Garalon 10m normal, y u no work

[Deleted]

Raid Composition:
2x Blood DK Tanks
2x Arms Warrior
1x Affliction Warlock
1x Boomkin Druid
1x Beastmaster Hunter
1x Frost DK/Ret Paladin
1x Holy Paladin
1x Mistweaver Monk

Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/61b696dddtlzryow/

Guides used:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u9NuNCGgvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i1YISV5jDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z6kJRLhCFU
http://www.icy-veins.com/garalon-detailed-strategy-wow

Have told tanks to watch video's because they seem to be struggling when doing the pheromones, can't guarantee they have but I can hope.

We struggle with the damage nearer the end of the fight and some crappy mistakes where a melee is getting hit by furious swipe when we have 2 tanks. Should we 1 tank and make a warrior take the swipes?

We swap pheromones on 20'ish stacks going around the room, should we be going right into corners or making a sort of oval shape with flat long edges?

Pheromone takers:
Tank > Tank > Warlock > Hunter

Am fed up of wiping on this boss we've seen other guilds have about 20 wipes then kill it, we're marching on towards 100 (just like Elegon).

Any tips, should scrap group? do we suck?

p.s. Hello Bigneo

[Deleted]

Make sure you are using cds for everytime he stomps, also my guild does the pheromones switches at 15 stacks or so.

[Deleted]

One of the bits of information that slips through the cracks for some people on this fight is that the pheromones debuff hits the entire raid harder and harder depending on the number of stacks on the kiter. This means that mathematically you should be switching at 16-18 stacks, not 20, this will make a noticeable difference with the healing. It is also important that you are using raid and personal cooldowns once the current kiter announces that they are at 13-14 stacks, as this means that you have 6-8 seconds of high incoming magic damage from the pheromones, followed by a crush after the switch. We have the current kiter announce that the next person needs to 'get ready' when they are reaching 14 stacks and this gives everybody a nice cue to use their personal cooldowns.

The other important thing is to ensure that your raid is all staying close together, for example if Garalon mends a leg that is on the other side and possibly a little awkward to get to, the raidleader must make a decision of whether to go to it or not, it is generally a good idea to go to it (from a dps perspective) but it is important that EVERYBODY moves, not just the melee for example, as this makes your healers far less efficient whilst people are spread out.

Hope some of this helps!

[Phyxiusx]

100 wipes on normal? wow..

That being said.. We did it with 3 healers and 1 dps rotating the kiting.. We run all the way along the edges, but to be honest it shouldnt really matter that much as the room is so big. We swap at around 20 stacks as well..

Surely you must be doing something else wrong if this boss is causing you so much trouble on normal?

[Deleted]

Also with the pheromones, it's actually more awkward for the tanks to do it as they have to make sure they both remain in furious swipes, I would recommend that you have a tank do the pull and go to 18 stacks, then after that rotate it through 4 (preferably ranged) dpsers. Trying to give it BACK to a tank after the start can be quite awkward with the furious swipes.

[Deleted]

100 wipes on normal? wow..

That being said.. We did it with 3 healers and 1 dps rotating the kiting.. We run all the way along the edges, but to be honest it shouldnt really matter that much as the room is so big. We swap at around 20 stacks as well..

Surely you must be doing something else wrong if this boss is causing you so much trouble on normal?

What we don't have 100 yet, I was saying at this rate we most likely would

---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 10:29 AM ----------

Also with the pheromones, it's actually more awkward for the tanks to do it as they have to make sure they both remain in furious swipes, I would recommend that you have a tank do the pull and go to 18 stacks, then after that rotate it through 4 (preferably ranged) dpsers. Trying to give it BACK to a tank after the start can be quite awkward with the furious swipes.

Okay thank you will see what we can do!

---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 10:30 AM ----------

One of the bits of information that slips through the cracks for some people on this fight is that the pheromones debuff hits the entire raid harder and harder depending on the number of stacks on the kiter. This means that mathematically you should be switching at 16-18 stacks, not 20, this will make a noticeable difference with the healing. It is also important that you are using raid and personal cooldowns once the current kiter announces that they are at 13-14 stacks, as this means that you have 6-8 seconds of high incoming magic damage from the pheromones, followed by a crush after the switch. We have the current kiter announce that the next person needs to 'get ready' when they are reaching 14 stacks and this gives everybody a nice cue to use their personal cooldowns.

The other important thing is to ensure that your raid is all staying close together, for example if Garalon mends a leg that is on the other side and possibly a little awkward to get to, the raidleader must make a decision of whether to go to it or not, it is generally a good idea to go to it (from a dps perspective) but it is important that EVERYBODY moves, not just the melee for example, as this makes your healers far less efficient whilst people are spread out.

Hope some of this helps!

Okay thank you, we were usually spread out all over the place

[Kisho]

We struggle with the damage nearer the end of the fight and some crappy mistakes where a melee is getting hit by furious swipe when we have 2 tanks. Should we 1 tank and make a warrior take the swipes?

If a melee is getting hit by swipes, that melee is standing in the wrong place. There's no cap on how many people take swipes; if they're standing in front of the boss, they'll get swiped.

As for the '1 tank, 1 melee DPS' taking swipes: totally doable, and recommended if you're low on DPS. I'll be honest, you look like you are. Easily done too, provided it's a plate DPS of course.

I'd also suggest maybe having a healer do pheromone kiting instead of the warlock, allows for more DPS. Hunters are pro kiters and the tanks can do it too, no problems.

We swap pheromones on 20'ish stacks going around the room, should we be going right into corners or making a sort of oval shape with flat long edges?

If the tank is kiting, make a smooth semi-circle. If a DPS or healer, they can go into the corners np. You'll need to use all the space you can. 20 stacks of the debuff is exactly right.

As for healing, your paladin could really use a kick up the ass. Yeah, Monks are OP, but the difference shouldn't be THAT extreme.

[Deleted]

Without being able to look at the log, with 4 switches the healers shouldnt have trouble, so you can make one of them take pheromones to get more dps. Also, arms warrior for swipe are more than ok. You have time to switch to def on each one.

[Kisho]

Also with the pheromones, it's actually more awkward for the tanks to do it as they have to make sure they both remain in furious swipes, I would recommend that you have a tank do the pull and go to 18 stacks, then after that rotate it through 4 (preferably ranged) dpsers. Trying to give it BACK to a tank after the start can be quite awkward with the furious swipes.

Eh, doable though. I'd prefer tanks doing it so DPS can focus on nuking the boss, and healers can focus on keeping people alive through heavy raid damage.

To do the switch, wait for a furious swipe. Immediately after, tank dashes to the next kiter (who should be standing somewhat nearby, ready and waiting), transfers pheromones, then runs back in to swipe range. Should be plenty of time for this transition to occur, since most tanks have at least some kind of movement speed increase (heroic leap, roll, charge, pursuit of justice, etc.).

Also when passing pheromones: make it so the old kiter is the one moving to the new kiter, not both running to each other. With client/server latency (which you can do nothing about), you can get situations where they're running after each other, never actually catching up (or passing pheromones multiple times between each other).

[Dougall]

Here's a link to our guild guide/video. Hopefully you can see, and maybe get a decent detailed explanation of how we handle pheromones. Our setup is not too far removed from what yours looks like. We did have at least one or two dps on the body full time for if that helps too. Little shameless self promotion but if you can pick up a tip or two from it's all worth while. Good luck!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UU...yer_detailpage

[Deleted]

Our raidcomp on this boss is:

Blood DK
Prot Warrior
Holy Pally
Resto Shaman
Holy Priest
Combat Rogue
WW Monk
Shadow Priest (sat out on logs)
Fire mage (2x)
Hunter

We just let the range dps take the debuff and let it stack to 30. Thats totally healable, and you get less overall raid damage.
Our tanks are going in full dps gear, with their Blood pressence/Defensive stance on so they are uncrittable.

The Pulls are being done by the dps so they can keep the debuff the first 30 stacks.

Log: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-qt...?s=9239&e=9642 (2 attempt went wrong cuz of messy pulls ;P)

[Oryxx]

I'm suprised people have stuck with your guild that long, had it been me I would have been gone long ago.

[Gandrake]

DPS is very, very low.

All melee should be over 90k, at the very least.

You are going to need around 780k DPS total to down Garalon. If you haven't gotten gear from MSV and your group isn't bringing their a-game, fat chance that you'll ever kill garalon as soon as you'd like.

[Deleted]

If a melee is getting hit by swipes, that melee is standing in the wrong place. There's no cap on how many people take swipes; if they're standing in front of the boss, they'll get swiped.

As for the '1 tank, 1 melee DPS' taking swipes: totally doable, and recommended if you're low on DPS. I'll be honest, you look like you are. Easily done too, provided it's a plate DPS of course.

I'd also suggest maybe having a healer do pheromone kiting instead of the warlock, allows for more DPS. Hunters are pro kiters and the tanks can do it too, no problems.



If the tank is kiting, make a smooth semi-circle. If a DPS or healer, they can go into the corners np. You'll need to use all the space you can. 20 stacks of the debuff is exactly right.

As for healing, your paladin could really use a kick up the ass. Yeah, Monks are OP, but the difference shouldn't be THAT extreme.

Big thank you for reply, will make these changes and get things going, we're doing MSV HC tonight hope that isn't face palm.

Without being able to look at the log, with 4 switches the healers shouldnt have trouble, so you can make one of them take pheromones to get more dps. Also, arms warrior for swipe are more than ok. You have time to switch to def on each one.

Okay thank you, will see if we do this.

Eh, doable though. I'd prefer tanks doing it so DPS can focus on nuking the boss, and healers can focus on keeping people alive through heavy raid damage.

To do the switch, wait for a furious swipe. Immediately after, tank dashes to the next kiter (who should be standing somewhat nearby, ready and waiting), transfers pheromones, then runs back in to swipe range. Should be plenty of time for this transition to occur, since most tanks have at least some kind of movement speed increase (heroic leap, roll, charge, pursuit of justice, etc.).

Also when passing pheromones: make it so the old kiter is the one moving to the new kiter, not both running to each other. With client/server latency (which you can do nothing about), you can get situations where they're running after each other, never actually catching up (or passing pheromones multiple times between each other).

Yea the latency thing did happen on several occasions, really annoying.

Here's a link to our guild guide/video. Hopefully you can see, and maybe get a decent detailed explanation of how we handle pheromones. Our setup is not too far removed from what yours looks like. We did have at least one or two dps on the body full time for if that helps too. Little shameless self promotion but if you can pick up a tip or two from it's all worth while. Good luck!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UU...yer_detailpage

Thanks for video, will definitely watch! Have watched lots and lots of videos hehe

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

We had 3 healers and a tank doing Pheromones. I was second "tank" as retri pala, just put sacred shield on myself and kept TV glyph up as much as possible, was kinda OK tbh.

[Deleted]

Our raidcomp on this boss is:

Blood DK
Prot Warrior
Holy Pally
Resto Shaman
Holy Priest
Combat Rogue
WW Monk
Shadow Priest (sat out on logs)
Fire mage (2x)
Hunter

We just let the range dps take the debuff and let it stack to 30. Thats totally healable, and you get less overall raid damage.
Our tanks are going in full dps gear, with their Blood pressence/Defensive stance on so they are uncrittable.

The Pulls are being done by the dps so they can keep the debuff the first 30 stacks.

Log: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-qt...?s=9239&e=9642 (2 attempt went wrong cuz of messy pulls ;P)

Okay thanks for tips, maybe we have too little DPS to 3 heal it.

I'm suprised people have stuck with your guild that long, had it been me I would have been gone long ago.

Not really answer was looking for but thanks for it anyway.

DPS is very, very low.

All melee should be over 90k, at the very least.

You are going to need around 780k DPS total to down Garalon. If you haven't gotten gear from MSV and your group isn't bringing their a-game, fat chance that you'll ever kill garalon as soon as you'd like.

That's a lot of DPS and we've cleared MSV 2 times but have killed first 4 bosses about 7 times (Elegon was issue)

---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 11:26 AM ----------

We had 3 healers and a tank doing Pheromones. I was second "tank" as retri pala, just put sacred shield on myself and kept TV glyph up as much as possible, was kinda OK tbh.

Thanks, I don't think we can 3 heal it though we have little dps

[Deleted]

Our raidcomp on this boss is:

Blood DK
Prot Warrior
Holy Pally
Resto Shaman
Holy Priest
Combat Rogue
WW Monk
Shadow Priest (sat out on logs)
Fire mage (2x)
Hunter

We just let the range dps take the debuff and let it stack to 30. Thats totally healable, and you get less overall raid damage.
Our tanks are going in full dps gear, with their Blood pressence/Defensive stance on so they are uncrittable.

The Pulls are being done by the dps so they can keep the debuff the first 30 stacks.

Log: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-qt...?s=9239&e=9642 (2 attempt went wrong cuz of messy pulls ;P)

Def stance by itself DOESNT make you uncritable,unless im horribly misinforfed:P

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

Okay thanks for tips, maybe we have too little DPS to 3 heal it.



Not really answer was looking for but thanks for it anyway.



That's a lot of DPS and we've cleared MSV 2 times but have killed first 4 bosses about 7 times (Elegon was issue)

---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 11:26 AM ----------



Thanks, I don't think we can 3 heal it though we have little dps

The thing is, if you let all three healers kite, you will have massive dps increase for your two DPS... I'd also suggest you to have the arms warrior tanking, he can just stand in front of the boss and cleave front legs + body...

[Gandrake]

That's a lot of DPS and we've cleared MSV 2 times but have killed first 4 bosses about 7 times (Elegon was issue)

Well it's definitely a necessary amount of DPS. I wouldn't be surprised if Garalon's enrage was nerfed again, but wouldn't count on it. We pushed almost 800k and barely beat the enrage at 6:50.

I'm tempted to say it's overtuned for 10 man raids. It's definitely one of the fights that 10 man guilds will struggle with due to loot disparity.

Feel like the Warriors really need to pick it up though, it's one of the few fights where Warriors are amazing. Raging Wind Glyph, Dragon Roar, and Bloodbath are great for Multi-target damage. I am also not sure how things are on the arms side of things, but the last time I heard, Bloodbath was the lv 90 talent you wanted as a DPS War, regardless of spec.

[Cowiesh]

1tank, 1dps 2 healers takes the kiting duty. 1tank 1 dps take soak the front cleaves. Melees are mostly on lets, ranged dps legs and body. Loot.

Kiters take 30 stacks if 3, 20 stacks if 4. No need for 2 tanks, a dps or healer can soak the cleave. And all dps should be 80k +. Melees who only on legs can easily go 100k+.

If your players can't pull more than 75k, sorry, but then they suck. You can have 1-2 dps only doing 75k, but when most of your players do that, won't happen. (looked at 2 longest tries)