How to reward 25 man raids for "logistical effort"

[Injin]

That is flat out false in many, many ways (when talking about progression raiding and bosses that actually mean something).

Again, progression and heroic raiding isn't relly involved in this debate, which is talking about popularity of raid size.

[Isopahajuho]

Just add "Search players" button to 25man raids and u can fill rest of ur spots with randoms. 25mans are tuned for 15players and 10 bodies laying @ floor.

[Martoshi]

Again, progression and heroic raiding isn't relly involved in this debate, which is talking about popularity of raid size.

The fundamentals are still the same. I'm talking about encounters where the raid is performing at their limit, trying to kill a new boss. What's outside the scope is LFR, which you can't even call "raiding" with a straight face.

[Trainwreck]

25 mans are already rewarded more. They get more loot and because of higher class diversification the loot they get almost always goes to someone. In 10 mans we are constantly de'ing loot because no one needs it however there is loot that people need (it just hasn't dropped). It seems to me things are balanced now. The only reason 10's are more popular is because it's more fun and easier to get along with 9 others rather than 24 other players (totally my opinion of course).

[Dragore]

25 man raids already get so much more loot then 10man. I don't think that 25man needs any more incentives. If people are really going from 25 to 10 it seems like its a time for change. 10man might be the new dominate raiding size. It just sounds like people want Blizzard to force them to do something else. If you don't like the raiding atmosphere of a 10man look for a 25man guild.

[Espe]

Just add "Search players" button to 25man raids and u can fill rest of ur spots with randoms. 25mans are tuned for 15players and 10 bodies laying @ floor.

This is actually a good suggestion to help out the struggling 25 man guilds. As you've said, 25 is forgiving enough to pug a few players here and there - that's how it was designed.

[Martoshi]

This is actually a good suggestion to help out the struggling 25 man guilds. As you've said, 25 is forgiving enough to pug a few players here and there - that's how it was designed.

Yeah, just stop. You obviously have no idea how real 25 man raiding works.

[Larrius]

25 man raids already get so much more loot then 10man. I don't think that 25man needs any more incentives. If people are really going from 25 to 10 it seems like its a time for change. 10man might be the new dominate raiding size. It just sounds like people want Blizzard to force them to do something else. If you don't like the raiding atmosphere of a 10man look for a 25man guild.

It's actually less loot per person than in 10 man. You get 2 tokens in 25man, that's 1 token for each 12.5man vs 1 token per 10man, also you get 3 pieces of loot, which is 1 piece per ~8.3 raiders, vs 2 pieces of loot in 10 man (1 piece per 5 man).

Not even talking anout BS with legendary gem, you get 1 quest item from Sha per 25 man raid and same 1 quest item on 10 man.

[Espe]

You obviously have no idea how real 25 man raiding works.

Going to quote the people who designed 10m and 25m once again:

In 25s you can afford to have a few deaths and you can even pull if you're backfilling a few players. Both really make you stop in your tracks on 10s. In 25, it's easier to fade back into the group if you're still not 100% confident in what you're doing. In 10s, it's harder to be a wallflower.

[Wildtree]

Gold charms for clearing a raid in 25 man?

That I think is an excellent idea. Should suggest it over in the official forums.

[Martoshi]

Going to quote the people who designed 10m and 25m once again:

You can keep quoting fallacies all you want, it won't make them true.

[Injin]

Yeah, just stop. You obviously have no idea how real 25 man raiding works.

If by "real" 25 man raiding you mean progression and HC modes, you are wrong.

[Wildtree]

Not even talking anout BS with legendary gem, you get 1 quest item from Sha per 25 man raid and same 1 quest item on 10 man.

That's suspected to be a bug.

[Martoshi]

If by "real" 25 man raiding you mean progression and HC modes, you are wrong.

So you're saying in progression raiding and HC modes it's fine to pug people and have people fuck up? Okay, that's fine. It's not what happens in reality, but you're free to hold onto any delusions you wish.

[Espe]

blah blah

So show me where any WoW dev has ever stated that 25s are harder to execute than 10s?

You can't, because that just isn't true. It might be harder to find more people, but 25s are much, much easier to execute than 10s. That is how they were designed.

[Punisher069]

Isn't the incentive for 25 man the more epic and more prestigious raid size?

[Martoshi]

So show me where any WoW dev has ever stated that 25s are harder to execute than 10s?

What? You do realize WoW devs stating something doesn't make it true, right?

You can't, because that just isn't true. It might be harder to find more people, but 25s are much, much easier to execute than 10s. That is how they were designed.

Perhaps you should try doing some proper 25 man raiding, you'll be surprised.

[Espe]

double post

[Martoshi]

Been, there, done that. Needed more of a challenge. Moved on to 10hm.

That's cute. It's painfully obvious you haven't.

[Espe]

Isn't the incentive for 25 man the more epic and more prestigious raid size?

More epic? I guess it might seem that way with a few more bodies in the instance.

More prestigious? I don't think even most 25m raiders believe that. They just want their shinies in the easiest mode possible and they have enough people around to fill them out.

Perhaps you should try doing some proper 25 man raiding, you'll be surprised.

Been there, done that. Needed more of a challenge. Moved on to 10hm.

Perhaps you should try some proper raiding instead of coasting through the easiest mode?