1. #1

    Combat, rupture or not?

    As the title says, have brought my alt rogue to 90 and was reading on EJ that using rupture was a small dps gain.
    But when i look at WoL not a single high ranked combat rogue used rupture.
    So, should i use it or not? And if i should, do i just apply one with 5 CP's at the start and refresh it when there is around 1 sec left?
    Last edited by Rusk; 2012-11-25 at 12:19 AM.

  2. #2
    Don't bother with that, for single target combat sucks with or without rupture

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusk View Post
    As the title says, have brought my alt rogue to 90 and was reading on EJ that using rupture was a small dps gain.
    But when i look at WoL not a single high ranked combat rogue used rupture.
    So, should i use it or not? And if i should, do i just apply one with 5 CP's at the start and refresh it when there is around 1 sec left?
    This is just a guess but you are probably looking at cleave fights mostly. In those fights, you won't be using rupture as it doesn't get applied to the cleaved target.
    About rupture, yes it is usually a slight dps gain to keep it going. Try to use it at least in green and red insight for starters and see how it goes.

    But as the above poster said, combat is not that effective as the other specs on single target fights.

  4. #4
    most rogues dont go combat unless its a cleave fight. during cleave fights you dont rupture.

    that being said, in times like garalon when he has no legs up where youre doing single target, rupture is a DPE gain (leading to a DPS gain) in situations where youre not energy capped. its -better- to use it, that being said, its not -much- better. Its up to you weather the tiny tiny tiny dps gain is worth it

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    Don't bother with that, for single target combat sucks with or without rupture
    Doesn't seem to be that big of a difference on single target according to WoL and raidbots.

  6. #6
    Generally speaking, it's never really been worth the hassle to me. The gain is negligible and at current haste levels, it becomes quite a chore to keep track of. Amassing the necessary combo points for a good SND alone can be slow at times...

    I prefer to simplify the rotation, remove the risk of losing dps to minor details, and to only play Combat on cleave-heavy fights anyway.

  7. #7
    I use Rupture, but only after I've answered yes to all of the following:

    1. Am I at 20% or towards the end (4 seconds or less) of 30% Bandit's Guile?
    2. Do I have more than 7 seconds left on Slice and Dice?
    3. Do I have more than 2 stacks of Anticipation to use in addition to this finisher? (this part for every finisher in general)

    If any of those conditions aren't met, then Eviscerate will be stronger 9 times out of 10.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusk View Post
    But when i look at WoL not a single high ranked combat rogue used rupture.
    Currently rank 1 on Gara'jal - link, your statement is invalid.

  9. #9
    Rupture is a lot nicer now that it lasts longer. I rupture single target. If I'm a couple strikes away from a new color I'll push them first, which I'm not sure is optimal, but seems like it is. Basically, a rupture will out damage an eviscerate if it's going to go full duration, so that's a nice change to the spec. Combat is actually a nicer spec than in cata, though it does seem to do reasonably poor dps single target, at least at my gear level.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Carp The Fish View Post
    I use Rupture, but only after I've answered yes to all of the following:

    1. Am I at 20% or towards the end (4 seconds or less) of 30% Bandit's Guile?
    2. Do I have more than 7 seconds left on Slice and Dice?
    3. Do I have more than 2 stacks of Anticipation to use in addition to this finisher? (this part for every finisher in general)

    If any of those conditions aren't met, then Eviscerate will be stronger 9 times out of 10.
    You are making things way, way too complicated. Here's my list that is a guaranteed DPS increase:

    1. Am I attacking one target?
    2. Will Rupture tick it's full duration?

    While it isn't optimal, Rupture is always more DPS compared to Eviscerate unless you are cleaving to a 2nd target or if the boss will die or go immune during a part of it. After those two questions Rupture damage will only become better or more significant if you follow all those other little rules. My point is, Rupture is always a DPS increase unless the above two conditions aren't met.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    Currently rank 1 on Gara'jal - link, your statement is invalid.
    Well that's 1

  12. #12
    rupture at 5 CP: (231 + 32 * 1 * 5 + 0.062 * AP * 1 * 0.5 * 24) over 24 sec
    eviscerate at 5 CP: 370+((980 * 5) + AP * 0.8)*1-1108+((980 * 5) + AP * 0.8)*1

    that means that rupture does (391 base and scales with 74.4% of AP) per tick, 12 ticks, or 4692 and 74.4% of AP, while eviscerate does 5639 base and scales with 80% of AP. so lower start and slower scaling. am I missing something, or is rupture just always weaker?

  13. #13
    2 things
    1) Evis is effected by armor while rupture is not
    2) Rupture cost 25 energy while evis cost 35 energy

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    rupture at 5 CP: (231 + 32 * 1 * 5 + 0.062 * AP * 1 * 0.5 * 24) over 24 sec
    eviscerate at 5 CP: 370+((980 * 5) + AP * 0.8)*1-1108+((980 * 5) + AP * 0.8)*1

    that means that rupture does (391 base and scales with 74.4% of AP) per tick, 12 ticks, or 4692 and 74.4% of AP, while eviscerate does 5639 base and scales with 80% of AP. so lower start and slower scaling. am I missing something, or is rupture just always weaker?
    What eijin said basically. Try it in-game, Rupture always does more damage no matter what. The DPS increase it provides is amplified if you follow that huge list of rules however.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    rupture at 5 CP: (231 + 32 * 1 * 5 + 0.062 * AP * 1 * 0.5 * 24) over 24 sec
    eviscerate at 5 CP: 370+((980 * 5) + AP * 0.8)*1-1108+((980 * 5) + AP * 0.8)*1

    that means that rupture does (391 base and scales with 74.4% of AP) per tick, 12 ticks, or 4692 and 74.4% of AP, while eviscerate does 5639 base and scales with 80% of AP. so lower start and slower scaling. am I missing something, or is rupture just always weaker?
    I might be mistaken, but the reasoning for it being "stronger" isn't because it does more damage by itself, but because it provides more damage for the energy consumed; It does more damage per energy, and not just "more damage".

    EDIT: I'd like to think I was CLOSE to the truth...!

  16. #16
    It used to be higher dpe. Now it's higher damage.

  17. #17
    It dosnt scale as well as evis, so it beings better at both, then gear gets better and it becomes just better DPE (still better dps due to that), then as gear becomes even better (as we reached at the end of dragonsoul) its outright lower DPS to use it.

  18. #18
    the gain is very very small, like a .% dps gain.

    If you manage to fit it in, its because you have a lot of haste to make up for eviscerating less.

    With having to keep SnD up, and having to deal with other aspects of combat, until you have a decent ammount of haste, I wouldn't bother with it.

    I also recommend icy veins for additional questions, as sifting through EJ for questions tends to get difficult.

    http://www.icy-veins.com/combat-rogue-wow-pve-dps-guide

    Hopefully this helped you.

  19. #19
    But when i look at WoL not a single high ranked combat rogue used rupture.
    I beg to differ.

    OT: every dps gain is a gain, as single it might be.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusk View Post
    Well that's 1
    That's Gara'jal rankings. 3 of top five used rupture.
    Last edited by Mazius; 2012-11-26 at 02:43 AM.

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