you shouldnt be using it. I, however, DO know how to use it and am comfortable with it. Even if i only get the opportunity to throw out one solid FoF in a fight, thats still a gain. Doesnt matter how small it is, a boost is a boost.

    The OP was asking how to use FoF and hes been given some fairly thorough answers. Its up to him to decide if he wants to take the risks, not you.
    Its bugged dude. Even if you know how to use it, it is still not advisable.

  4. #24
    The only time that I ever actually use FoF in a fight is where I can either cleave it with 2+ mobs (hope for all crit ticks) and when I'm low on energy but have 3 chi from a previous Jab. It's better to use FoF since it's channeled than use a BoK then go to 0 DPS until you have enough energy again to spam Jab again (If you find yourself being slightly energy starved for a few seconds)

    Has anyone seen anything about a future fix for the FoF bug?
    Last edited by Chitoh; 2012-11-22 at 09:59 AM.

  5. #25
    Field Marshal Algot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chitoh View Post
    Has anyone seen anything about a future fix for the FoF bug?
    No news. Have to wait and see for 5.2.

  6. #26
    The Patient Photek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chitoh View Post
    Has anyone seen anything about a future fix for the FoF bug?
    Seems fixed on the PTR, just posted this on another thread: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19183893


    Quote Originally Posted by Chitoh View Post
    The only time that I ever actually use FoF in a fight is where I can either cleave it with 2+ mobs (hope for all crit ticks) and when I'm low on energy but have 3 chi from a previous Jab. It's better to use FoF since it's channeled than use a BoK then go to 0 DPS until you have enough energy again to spam Jab again (If you find yourself being slightly energy starved for a few seconds)

    Has anyone seen anything about a future fix for the FoF bug?
    I was under the impression that is a bad idea? FoF damage is always the same, cleaving just spread the fixed damage.
    Last edited by Photek; 2012-11-22 at 04:58 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Photek View Post
    Seems fixed on the PTR, just posted this on another thread: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19183893


    I was under the impression that is a bad idea? FoF damage is always the same, cleaving just spread the fixed damage.
    Seems I was looking at something else whenever I used FoF as a cleave. Least it's fixed on the PTR.

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chitoh View Post
    The only time that I ever actually use FoF in a fight is where I can either cleave it with 2+ mobs (hope for all crit ticks) and when I'm low on energy but have 3 chi from a previous Jab. It's better to use FoF since it's channeled than use a BoK then go to 0 DPS until you have enough energy again to spam Jab again (If you find yourself being slightly energy starved for a few seconds)

    Has anyone seen anything about a future fix for the FoF bug?
    Doesnt matter if you use FoF on one target, two targets or six targets - it'll still do the same damage because it meteors.

    Say your FoF ticks for 50k on a single target. If used against two targets, it'll tick on each for 25k. If used on four targets, it'll tick for 12.5k each.
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  9. #29
    FoF is a tool to regen energy. It's not a damage loss, nor is it a major damage increase on its own. Using it as a tool to regen energy during uneventful periods is something that makes the Windwalker rotation so interesting, considering how much setup is required to get that energy. Executing a perfect rotation and getting those FoFs off is one of the most satisfying things I've experienced while playing DPS in WoW.

    Now, if only they would make FoF a single target ability so I can use it on fights with useless melee targets ala-Spine.
    Last edited by Ryanlol; 2012-11-23 at 04:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    when I go to the carnival and drop 5 bucks on a -game- I don't bitch when I don't win the stuffed bear

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryanlol View Post
    FoF is a tool to regen energy. It's not a damage loss, nor is it a major damage increase on its own. Using it as a tool to regen energy during uneventful periods is something that makes the Windwalker rotation so interesting, considering how much setup is required to get that energy. Executing a perfect rotation and getting those FoFs off is one of the most satisfying things I've experienced while playing DPS in WoW.

    Now, if only they would make FoF a single target ability so I can use it on fights with useless melee targets ala-Spine.
    Just because you are unable to cast anything else does not mean that FoF impacts energy regeneration. Whether you BoK and sit there for 4 seconds auto-attacking or use FoF, you'll still get the same amount of energy. In fact, it's worse because it prohibits you from using that energy until it's over. The only way it is a DPS increase is via being more damage than BoK and AAs for 4 seconds. Normally it is, except that when it goes from 5 ticks down to 4 with haste, it becomes a total and complete DPS loss.

  11. #31
    Of course FoF will never net you more energy over a prolonged fight. The point I was making was that it maintains or overcomes BoK damage (even at 4 ticks) and smooths out your rotation by letting you generate a lot of energy safely unlike BoK spam which incentivizes you to stay at or below 40 energy at all times. Considering that, I view it as an energy generation tool even though it technically isn't.

    As it is now, using FoF will absolutely result in a damage increase on any fight that allows it, and it will become even more of a damage increase in 5.1 when they fix the tick bug.
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    when I go to the carnival and drop 5 bucks on a -game- I don't bitch when I don't win the stuffed bear

  12. #32
    FoF is garbage and never worth using if you are over 6kish haste.

    Even if it weren't bugged, you still need the stars to align in order to use it. If you cancel it mid-channel for any reason it goes from a slight 1%-2% dps increase to a dps loss. And again, this is assuming it wasn't bugged.

    Given the amount of movement in most fights, I find it almost completely useless. I've gotten a couple top 10 parses on WoL without using it at all in the last cpl weeks, so fuck it. It needs a redesign in addition to the bugfix imho.

  13. #33
    Mechagnome Jaja's Avatar
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    It has it's moments.

    3 Chi, just used RSK, low energy.

    Using it is a DPS increase, albeit only very very slightly. Using it at the wrong time even by a split second is very much a DPS loss.

    And taking into account that when you hit ~6.1k haste it is bugged and actually cancels 1 tick of the damage (or is this fixed?).

    I do use FoF, just not that regularly and I still do quite well for myself.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaja View Post
    It has it's moments.

    3 Chi, just used RSK, low energy.

    Using it is a DPS increase, albeit only very very slightly. Using it at the wrong time even by a split second is very much a DPS loss.

    And taking into account that when you hit ~6.1k haste it is bugged and actually cancels 1 tick of the damage (or is this fixed?).

    I do use FoF, just not that regularly and I still do quite well for myself.
    Bolded for emphasis, it's actually not difficult to use and spices up the rotation a bit for a minor DPS increase. The bug just makes it a huge hassle if you have any kind of haste proc or a lot of natural haste, although reports say it's fixed on the PTR (definitely not fixed on live, you can test it yourself in like 10 seconds).

  15. #35
    Field Marshal Algot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Bolded for emphasis, it's actually not difficult to use and spices up the rotation a bit for a minor DPS increase. The bug just makes it a huge hassle if you have any kind of haste proc or a lot of natural haste, although reports say it's fixed on the PTR (definitely not fixed on live, you can test it yourself in like 10 seconds).
    3 Chi, just used RSK, low energy.
    Agree with all of this. Just don't use it during heroism/bloodlust. Minor dps increase is still a dps increase. Anything counts, right?

  16. #36
    I think the "Bugged" state of FoF aka not getting five ticks under large haste buffs such as bloodlust, is actually a bug with World of Logs and recording programs, based on my own testing and the Elitist Jerks thread. When i am under Bloodlust it does indeed shorten the channel of Fists of Fury and doesn't increase the rate of ticks, but I have noticed that I still get the fifth tick after my channel bar has ended, as long as I don't instantly use another ability. Its almost like the UI is just displaying improperly, but maybe outside logs are also not counting that hit outside of when you are technically casting it. My ingame combat log also confirms five hits. Keep in mind I am stacking haste and using various attack speed buffs to try this.

    It is possible that it is not working the same for everyone, or that is is not working the same way in different game areas (These tests were on a dummy, though I have noted it in arena when there is less going on than a raid) But mainly I would just say before working your whole rotation choices off just what you read on a simcraft of log, go actually try it out, its not that hard to test.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by squid View Post
    I think the "Bugged" state of FoF aka not getting five ticks under large haste buffs such as bloodlust, is actually a bug with World of Logs and recording programs, based on my own testing and the Elitist Jerks thread. When i am under Bloodlust it does indeed shorten the channel of Fists of Fury and doesn't increase the rate of ticks, but I have noticed that I still get the fifth tick after my channel bar has ended, as long as I don't instantly use another ability. Its almost like the UI is just displaying improperly, but maybe outside logs are also not counting that hit outside of when you are technically casting it. My ingame combat log also confirms five hits. Keep in mind I am stacking haste and using various attack speed buffs to try this.

    It is possible that it is not working the same for everyone, or that is is not working the same way in different game areas (These tests were on a dummy, though I have noted it in arena when there is less going on than a raid) But mainly I would just say before working your whole rotation choices off just what you read on a simcraft of log, go actually try it out, its not that hard to test.
    If it doesn't tick 5 times on a target dummy, and you go into a raid and use Recount, Skada, or World of Logs and a 5th tick does not show up in the combat log, I think you're just under wishful thinking that a 5th tick is miraculously appearing. There's no reason it would work differently for different players or different areas of the game, it's a fact that it's a haste-related bug.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    If it doesn't tick 5 times on a target dummy, and you go into a raid and use Recount, Skada, or World of Logs and a 5th tick does not show up in the combat log, I think you're just under wishful thinking that a 5th tick is miraculously appearing. There's no reason it would work differently for different players or different areas of the game, it's a fact that it's a haste-related bug.
    What i am saying is it DOES tick 5 times on a target dummy, as well as raids and arena, for me. But I was stating the possibility that seeing five ticks on a dummy under bloodlust may not actually mean 5 ticks on a boss under bloodlust. Bugs are bugs.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by squid View Post
    What i am saying is it DOES tick 5 times on a target dummy, as well as raids and arena, for me. But I was stating the possibility that seeing five ticks on a dummy under bloodlust may not actually mean 5 ticks on a boss under bloodlust. Bugs are bugs.
    You're getting 5 ticks over 14.3% haste on target dummies on live? That would be very strange indeed.

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