Thread: Combustion Help

  1. #1

    Combustion Help

    This time posting here soo yeah... Lets not burn me at the stakes :P

    but anyways, I've been reading people getting high combustion ticks (I think I read 20-40K?) but I've been getting the high 10s and if lucky maybe mid 20s. Nothing close to 30K. I have no clue what I'm doing wrong. I tried doing the whole AT, PoM, Pyro thing and it didn't help "tons".

    Am I just missing something here?

    I can't post links right now but it's hypothermix from Gorgonnash in the US realms.

  2. #2
    First of all let me say that people usually talk about 2 different things when discussing their combustions/ignites. A lot of people talk about their actual ignite values and others the predicted value of combustion ticks from combustionhelper. You seem to talk about the latter. Are you using combustion helper to track predictions or just checking logs for the actual ticks? if that is the case it could be a matter of not using combustion when you have the highest ignite but instead using it after your pom+at chain. Remember that if the first pyro crit by the end of your pom+at combo that value would have expired. If the first pyro crit try to use combustion after your 4th pyro.

    Are we talking raid environment ? raid dummies? 5mans ? If talking dummies/5man then its what to be expected.

    If we are talking raid environment then i guess your are on the low side of things, but with only 23% buffed crit i imagine it is hard for you to get 2crits into your ignite for combustion, that combined with your somewhat low spell power makes it plausible for me to think this could be the reason, even though you have a shit ton of mastery witch in theory should improve your ignite values(but not recommended).

    Also make sure invocation is always active when building ignite, and try and align it with procs(though you only have 1 proc from dmc trinket)/pots etc. I also notice you have herbalism, you should consider getting Engineering or tailoring for some additional procs as those Int boost's really improve ignite when they proc/is used. And dont be afraid to roll on the Light of Cosmos trinket from Elegon, it is miles better than the pureblossom trinket.

    For reference when i was in 463/craft able Pre-raid BiS gear i had predicted combustion ticks around the mid 20's and sometimes low 30's. With my gear now i normally get within mid 30's-mid 40's, on fights with no boost mechanics (like stoneguard heroic/elegon etc etc)
    Last edited by stX3; 2012-11-19 at 11:51 AM.

  3. #3
    yeah it is from combustion helper. I just reforged a bit and such and got to 24.99% crit. While trying it on the training dummy (the raid one) I only was able to reach 17K. I'm not too sure why but at least it was some improvement I guess...

    I think that is kinda the depressing point for me, when you were 463/pre raid you were already able to have predicted higher combustion ticks than what I can currently do. Dunno what to really do about it right now. I'm trying to level tailoring and hope that will help a little.

  4. #4
    same problem here.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tentou View Post
    yeah it is from combustion helper. I just reforged a bit and such and got to 24.99% crit. While trying it on the training dummy (the raid one) I only was able to reach 17K. I'm not too sure why but at least it was some improvement I guess...

    I think that is kinda the depressing point for me, when you were 463/pre raid you were already able to have predicted higher combustion ticks than what I can currently do. Dunno what to really do about it right now. I'm trying to level tailoring and hope that will help a little.
    As i said "Are we talking raid environment ? raid dummies? 5mans ? If talking dummies/5man then its what to be expected."

    17k on a dummie is okay considering your gear. In raids you will have buffs pots etc and you will see a drastic change in the combustion damage...

  6. #6
    Well, for starters, do you keep up your mage bomb? No LB (or NT or FB), is no Pyromaniac = 10% loss.

    But that is not the key to bigger Ignites ofcourse. When your combustions comes available, you want to chain crits. Now, this is all RNG, but there is a way to start of with a bigger ignite. First you want a Pyroblast up, even if that means hardcasting, The idea is to save Inferno Blast for the 4th crit in a row. This means, you want to track your lightweave, trinket/weapon procs and save your synapse springs for this moment. Basicly, you want fireball to crit twice, a pyro crit, inferno blast, hotstreak. This combo should give you a very decent ignite.

    The thing is, you can be very lucky with crits, or very unfortunate. Even with all procs up, you can end up with 0 crits. So, more importantly, set your own bar of minimum ignite for a combustion+time given for combustion to be off cd. For example, my bar is at 25k in raids, and in normal circumstances, I give myself 20 seconds to get a bigger ignite the 25k, if I fail critting, I will go for a lower ignite after 20 secs. 25k is the minimum though, and not that hard to reach with a few crits.

    There is probably some math behind what is best, but setting my own bars works out fine. Using combustion right of cooldown is only worth it when you have a big ignite rolling. Using combust on low ignites is a huge dps loss.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nohara View Post
    Well, for starters, do you keep up your mage bomb? No LB (or NT or FB), is no Pyromaniac = 10% loss.

    But that is not the key to bigger Ignites ofcourse. When your combustions comes available, you want to chain crits. Now, this is all RNG, but there is a way to start of with a bigger ignite. First you want a Pyroblast up, even if that means hardcasting, The idea is to save Inferno Blast for the 4th crit in a row. This means, you want to track your lightweave, trinket/weapon procs and save your synapse springs for this moment. Basicly, you want fireball to crit twice, a pyro crit, inferno blast, hotstreak. This combo should give you a very decent ignite.

    The thing is, you can be very lucky with crits, or very unfortunate. Even with all procs up, you can end up with 0 crits. So, more importantly, set your own bar of minimum ignite for a combustion+time given for combustion to be off cd. For example, my bar is at 25k in raids, and in normal circumstances, I give myself 20 seconds to get a bigger ignite the 25k, if I fail critting, I will go for a lower ignite after 20 secs. 25k is the minimum though, and not that hard to reach with a few crits.

    There is probably some math behind what is best, but setting my own bars works out fine. Using combustion right of cooldown is only worth it when you have a big ignite rolling. Using combust on low ignites is a huge dps loss.
    disregard this mans post please. there are several forum topics about building big ignites/combustions, this is not one of them. Using IB after two pyro's significantly lowers your ignite pool. And as i said in my first post this is a classic example of people confusing the actual ignite with the prediction combustion helper shows you, i can tell you that a 17k combust prediction from combustion helper is a higher ignite than 25k!..

    you should also remember to have HS+HU when using AT and then proceed to do a FB->!pyro for a high chance of getting another HS. This have been discussed at lengths in the fire mage guide it starts around page 9/10 and continues for a few pages, as there is many pro's and cons to using this rotation depending if combustion is or is not on CD.
    I will post this here without explanation as there is already many pages of discussing this, read up on that.

    1. Spam fireball till HU->proc HS with IB.
    2. Continue to spam fireball till you get HU
    You now have HS+HU
    3. You already have a fireball in cast. follow up with !pyro
    4. Fireball
    If only one of the two(FB/!pyro) crits you gain HS: Go to step two.
    If Both FB and !pyro crits you gain HS+HU: Go to step three.

    There is a lot of really good information already on this board so i wont go into to much detail as you should search this very forum your self, just please disregard nohara's comment.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by stX3 View Post
    Remember that if the first pyro crit by the end of your pom+at combo that value would have expired. If the first pyro crit try to use combustion after your 3rd pyro.
    Why would the 1st crit have rolled off? Thought it wouldnt roll of till 6 sec had passed since the crit?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Faladrath View Post
    Why would the 1st crit have rolled off? Thought it wouldnt roll of till 6 sec had passed since the crit?
    6s are correct and i should properly have said the 4th pyro. gonna edit that. Though most of it will have rolled off by the 4th.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by stX3 View Post
    6s are correct and i should properly have said the 4th pyro. gonna edit that. Though most of it will have rolled off by the 4th.
    But does that matter for the combustion(if it's almost rolled off I mean)?As in if it's 0,1 left of the 1st crit, it will still count as good as if it had 6sec left as you combust or?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by stX3 View Post
    disregard this mans post please. there are several forum topics about building big ignites/combustions, this is not one of them. Using IB after two pyro's significantly lowers your ignite pool. And as i said in my first post this is a classic example of people confusing the actual ignite with the prediction combustion helper shows you, i can tell you that a 17k combust prediction from combustion helper is a higher ignite than 25k!..

    you should also remember to have HS+HU when using AT and then proceed to do a FB->!pyro for a high chance of getting another HS. This have been discussed at lengths in the fire mage guide it starts around page 9/10 and continues for a few pages, as there is many pro's and cons to using this rotation depending if combustion is or is not on CD.
    I will post this here without explanation as there is already many pages of discussing this, read up on that.

    1. Spam fireball till HU->proc HS with IB.
    2. Continue to spam fireball till you get HU
    You now have HS+HU
    3. You already have a fireball in cast. follow up with !pyro
    4. Fireball
    If only one of the two(FB/!pyro) crits you gain HS: Go to step two.
    If Both FB and !pyro crits you gain HS+HU: Go to step three.

    There is a lot of really good information already on this board so i wont go into to much detail as you should search this very forum your self, just please disregard nohara's comment.

    I see I made some very bad formulating and mistakes, by editing. Forget the the post, and let me break it down. 2 times FB crit is correct. The pyro crit is the Hotstreak you need to keep up, then I cast the infernoblast, and then I cast the HS's !PB in combination with a fireball (or well, the other way around.)

    Basicly, we saying almost exactly the same. The only difference is that I use my inferno blast to get HS+HU, instead for fireball for HS+HU . The reason I do that before a combustion, is that I do not have to be affraid of not critting when HS is up, I have a change of chaining lots of crits, and so building a bigger ignite. Basicly, it looks like this. FB>FB>IB>FB+!PB>lucky !PB. My way is perhaps a bit riskier.

    This is only my rotation before a combustion. Perhaps a gamble, but if it doesnt fail, I get huge ignites. 4-5-6 crits in a row = win. The difference with your way is that you arent chaining crits if the the first Fireball after IB isnt a crit.

  12. #12
    Yes it matters, see my (overly) detailed post here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...stion-question

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