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  1. #1

    Wind Lord Mel'Jarek

    Im curious as to what spec would be better for this fight frost or fire? My rl thinks frost would be better than fire but i feel the opposite and i wanted to see what the mage community here has found to be the best spec because we are doing attempts tomorrow. Any input and reasons would be beneficial, thanks.

  2. #2
    The Patient Abraxis's Avatar
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    oO ./clap at your Raidlead.

    Multiadds that u can all reach with infernoblast for spreading.
    Think about it.

  3. #3
    Fire's better for this fight. What reasoning did your raid leader have for thinking Frost was preferable?

  4. #4
    Your raid leader is a tool.

  5. #5
    He believed that frost bomb cleaving onto the 6? adds i forget the exact number would do more damage than being able to inferno blast and spreading my dots onto only 3. I told him if you look at logs the top 160ish logs are all fire with the highest being 201k and the top frost log coming in around 160th pullling 157k. To which he replied that frost provided more burst for when we need to focus an add down to which i replied then ill unglyph combust and have it on a 45sec cd to help out with burst. He still insists on me playing frost for this fight even though i believe fire is better.

  6. #6
    The Patient Navoan's Avatar
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    Fire is best, our mage manages insane numbers. Using an excuse of frost has more burst to get an add down? What? All the adds should ideally die pretty much together anyway (as in, all within 5% health of eachother, with the mender always dying first to ensure they don't break from CC and get a heal off).

    There is no real reason to actually spec for burst here... Heavy AoE and normal focusing on one target to bring it down is all that is needed and he's being ridiculous 'forcing' you to play a certain spec (which is worse). Direct him to this thread.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by lhehitman View Post
    He believed that frost bomb cleaving onto the 6? adds i forget the exact number would do more damage than being able to inferno blast and spreading my dots onto only 3. I told him if you look at logs the top 160ish logs are all fire with the highest being 201k and the top frost log coming in around 160th pullling 157k. To which he replied that frost provided more burst for when we need to focus an add down to which i replied then ill unglyph combust and have it on a 45sec cd to help out with burst. He still insists on me playing frost for this fight even though i believe fire is better.
    Like i said he is a tool. You should not unglyph combustion. And if you need to focus an add down something is wrong they should go down at the same pace. Even if you need to burst down a particular add fire is still better!

    And the Add phase is really not that important. going frost would be a big loss in your dps for the "boss phase" and then you prolly hit enrage.

    How many adds are you CC'ing? we do 1 of each to avoid getting any of the mobs on higher HP than the others. Because if 2 is sheeped and only 1 taking damage while at the same time the 2 other add types have 2 taking damage you will have some on high hp when first 2 dies, unless you do significant single target dps(in witch fire is better)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Navoan View Post
    There is no real reason to actually spec for burst here... Heavy AoE and normal focusing on one target to bring it down is all that is needed and he's being ridiculous 'forcing' you to play a certain spec (which is worse). Direct him to this thread.
    I told him that fire would be better for overall damage, aoe, burst, aoe burst, ect yet he insists that i play frost. That was the exact purpose of this thread so that i can direct him here.

  9. #9
    High Overlord Urmydinner's Avatar
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    Frost is just as viable for this fight as Fire is. If you have never played this spec, Frost Orb is completely broken for this fight along with the glyph of Ice Lance. If you look at the top logs for fire and frost on 25 man normal they are pretty close on average. Less people actually play Frost so there is less of a playerbase to draw from, so the logs are probably going to be lower on average.


    On a single target fight, frost comes out about 1% worse than Fire.





    -Arcane is a different story.
    Last edited by Urmydinner; 2012-11-15 at 09:48 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by lhehitman View Post
    I told him that fire would be better for overall damage, aoe, burst, aoe burst, ect yet he insists that i play frost. That was the exact purpose of this thread so that i can direct him here.
    Please do. RL if you read this ill say it for the 3rd time YOUR A TOOL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urmydinner View Post
    Frost is just as viable for this fight as Fire is. If you have never played this spec, Frost Orb is completely broken for this fight along with the glyph of Ice Lance. If you look at the top logs for fire and frost on 25 man normal they are pretty close on average.
    it might be viable, but far from being better... there is a difference, specially when he is getting forced into it. And again frost will fall considerably behind in the boss phase of this fight.

  11. #11
    The Patient Navoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stX3 View Post
    How many adds are you CC'ing? we do 1 of each to avoid getting any of the mobs on higher HP than the others. Because if 2 is sheeped and only 1 taking damage while at the same time the 2 other add types have 2 taking damage you will have some on high hp when first 2 dies, unless you do significant single target dps(in witch fire is better)
    It's much easier to CC 2 of the menders imo (much less need for constant Mass Dispells too). Simply mark the solo mender with a skull, ask your melee to be targeting them whilst cleaving/AoE, have your tank targeting it too (needs interupted too so gj). With just 1 melle+tank attacking it with white hits whilst AoEing etc it'll take massive dmg and offset that which you loose by only having one there. We've done it every time and there is no problem at all killing the mender first.

    Edit: So CC 2 Menders, 1 Trapper, 1 Blademaster.
    Last edited by Navoan; 2012-11-15 at 09:47 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by stX3 View Post
    How many adds are you CC'ing? we do 1 of each to avoid getting any of the mobs on higher HP than the others. Because if 2 is sheeped and only 1 taking damage while at the same time the 2 other add types have 2 taking damage you will have some on high hp when first 2 dies, unless you do significant single target dps(in witch fire is better)
    I'm not positive that sheep does this specifically to these adds - it might be suppressed somehow intentionally by blizzard - but sheep heals the target.. a lot. That might be the cause of not being able to get that one add low, if you were being literal. Having people focus cleaves off of that one target should be sufficient to kill them all at the same time.

    Also, do we know exactly which effects count as CC on the adds? Certain classes abilities with stun components might be a concern if CCing 4... I hadn't really thought about it until now.

  13. #13
    you clearly have not had any attempts on the fight, there are weapon racks that impale the bugs to keep them cc'd

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by lhehitman View Post
    you clearly have not had any attempts on the fight, there are weapon racks that impale the bugs to keep them cc'd
    "if you were being literal"

    I was responding to the fact that he specifically said sheeped. I'm aware of the fight mechanics.

  15. #15
    my mistake i didnt even notice he said sheep >< i just read it as ccd

  16. #16
    fire is better on every hof fight

  17. #17
    Dreadlord
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    As a Frost lover and ranked 1 or 2nd on this fight, I say use fire! If your guild is able to handle re-cc and/or interruption, then combust them away! I just played frost there (switched to fire recently for progression, because fire does more damage on nearly every encounter), because we have to take 2 - 3 random player at the moment and we needed to cc 4 adds (dunno what´s the problem with interrupting adds : /)

    P.S. Frost Bomb is the strongest magebomb on this fight
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2012-11-15 at 12:19 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by lhehitman View Post
    He believed that frost bomb cleaving onto the 6? adds i forget the exact number would do more damage than being able to inferno blast and spreading my dots onto only 3....
    1. I hope you mean frost orb you can frost bomb as fire as well which you should of course have
    2. you're not only spreading dots on 2 adds. I think each time you infernoblast they go to a different add
    3. glyphed combustion is always better when it stays on the mobs for the complete duration
    4. we do focus an add, but any cleave damage is appreciated - you have to kill the healers first (at least in our strategy - we CC 2 Healers and 1 from the other 2 groups), that is what fire is really great at. Keep nuking that one healer while spreading your dots to the rest. Use Frost Bomb for maximum AoE damage.

  19. #19
    What does Frost Bomb have to do with playing Fire?
    Has your raid leader played a Mage since Cataclysm?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by reflection View Post
    1. I hope you mean frost orb you can frost bomb as fire as well which you should of course have
    2. you're not only spreading dots on 2 adds. I think each time you infernoblast they go to a different add
    3. glyphed combustion is always better when it stays on the mobs for the complete duration
    4. we do focus an add, but any cleave damage is appreciated - you have to kill the healers first (at least in our strategy - we CC 2 Healers and 1 from the other 2 groups), that is what fire is really great at. Keep nuking that one healer while spreading your dots to the rest. Use Frost Bomb for maximum AoE damage.
    3. No. Nothing about glyphed combustion is better except for the fact that it lines up with CDs. Getting an extra combustion off completely outweighs that benefit, if you can guarantee that you're going to do so.
    4. The ideal strategy on this fight is killing all of the adds at the same time
    Last edited by dennisdkramer; 2012-11-15 at 12:29 PM.

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