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  1. #1

    Prot expertise (is there something i've missed?)

    Now that hit and expertise has become manditory for both threat and survival with shield block and barrier, i've gone and spyed on some of the top raiding warrior's armories as a guide to which state to sacrifice to reach the soft caps, it was when i saw sco from Method's expertise rating that i wondered If i were missing something as his is currently 14% (double than the dodge cap)

    So my question is this: Must we now reforge/gem to reach the hard cap for expertise or was it just for heroic sha progression?

  2. #2
    "Soft cap" means nothing any more, at least for warriors. Expertise below 7.5% removes dodge, expertise above 7.5% removes parry. It's not like the old system where expertise below dodge cap removed both dodge and parry, and expertise above dodge cap removed parry, going from 0% expertise to 1% expertise removes 1% of avoided attacks, just as going from 14% to 15% (in absolute terms). Expertise doesn't magically change in value at 7.5% any more.

  3. #3
    I understand that, i know about the new changes and that it isn't needed as much, but to see a top tank reforge like that gets me thinking.

  4. #4
    Pretty much every tank is going full expertise and hit to cap, followed by haste, mastery or crit and completely ignoring dodge/parry right now.
    Warrior is crit/mastery.
    Paladin is haste/mastery.
    Druid is crit/mastery.
    DK I'm not sure about, anyone know?
    Monks are crit/haste.
    (Don't have a warrior or paladin, and still haven't done my dk research, but that's my guess).

    As far as I'm aware, everyone (not sure about dks, because of rune strike and death strike) wants hit and expertise caps. More rage/holy power/chi to have more mitigation from abilities (shield block/barrier/shield of the righteous, purifying brew, shuffle, chi waves, survival instincts, frenzied regen). I might be wrong, but, at least on my monk I know that's how it works. (More elusive brew as well).
    Last edited by Toxiel; 2012-11-25 at 03:46 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by un_known View Post
    I understand that, i know about the new changes and that it isn't needed as much, but to see a top tank reforge like that gets me thinking.
    How did you get "it isn't needed as much" from what I said. If you decide to go expertise, the only logical place to stop is at 15%, it doesn't magically lose value at dodge cap.

    And to The Dark Child - crit is almost entirely useless for prot warriors, providing a minor dps increase and no other benefit (just like haste).

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhia View Post
    How did you get "it isn't needed as much" from what I said. If you decide to go expertise, the only logical place to stop is at 15%, it doesn't magically lose value at dodge cap.
    Haha tbh i really have no idea dumb moment i guess ^^ and as for the "going for 15%" this is the first time i've seen any Word of it as most guides are saying to just go for the 7.5% "cap" but yeah, finding out New things everytime you perv on others' armories is sometimes a good thing ;D

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark Child View Post
    Pretty much every tank is going full expertise and hit to cap, followed by haste, mastery or crit and completely ignoring dodge/parry right now.
    Warrior is crit/mastery.
    Paladin is haste/mastery.
    Druid is crit/mastery.
    DK I'm not sure about, anyone know?
    Monks are crit/haste.
    (Don't have a warrior or paladin, and still haven't done my dk research, but that's my guess).

    As far as I'm aware, everyone (not sure about dks, because of rune strike and death strike) wants hit and expertise caps. More rage/holy power/chi to have more mitigation from abilities (shield block/barrier/shield of the righteous, purifying brew, shuffle, chi waves, survival instincts, frenzied regen). I might be wrong, but, at least on my monk I know that's how it works. (More elusive brew as well).
    I believe DK is haste/mastery.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by un_known View Post
    Haha tbh i really have no idea dumb moment i guess ^^ and as for the "going for 15%" this is the first time i've seen any Word of it as most guides are saying to just go for the 7.5% "cap" but yeah, finding out New things everytime you perv on others' armories is sometimes a good thing ;D
    It is also, largely a matter of gear. It's easy to say that if you get any expertise, you should get the top 15% but it isn't that simple. I am in 480 level right now and even reforging everything, I can barely reach 7.5% hit / 7.5% expertise. Granted, I could still upgrade a few pieces but without sacrificing hit, it is pretty darn difficult to reach 15% (5100 rating) on expertise, at least outside heroic raiding gear.

    And in the end, you have to wonder if it's even necessary. With 7.5% in both hit and expertise, it's rare for me to have difficulties in getting the rage for shield blocks (with plenty left over), which is the primary reason to get those stats. Anything beyond that is more just a dps boost. So to answer your question, no, I don't think it's necessary to go 15% on expertise. 7.5% is fine for immediate purpose, unless you are doing the hardest content in the game.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyl View Post
    It is also, largely a matter of gear. It's easy to say that if you get any expertise, you should get the top 15% but it isn't that simple. I am in 480 level right now and even reforging everything, I can barely reach 7.5% hit / 7.5% expertise. Granted, I could still upgrade a few pieces but without sacrificing hit, it is pretty darn difficult to reach 15% (5100 rating) on expertise, at least outside heroic raiding gear.
    No idea how you struggle to reach 7,5/7,5 in 480 gear :s
    I have 7,5/15% in 476 gear :P
    Dont have a single heroic item Armory (I can still reach it without the dps trinket but only gonna play lfr, wanted bit extra dps)

    Just came back after a few weeks, when did the prio become CRIT/mastery ? :s
    Last edited by santa666; 2012-11-26 at 10:47 AM.

  10. #10
    High Overlord Jayroyma's Avatar
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    I got 7,51% hit and 13,13% Exp in ail 477 (but using 7 stam gems atm which I will change to get higher exp)

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    No idea how you struggle to reach 7,5/7,5 in 480 gear :s
    I didn't say I struggle to get 7.5% / 7.5%. I said there is nowhere near enough stats in my 480 gear to get 7.5% / 15%. Pretty much every piece of gear I have is reforged, and think I even have enchants and a couple of gems to that effect. Then again I don't pick DPS (Lessons of the Darkmaster) trinkets for my selection, nor do I have pieces with a lot of innate expertise in them, which further lowers the expertise ceiling I can reach.
    Last edited by Dannyl; 2012-11-26 at 11:23 AM.

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  12. #12
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    I could just change to the mastery trinket, i would lack ~500 expertise, thats a gem and some reforging, i just enjoy the extra dps since lfr doesnt matter.
    Ye, my gear is overflowing with exp/hit, almost hard to get away from

    Still curious when/why crit rating overtook parry/mastery ? :s
    Any1 have a link/source ?

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Still curious when/why crit rating overtook parry/mastery ? :s
    Any1 have a link/source ?
    It didn't, not to my knowledge. Last I was aware, crit provides such a minuscule dps increase to prot that it isn't even worth mentioning.

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark Child View Post
    Pretty much every tank is going full expertise and hit to cap, followed by haste, mastery or crit and completely ignoring dodge/parry right now.
    Warrior is crit/mastery
    Ok, i was going by this post, struck me as odd, just wanted to be sure

    Sbar build is hit/exp->stamina->parry->mastery ?
    Sblock is hit/exp->mastery->parry->stamina ?

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Ok, i was going by this post, struck me as odd, just wanted to be sure

    Sbar build is hit/exp->stamina->parry->mastery ?
    Sblock is hit/exp->mastery->parry->stamina ?
    It's not odd, just incorrect

    I don't know about different builds for shield barrier / -block. I generally don't collect multiple sets of gear, nor regem and -forge between fights. Whether you go with mastery or stamina after hit & exp is largely a personal preference. There have been several threads arguing this very point, which is better, as there was back in Cata, and to this day there isn't a good, unified resolution.

    I tend to favor stamina over mastery, simply because a) at low gear levels, you cannot get a high mastery, and b) because with hit and exp caps I can maintain a high shield block up time regardless of mastery. So blocking attacks is not as much tied to mastery as it was in cata. Having the extra stamina however, gives me a good buffer for the fights where I want to emphasize shield barrier.
    Last edited by Dannyl; 2012-11-26 at 12:26 PM.

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  16. #16
    To be fair, warriors seem to be the most preferential of the tanks right now in terms of priority.. for myself i wont sacrifice my mastery below 50%, but i can reach hit cap and the dodge cap, keep in mind thats raid buffed. Once my ilvl starts to climb im sure ill get more expertise, but my healers have said they prefer me with the mastery vs pursuing a parry cap right now, that may change but for right now that is what works for me and my raid healers.

    Ilvl and stat budget do play a significant role in the flexiability you have for forging and gemming/enchanting. So YMMV but it is largely by feel right now if your in normal mode progression thus far..

  17. #17
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Crit is going to be your most potent DPS stat after Hit / Expertise Cap, haste is next to worthless
    It helped me get alot of rank 1's in DS and its pretty much the same now, Crit is a very potent DPS stat

    However for MT after hit / expertise hardcap you want to go into mastery ; )

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyl View Post
    It is also, largely a matter of gear. It's easy to say that if you get any expertise, you should get the top 15% but it isn't that simple. I am in 480 level right now and even reforging everything, I can barely reach 7.5% hit / 7.5% expertise. Granted, I could still upgrade a few pieces but without sacrificing hit, it is pretty darn difficult to reach 15% (5100 rating) on expertise, at least outside heroic raiding gear.

    And in the end, you have to wonder if it's even necessary. With 7.5% in both hit and expertise, it's rare for me to have difficulties in getting the rage for shield blocks (with plenty left over), which is the primary reason to get those stats. Anything beyond that is more just a dps boost. So to answer your question, no, I don't think it's necessary to go 15% on expertise. 7.5% is fine for immediate purpose, unless you are doing the hardest content in the game.
    cheers for the clear answer =D

  19. #19
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    In terms of the hardest content though, I would suggest capping expertise to hard cap for most fights

  20. #20
    I've reforged 7.5 hit / 7.5 exp then hybrid stam/mastery gems. Works really well for me.

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