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  1. #1

    Rogues any fun to play?

    I am considering to reroll a rogue again, are they any fun to play? I know that they will get buffed in 5.1

  2. #2
    General consensus: No.
    Will we get buffed in 5.1: Not really...
    Should you re-roll: Probably not...

  3. #3
    I like my rogue, I find it fun......So much passive dmg is great!
    But I like soloing.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    General consensus: No.
    Will we get buffed in 5.1: Not really...
    Should you re-roll: Probably not...
    This is extremely subjective, I am playing my rogue from BC on up and I still enjoy it right now. Therefore I play it.

    On topic : If you enjoy playing a melee class and depending on what you want to do : PVE/PVP, and what you expect from your char, rogue might or might not be the class for you, there is no clear cut answer for you but I can tell you that a lot of people, me included, enjoy playing their rogue in the current PVE tier if that's what you're looking for.

  5. #5
    No, and that includes the end of Cataclysm period in which they were godlike killing machines.

  6. #6
    i enjoy questing and playing on my own, i like to pick and choose which fights to fight and to run from others, dropping combat and running is core to rogues.

    But this is warcraft and you cant hide for ever, when combat starts you use the same core abilitys regardless, passive damage is over 50-60 maybe ever 70% of what we do.

    Very little comes from me pushing a button and seeing numbers pop up, its all auto attacks, poisens procs enchants, passive passive passive. you do a finisher to buff passive damage, you then do another finisher to do apply a new source of passive over time damage, then if you get many adds you do a finisher which does tiny burst and ever more over time damage.

    There is no excuse for having rogues this bad, its just lazy design, i hope the person in charge is held responsible for this mess,

    Rogue should be fast and fun, we ware leather so we can move faster be and be agile. everything about wows rogue is slow and boring.

  7. #7
    I played a rogue in Vanilla. I found them very fun to play. But I don't know how they are in MoP, that's why I am asking you.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranera View Post
    I played a rogue in Vanilla. I found them very fun to play. But I don't know how they are in MoP, that's why I am asking you.
    Well, they basically play the same. If they were fun for you in vanilla, they will be fun for you now I guess.
    Shadow Walk : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec, but causes Stealth to be nerfed to justify its usage. In addition, it uses old Enveloping Shadows icon and has no sound, animation or spell effect to show that the skill is actually doing something.

  9. #9
    Field Marshal HalseyUS's Avatar
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    General: Kind of squishy without gear (Dailies / Other world events)
    PvE: Damage is better than Average, not "Top of the Meters" damage but It's always like this at the start of an expansion
    PvP: Mobility is decent, Damage is "Average", Still a fun class to play in the PvP area

    Overall: As of right now its still a fun class to play, but honestly that's my Biased opinion since I'll play rogue in whatever state they are in

    Halsey - Semi Retired | US[/URL] | Signature made by i4ni

  10. #10
    i think rogue atm plays like some kind of melee caster without a casting-bar. you push a button and wait. after a few seconds you push the next button. casters wait for their cast to be finished (casting bar), rogues wait for their energy to refill. consequently compared to a warrior or dk you have lots of downtime where you actually aren't doing anything.
    i always think about rerolling, too, but whenever i login on my warri or dk and did some dungeons, i get back to my rogue. i guess it's really some kind of personal preferrence.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogaeu View Post
    i think rogue atm plays like some kind of melee caster without a casting-bar. you push a button and wait. after a few seconds you push the next button. casters wait for their cast to be finished (casting bar), rogues wait for their energy to refill. consequently compared to a warrior or dk you have lots of downtime where you actually aren't doing anything.
    i always think about rerolling, too, but whenever i login on my warri or dk and did some dungeons, i get back to my rogue. i guess it's really some kind of personal preferrence.
    geez, try combat and sub if you think, you wait too much. There's almost always a button to push.

  12. #12
    it's better but still a lot of waiting. however, didn't complain, i just described the feeling when playing rogue atm.

  13. #13
    Every class has wait time, warriors need rage, dk needs runes, monk need chi, casters have cast time, etc. the number of buttons pressed is relatively similar and the rotations aren't much different in execution or difficulty. People who complain are (my opinion) probably not familiar with end game on multiple classes. PvP is obviously different, but rogues are just as fun as every other class in PvE.

    I've rotated mains over the years to help my guild (warrior, shaman, warlock, rogue, priest) all at high end progression raiding and I've alt raided on Mage and hunter also. My point? They all have little quirks, fun things and boring things. A lot of melee classes have mostly or significant passive dmg, enh shaman anyone? That doesn't make the rotation any different. Saying passive dmg makes the class boring is ridiculous because it has literally nothing to do with how engaging the play is. Dmg is just numbers. What makes a class fun is the rotation that produces them, not where the percentages come. A good rogue still severely outperforms a bad one, even if passive dmg is 60% or more of our dmg it doesn't mean you can auto attack. Doing things to improve passive dmg is still doing things. Who cares if a finisher is keeping up SnD or does 150k dmg? Do people seriously care about big numbers on there screen or brag about the biggest crit?

    I mean, if someone bragged to me about how hard they hit and then I smoke them by 20k dps on the meters I'm still going to think they are terrible. My guilds have always cared more about how effective you are than anything else. Then again, I've been a serious raider over the years and downing bosses is fun....not big numbers or "active" damage. Also, every class has things to do to buff passive dmg. Bleeds, diseases, debuffs, stacks of buffs. ALL of them. Listen to the devs, for once they got it right: rogues are fine. If you're sick of the class (they have "felt" the same for several expansions now) then reroll or quit. End of story, asking for a major overhaul will ruin the class a lot of us still love. Right on the heels of some of the best changes EVER for us: shadowstep mutilate, prep back as an option, more dungeon utility (shroud for challenges), feint with no cd, etc.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    General consensus: No.
    Will we get buffed in 5.1: Not really...
    Should you re-roll: Probably not...
    I really hope you were being serious because those are my thoughts exactly.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    I really hope you were being serious because those are my thoughts exactly.
    I was.

    The general consensus, at least among the "vocal minority" (I.e. the majority of forum posters and people who actually voice their opinions) happens to be, no, the class isn't very fun to play, has some fundamental issues, and is uninspiring across the board; be it glyphs, talents, mechanics, or general rotations, the class seems sub-par. Yes, damage is fine, but that doesn't mean the class is fine.

    We're not seeing any real buffs/problems being addressed in 5.1, at least not as of the date I'm writing this. There's one buff to Blind, which is a buff we didn't even ask for. Mobility still sucks, which is THE major complaint of our time. Damage is still incredibly low; not due to gear, but due to mechanical/design issues. Survivability is also horrendous due to the cost on damage/utility it comes with with. So all around, we're still fucked and we still see no signs of the devs listening to reason.

    And again, should he re-roll? Not unless he'll never PvP and he enjoys being second-rate in PvE.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rory View Post
    -snip-
    I simply wanted to say that I completely agree with you and that I personally don't think all of the complaints on the forums are fully justified. I do however wanted to mention that the new Revealing Strike from Combat is quite boring and pretty much the same as Hemo from Subtlety last expansion. Combat went from this fast paced spec where you have to pay attention to a very fixed and in my opinion boring rotation.

    My complaints about Rogues currently aren't about our damage, scaling, or energy regeneration. My complaints about Rogues are tier 14 itself where certain amounts of ranged are required and Rogues don't bring anything to justify taking a raid spot for. Our cleave damage is just stupid on the Stone Guards but...that's about it really. If my raid leader allowed me to I would switch to a ranged straight away. I really don't want to quit my Rogue but I'm not going to sit here and keep the bench warm so our ranged raiders can carry me through content afterwards. My damage is great but that damage is useless if we are dying because we don't have enough ranged to handle the adds on Will of the Emperor for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rory View Post
    Doing things to improve passive dmg is still doing things. Who cares if a finisher is keeping up SnD or does 150k dmg? Do people seriously care about big numbers on there screen or brag about the biggest crit?
    Agreed again, but I do understand other people's view on this. Refreshing Slice and Dice after finally getting 5 combo points doesn't feel very interesting. You don't really see your damage improve, in fact you don't even notice anything. We build up combo points to unleash this giant finishing blow to our enemy. Yet, Slice and Dice doesn't even feel like you are hitting your victim with a wet noodle, you're not hitting anything in fact. All it does it refresh this bar (if you use an addon) on your screen.
    Last edited by Bovan; 2012-10-29 at 08:44 PM.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Dreamer, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Frenzy, mini Llama.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Rory View Post
    Every class has wait time, warriors need rage, dk needs runes, monk need chi, casters have cast time, etc. the number of buttons pressed is relatively similar and the rotations aren't much different in execution or difficulty. People who complain are (my opinion) probably not familiar with end game on multiple classes. PvP is obviously different, but rogues are just as fun as every other class in PvE.

    I've rotated mains over the years to help my guild (warrior, shaman, warlock, rogue, priest) all at high end progression raiding and I've alt raided on Mage and hunter also. My point? They all have little quirks, fun things and boring things. A lot of melee classes have mostly or significant passive dmg, enh shaman anyone? That doesn't make the rotation any different. Saying passive dmg makes the class boring is ridiculous because it has literally nothing to do with how engaging the play is. Dmg is just numbers. What makes a class fun is the rotation that produces them, not where the percentages come. A good rogue still severely outperforms a bad one, even if passive dmg is 60% or more of our dmg it doesn't mean you can auto attack. Doing things to improve passive dmg is still doing things. Who cares if a finisher is keeping up SnD or does 150k dmg? Do people seriously care about big numbers on there screen or brag about the biggest crit?

    I mean, if someone bragged to me about how hard they hit and then I smoke them by 20k dps on the meters I'm still going to think they are terrible. My guilds have always cared more about how effective you are than anything else. Then again, I've been a serious raider over the years and downing bosses is fun....not big numbers or "active" damage. Also, every class has things to do to buff passive dmg. Bleeds, diseases, debuffs, stacks of buffs. ALL of them. Listen to the devs, for once they got it right: rogues are fine. If you're sick of the class (they have "felt" the same for several expansions now) then reroll or quit. End of story, asking for a major overhaul will ruin the class a lot of us still love. Right on the heels of some of the best changes EVER for us: shadowstep mutilate, prep back as an option, more dungeon utility (shroud for challenges), feint with no cd, etc.
    wow you are an elitists. do you seriously think you are better than somebody else because you did 20k more dmg than them?
    or is that 20k extra damage because of your gear?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by superstarz View Post
    wow you are an elitists. do you seriously think you are better than somebody else because you did 20k more dmg than them?
    or is that 20k extra damage because of your gear?
    You didn't actually read his post, did you?
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Dreamer, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Frenzy, mini Llama.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Rory View Post
    -snip-
    I respectfully disagree with a lot of your points. I'll try to go through all of them, if possible.

    1. "Every class has wait-time..."
    Not entirely correct. There's a significant difference between "down-time" and simple "waiting". Some melee classes/specs, working with resource systems than can be depleted, do indeed have some down-time on their rotations, due to a general lack of resources. Casters, however, do not. Casting a spell isn't "waiting for the rotation to continue" it is a part of the rotation. Casting the spell is, in itself, an action you're performing. You're not "doing nothing". Nevermind the fact that once the cast is finished, guess what? You have more buttons to push, and you can ALWAYS push them. As a DK, however, you may very well have hit an unlucky streak when gaming runes, in which case you won't be able to do anything whatsoever for a couple of seconds.

    2. "Many melee classes have passive damage..."
    Yes, but to varying degrees. The melee/dot damage of a Frost DK, for instance, only makes up about 30%~ of his overall damage. The remaining 70% are entirely special-based. Looking at some of the Fury warrior parses, I'm seeing up to 50% damage coming from 200k-hitting Executes alone! Then we have rogues, who primarily dps via passive sources, and we see upwards of 60% damage coming from white/poison hits.

    3. "Big numbers do not matter..."
    Very, very, very false dichotomy. It's not as simple as that. For PvE, any output is fine, unless it comes at some ridiculous expense(High ramp-up, weak target swapping, etc...). However, you dramatically underestimate the value of general rotational burst, both for PvE and PvP purposes. One of our biggest issues in PvP, as of now, is how much ramp-up we have, how much of our damage is tied to our finishers, and how said finishers only affect our passive output, which is of little to no use in PvP. On that same note, quick swap-bursts are, literally, impossible for us because of our high reliance on passive damage as well. Remember Madness? The Blistering Tentacles? There was simply no point switching to them because a, your specials did no damage, b, your combo points would disappear before you could spend them, c, you'd be energy starved afterwards while your rotation would suffer from the loss of finishers.

    4. "Apparent satisfaction regarding the talent-tree."
    This is were my respectfulness ends. That's pure lunacy and you ought to walk the plank for uttering such blasphemous propositions!
    Last edited by Incineration; 2012-10-29 at 10:06 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    2. "Many melee classes have passive damage..."
    Yes, but to varying degrees. The melee/dot damage of a Frost DK, for instance, only makes up about 30%~ of his overall damage. The remaining 70% are entirely special-based. Then we have rogues, who primarily dps via passive sources, and we see upwards of 60% damage coming from white/poison hits.
    I personally don't quite agree. A Death Knight doesn't use his diseases for damage, he uses his diseases to boost his or her other abilities. This isn't much different from say Rupture for a Subtlety Rogue and is actually comparable to Slice and Dice as well to some degree. You are actively managing a dot, buff or debuff that increases your damage whether it's from passive or active sources. I don't consider Slice and Dice's damage increase passive although it does to be fair boost nothing but passive damage (ignoring Combat Potency procs for Combat). We are actually constantly busy upping our passive damage. Saying at the end of a fight while looking at recount or a log ''Wow look at all that passive damage'' isn't very fair.

    But this is one of the reasons I'm complaining about the new Revealing Strike. Before we actively had to watch out when we had to use Revealing Strike. Right now I can watch TV and still manage Revealing Strike, I find it very boring and it feels ''passive''.

    Funny story when my raid leader asked me to help him test his Bear tanking capabilities. He wanted me to just auto-attack him and do nothing else, but after poking him for a while he started complaining that I was messing with him and that I had to do more damage. So I tried my regular rotation for just a few seconds and blew him up shortly after. After that, he started complaining that I was doing too much. Up to this day he still doesn't understand that I didn't have a choice. I either need to go full out to get my buffs and debuffs rolling or hardly do anything.

    Just having a friendly discussion here, I don't mean any harm despite not fully agreeing with you.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Dreamer, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Frenzy, mini Llama.

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