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  1. #21
    Dreadlord Vexies's Avatar
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    The game will never die. Its population will fluctuate, as expected, swelling and waning before and after the release of new content. This is intended and expected. The very nature of it being free to play will guarantee that. People will dislike this or that as they always do. The gear thing is a major shift. One I could care less about but I recognize its impact on those who do.

    I do however question just how many are in this group. I saw more people in game than ever, even during release this weekend. A portion will wane away and would anyway its natural but the game is far from bleeding beyond the norm. Some are upset for sure, some will leave over it but I think in large part it is a extreme over reaction. They could never again add another "supposed Tier" and they may its way to early to know.

    However If I had to guess, I would place my money on a far, far large audience of people that could give two shits about this change and just as many that actually welcome it.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexies View Post
    ...even during release this weekend.
    Which was also the first free trial weekend and an event weekend...

    They have also already lost big chunks of population in the game (sPvP has lost a lot of people and their e-sport dream looks a million miles away, WvW participation has been declining & has lost another a chunk with this change as people that primarliy WvW are most effected by ascended gear, it has also helped multiple guilds make the decision to move to PS2 tomorrow), which is no doubt a contributing factor to Anet's decision to go back on their design philosophy and chase WoW hamsters like so many failed WoW 2.0 clones.
    Last edited by zurgs; 2012-11-19 at 03:12 PM.

  3. #23
    I loved every content patch in WoW regardless of the xpac, and it never pretended not to be a gear treadmill. GW2, on other hand ruined itself with just one.

    I can even look past the stupid obsession with one-time events and the even dumber decision of rewarding precursors with it, provided there wasn't another higher stat grind with Ascended/FoTM. The "higher stats or nothing" MMO mentality will never die; once you start rewarding that part of the brain people will keep doing FOTM FOTM FOTM to exclusion of everything else no matter how unfun it gets which is what I detest.

    Count me in with the "better off without patch" crowd. We didn't asked for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJekyll View Post
    Wintersday will probably have the same concept as Halloween. Black Lion Chests awarding skins at 0.01% chance. Outcry on forums. Buff on droprate to 1%. Disclaimer: I enjoyed Halloween, just didn't bother with the chests.
    Their current revenue model is retarded. Can you imagine WoW tried selling chests with small and unspecified chance for a mount instead of just offering $25 for a guaranteed one and come close to making the same money?

    Even then, they are shooting their own current revenue model in the foot with Ascended crap.
    Last edited by freeforumuser; 2012-11-19 at 03:19 PM.

  4. #24
    Dreadlord Vexies's Avatar
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    Even then, they are shooting their own current revenue model in the foot with Ascended crap.
    How do you figure? Like it or not there is a far larger crowd that actually enjoys gear treadmill. Now I enjoy the game because I enjoy the game. I bought it because it was superior to the sub based games I was playing at the time it was released and not because of some BS PR fluff that I recognized from a mile away. Some have turned that in to some kind of church of Anet but I saw it for what it truly was.

    In the end the ONLY thing that mattered / matters is that I bought a superior product that provides content at a superior pace that I find extremely enjoyable and does it for free. That hasnt changed and I think for a lot of the people they feel the same. Hands down GW2 is a extremely fun, quality product with crazy amounts of content for 60 and keeps giving. NO PRODUCT out right now can match that period.

    Gear treadmill, no gear treadmill blah blah, who cares lol. At the end of the day you have a superior MMO experience that you dont have to play a monthly for. Yes Please.

    Whats more amusing is the people that do leave over this and go back to WoW.. which by all accounts is the worst of the worst gear treadmill games. You cant do a damn thing with out the latest and greatest gear. All content is gated behind gear requirments AND you PAY For that each month.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexies View Post
    How do you figure? Like it or not there is a far larger crowd that actually enjoys gear treadmill. Now I enjoy the game because I enjoy the game. I bought it because it was superior to the sub based games I was playing at the time it was released and not because of some BS PR fluff that I recognized from a mile away. Some have turned that in to some kind of church of Anet but I saw it for what it truly was.

    In the end the ONLY thing that mattered / matters is that I bought a superior product that provides content at a superior pace that I find extremely enjoyable and does it for free. That hasnt changed and I think for a lot of the people they feel the same. Hands down GW2 is a extremely fun, quality product with crazy amounts of content for 60 and keeps giving. NO PRODUCT out right now can match that period.

    Gear treadmill, no gear treadmill blah blah, who cares lol. At the end of the day you have a superior MMO experience that you dont have to play a monthly for. Yes Please.

    Whats more amusing is the people that do leave over this and go back to WoW.. which by all accounts is the worst of the worst gear treadmill games. You cant do a damn thing with out the latest and greatest gear. All content is gated behind gear requirments AND you PAY For that each month.
    I find your defense of Anet funny because people are willing to pay $15/mth for a superior bug-free experience, especially if they like grinding for vertical progression.

    Me? I don't even play WoW, but just because it did some things right doesn't justify GW2 to keep failing at it.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by freeforumuser View Post
    just because WoW it did some things right doesn't justify GW2 to keep failing at it.
    some may see what AN does as 'different' in a good way.
    But I`m not one of them(on this subject at least).

  7. #27
    I just started playing GW2 this weekend as I finally broke down and bought it. I'm really enjoying it so far. I'm enjoying the story so far and am in no rush to get all the best gear. I probably won't even raid and will just level alts since that is my thing anyway. I can't see myself quitting anytime soon.

  8. #28
    Dreadlord Vexies's Avatar
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    Me? I don't even play WoW, but just because it did some things right doesn't justify GW2 to keep failing at it.
    I never said x game did anything worse. I played WoW for 6 years but for me GW2 provides a supperior in most areas / on par in others product for FREE. So why in the hell would I pay for it and that was my reason to buy it. Others drunk the cool aid and are now mad. In the end the game plays well and is entertaining or it doesn't. Philosophy doesnt even have a place. Its not a religion its a game. Does it provide me with an appropriate amount of entertainment for the amount I spent on it? yes? fantastic. Thats all that matters.

    However I am curious what you feel GW2 supposedly failed at. Blizz does a great job and provides a great product but after GW2 I will never pay a sub fee again and to me anyone who does it simply throwing money away.

    None of the company said this and now believes that changes the quality product installed on my computer. Nor does it change the fact that I have received TWO content updates in TWO months and a extremely fun game for 60$ and no sub fee. NO OTHER GAME out today can offer that kind of value period.

  9. #29
    In the end the ONLY thing that mattered / matters is that I bought a superior product that provides content at a superior pace that I find extremely enjoyable and does it for free. That hasnt changed and I think for a lot of the people they feel the same. Hands down GW2 is a extremely fun, quality product with crazy amounts of content for 60 and keeps giving. NO PRODUCT out right now can match that period.
    I never know what to think...one thread people will say that if you're bored you "went too fast" and the game doesn't have enough content to support you. In another thread people will rave about how much content there is.

    Me? I wish I knew where all this "content" is that I hear people like you raving about. I mean, there's "stuff" around, but unless I turn into a compulsory completionist, very little of it is actual content that I want to sit down and do. Now, I'm not going to say that no one likes it, because that's obviously untrue. But I just don't see where all this content is.

    I'm sure this is where someone will chime in with a list of such things as "map completion" and "grinding for legendary"...which are about as good excuses for "content" as entering your password at the login screen.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I never know what to think...one thread people will say that if you're bored you "went too fast" and the game doesn't have enough content to support you. In another thread people will rave about how much content there is.

    Me? I wish I knew where all this "content" is that I hear people like you raving about. I mean, there's "stuff" around, but unless I turn into a compulsory completionist, very little of it is actual content that I want to sit down and do. Now, I'm not going to say that no one likes it, because that's obviously untrue. But I just don't see where all this content is.

    I'm sure this is where someone will chime in with a list of such things as "map completion" and "grinding for legendary"...which are about as good excuses for "content" as entering your password at the login screen.
    Honestly with the amount of complains you have I wonder why you bother launching the game at all, not only you but many players it seems which have started a kind of witch hunt against Arenanet.

    Some points agree with you like the ascended gear thing (you.should.never.break.your.own.promises Arenanet). That said i have no idea why guys still play when you have so many issues with gw2. I stopped playing the main stream MMO after having 1 trillion issues with it and I dont go and spam its main forum because I dont like X in the game.

  11. #31
    Dreadlord Vexies's Avatar
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    Me? I wish I knew where all this "content" is that I hear people like you raving about. I mean, there's "stuff" around, but unless I turn into a compulsory completionist, very little of it is actual content that I want to sit down and do. Now, I'm not going to say that no one likes it, because that's obviously untrue. But I just don't see where all this content is.

    I'm sure this is where someone will chime in with a list of such things as "map completion" and "grinding for legendary"...which are about as good excuses for "content" as entering your password at the login screen.
    Well obviously your millage on content will vary. Personally I am one of those that do find jumping puzzles, exploration, doing quests for the sake of doing them, world completion and the like fun and enjoyable content. After years of hardcore raiding its been a blast to simply stop, smell the roses and play a game simply because I enjoy playing it.

    I do understand those that are motivated by the NEXT big thing and vertical progression but its not required by me anymore and neither am I fussed about Anet adding the the faintest hints of this (and it is a ridiculousness pale version of a treadmill) to their games. Even with more stats on this new gear it is few and far between, added slowly and NOT required to do a damn thing. The only segment of this game with ANY reason to bitch is the WVWVW people and they already said that they will ad ways to get it by doing that as well.

  12. #32
    Yeah, see...things like "map completion" being passed off as content just annoys the hell out of me. It makes me wonder how long people will accept, "Hey, we threw some darts at the map, go to the places where the darts landed." as actual content. =(

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Me? I wish I knew where all this "content" is that I hear people like you raving about. I mean, there's "stuff" around, but unless I turn into a compulsory completionist, very little of it is actual content that I want to sit down and do. Now, I'm not going to say that no one likes it, because that's obviously untrue. But I just don't see where all this content is.

    I'm sure this is where someone will chime in with a list of such things as "map completion" and "grinding for legendary"...which are about as good excuses for "content" as entering your password at the login screen.
    As opposed to doing daily quests day in and day out, and running the same set of dungeons to reach a weekly currency cap? Or grinding for skirmish marks and leveling legacies on weapons? Or grinding out skill points doing the same set of stuff to add power to a character in a game with a lower level cap, mixed in with running instances for badges for gear? - WoW, Lotro, and DCUO, respectively...

    Grinding for a legendary is no different than those types of grinds. Repetitious grind not really content? There's probably an argument for that, but then you'd have to stop calling most end-game activities in most MMOs content.

    As for map completion? Perhaps it's not content in the sense that it's something that is a result of completing content, but it does require doing all of the Hearts in the game as part of the requirement...and if those aren't content, then nothing in any MMO is content.

    Of course, I think you're very much aware of this, and either confusing what you want to do or don't want to do as valid parameters for defining what is and isn't content (I'm generally not interested in watching romantic comedies, but that doesn't mean they aren't movies), or intentionally being obtuse for the sake of baiting trolls.

  14. #34
    Of course, I think you're very much aware of this, and either confusing what you want to do or don't want to do as valid parameters for defining what is and isn't content (I'm generally not interested in watching romantic comedies, but that doesn't mean they aren't movies), or intentionally being obtuse for the sake of baiting trolls.
    not only you but many players it seems which have started a kind of witch hunt against Arenanet.
    Same old stuff that's been chanted since beta. Everyone is a troll, or a plant from another game here to "sabotage" polls, or being obtuse, or....

    The only difference from then and now is that there's a lot less of you types. =)

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Same old stuff that's been chanted since beta. Everyone is a troll, or a plant from another game here to "sabotage" polls, or being obtuse, or....

    The only difference from then and now is that there's a lot less of you types. =)
    Or confused, and projecting their own parameters to define things in ways that support their own argument, where those parameters aren't necessarily subjective - such as saying Map Completion isn't content, but ignoring that it requires doing all the static "quests" in every zone, and then going on to say that it's not content because it's not something you want to do.

    I've seen you put forth some good arguments against things Anet has done - this isn't one of them.

  16. #36
    Or confused, and projecting their own parameters to define things in ways that support their own argument, where those parameters aren't necessarily subjective - such as saying Map Completion isn't content, but ignoring that it requires doing all the static "quests" in every zone, and then going on to say that it's not content because it's not something you want to do.

    I've seen you put forth some good arguments against things Anet has done - this isn't one of them.
    Hearts are ok, I actually don't mind them. I do think they need a little more challenge and variety, but that's beside the point. They still don't make up very much of the actual "map completion", though...and for some reason the concept is abandoned altogether once you hit the higher level zones.

    But the rest of it, just running from Waypoint to Point of Interest to Vista to Waypoint, rinse and repeat...I just see that as an awful excuse for content. Not because it's awful in and of itself, but because it's actually presented and treated as an important chunk of the content. You mentioned "farming valor points" earlier, and you're right, but at the same time I don't think anyone actually points at the farm and says, "Look, it's content!" or puts "Farming valor points" in a bullet-list of content.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Yeah, see...things like "map completion" being passed off as content just annoys the hell out of me. It makes me wonder how long people will accept, "Hey, we threw some darts at the map, go to the places where the darts landed." as actual content. =(
    Let me turn that around. What would you define as "actual content"?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Same old stuff that's been chanted since beta. Everyone is a troll, or a plant from another game here to "sabotage" polls, or being obtuse, or....

    The only difference from then and now is that there's a lot less of you types. =)
    My types? what types exactly? I dont praise everything Arena Net and criticise it when its due, but some posters especially in here repeat the same things ad nauseum which makes me wonder why the heck they even launch the game at all since they have issues from events to dungeons.

  19. #39
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    I still play once or twice a week, but after finally experiencing dungeons, it's basically killed my interest in the game. The special events really have nothing to do with it, but they certainly aren't helping because I barely get to experience them, what with them happening like, once, for an hour, while I'm at work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  20. #40
    Let me turn that around. What would you define as "actual content"?
    I'm going to blatantly dodge that question (it's probably a trap anyway, you know how these things go) and say that I suppose there's a scale of content and different players fall in different places on that scale.

    Some people love the "map completion" thing, and would probably still love it even if there were no hearts or even vistas, just a collection of Points of Interest to bounce around from. Other people like myself would rather pass on just walking around and instead have some challenge or more depth of interaction or something.

    However, even though that wishy-washy defintion of content is true, there's still the objective definitions of development and volume/depth of content, etc etc. Frankly I don't think anyone could sit down and look at "Map Completion" and seriously say that it's in the same league of (depth/quality/volume/whatever) of content as dungeon/raid/pvp/etc offerings that you'd expect from games.

    And again, there's nothing WRONG with map completion on it's own. It's the fact that it is frequently offered up as a major and important element of the content that's objectionable to me.

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