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  1. #101
    I don't think it ever stopped after patch notes. Ppl hate new gear system. Ppl quit. I know I got nothing to do so I just farm orr for now, restoring my gear after being recently hacked. But I'll quit as soon as Far Cry-3 is out. I won't tolerate this bullshit. GW2 was the only game that did it right gear-wise. Everyone's equal, no rewards for nolifers or hardcores. And they had to fuck it all up. Well, gee, ok fine. I'm a pc player and I've been keeping away from xbox for all this time and now I'm looking at it and seeing a friggin' year of fun waiting for me. If not for just this move with gear anet woulda had more of my money, this way microsoft will. If it's what they want -- fine. I'm sure population will drop down alot now and will continue dropping until they get rid of gear progress bullshit.
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  2. #102
    Herald of the Titans Ravenblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airsoul View Post
    For me the idea of getting progressively more powerful is great. I love it in all games, suppose i will continue to enjoy my hero getting stronger and stronger, saving the world!!! etc etc.
    But there are many other games who are providing that already. Why does it have GW2 of all games to provide you with that?

    If they want a gear treadmill then let your character remain more powerful. Dont scale up, down, up and down. Surely it cant go both ways?
    Yes, you can. /points at RIFT.
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  3. #103
    Rift doesn't scale you to the content does it?

  4. #104
    Herald of the Titans Ravenblade's Avatar
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    They have a system named Mentoring in place which is basically the same as in GW2's dynamic level adjustment except in only works downwards.

    I don't see the issue though. With the exception of sPVP:
    A level 1 scaled up to 80 will be significantly weaker than a real level 80 character.
    A 80 scaled down to 1 will be significantly stronger than a real level 1 character.

    So yes, a lvl 80 in Exotics scaled down to 5 will already stomp over bears and centaurs.
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  5. #105
    Ah yeah forgot about the mentoring although that isn't quite as automatic as it is in GW2.

    But yeah, even scaled down a higher level character will still wipe the floor with the area that they are scaled to.

  6. #106
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenblade View Post
    They have a system named Mentoring in place which is basically the same as in GW2's dynamic level adjustment except in only works downwards.

    I don't see the issue though. With the exception of sPVP:
    A level 1 scaled up to 80 will be significantly weaker than a real level 80 character.
    A 80 scaled down to 1 will be significantly stronger than a real level 1 character.

    So yes, a lvl 80 in Exotics scaled down to 5 will already stomp over bears and centaurs.
    Champions Online has the same system, and yes, without the skill points, traits or whatever else you normally get through leveling, your character is sgnificantly weaker at max level than a character who got there normally.

    And yes, even if we scale down gear to the bare minimum, and reduce every stat to 1, having gear with three different 1 values is still better than gear with 1 value at 1.
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenblade View Post
    But there are many other games who are providing that already. Why does it have GW2 of all games to provide you with that?



    Yes, you can. /points at RIFT.

    I think i failed to explain myself properly. I wasn't comparing games, looking for a new game or suggesting that GW2 has something unique.

    In my opinion they are looking at two completely different design philosophies. Content scaling with you, whether that is up or down is one design. Perpetual gear replacement to be able to take on harder challenges is another.

    my 2 cents anyway.

  8. #108
    Fluffy Kitten Azuri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Ah yeah forgot about the mentoring although that isn't quite as automatic as it is in GW2.

    But yeah, even scaled down a higher level character will still wipe the floor with the area that they are scaled to.
    Actually I think it's far more advanced system. The user controls if they want to level up or down. It scales your XP and rewards down so if your actual level is 50 and you got to a level 15 zone to level with a friend you get rewarded based on lvl 50. If you want to just go to a low level and tear it up then don't change your level to do it. I'm not a fan of restrictions or taking away options from the player.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azuri View Post
    Actually I think it's far more advanced system. The user controls if they want to level up or down. It scales your XP and rewards down so if your actual level is 50 and you got to a level 15 zone to level with a friend you get rewarded based on lvl 50. If you want to just go to a low level and tear it up then don't change your level to do it. I'm not a fan of restrictions or taking away options from the player.
    The problem with doing that in GW2 is that a high-level player could do a lot of griefing in low-level dynamic events. This isn't a problem (or as much of a problem) in Rift, where leveling is still primarily built around questing and where dynamic events are not a major source of XP needed for leveling.

  10. #110
    Fluffy Kitten Azuri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvanie View Post
    The problem with doing that in GW2 is that a high-level player could do a lot of griefing in low-level dynamic events. This isn't a problem (or as much of a problem) in Rift, where leveling is still primarily built around questing and where dynamic events are not a major source of XP needed for leveling.
    It was actually a problem but the fix to prevent high level griefing low lvl dynamic events was to give no rewards if you didn't level down.

    I understand both systems are somewhat unique but if I want to stay at max level for example to smash mobs efficiently to farm lower level mats I'm not forced to do this content at low level. At that point I say screw it I'm not doing low level content that really has no interest to me anymore. Just a personal preference and better design that should be introduced imo.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azuri View Post
    It was actually a problem but the fix to prevent high level griefing low lvl dynamic events was to give no rewards if you didn't level down.
    That wouldn't stop a serious griefer (i.e., someone who is just out to ruin other people's fun) from annihilating low-level events in GW2 and thus denying low-level players XP they need to level. This is much less of a concern in Rift because rifts and zone events are an entirely optional part of the leveling process (to the extent that they are considered an annoyance by some players while leveling); zone events are also harder to grief by an individual because they're scattered across a zone.

    I understand both systems are somewhat unique but if I want to stay at max level for example to smash mobs efficiently to farm lower level mats I'm not forced to do this content at low level. At that point I say screw it I'm not doing low level content that really has no interest to me anymore. Just a personal preference and better design that should be introduced imo.
    I'm not sure how something can be both personal preference and (objectively) better design?

    (For what it's worth, I don't disagree that there should be better reasons for high-level players to visit low- and mid-level zones, but that's a totally different issue.)

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Noselacri View Post
    This game has by far the least content of any MMORPG I've ever played, including classic Everquest. There's just so little substance to GW2.

    1) Some leveling zones, generally with two or maybe three areas for each level bracket. Totals something like 25 zones, all of them square and some of them rather small.

    2) Eight dungeons at launch, nine now with the new one which they'll keep adding to as a means of extending the endgame.

    3) One WvW map where the placenames are altered a little from game to game, five mostly similar sPvP maps.

    4) A non-repeatable and extremely underwhelming personal storyline.

    And that's it. That is the extent of GW2's content. Some will try to argue that achievements or collectibles are content, but come on.

    I have never heard of an MMORPG of noteworthy production/publishing that had so little content. It's equivalent to one of vanilla WoW's two continents, minus the raid content and half of the dungeons. GW2 effectively has no quests, certainly has no content for guilds to do as guilds, and almost everything you can accomplish is just an enormous, unimaginative grind for ridiculous amounts of crafting materials, tokens or karma. It is possible to compliment some of the game's features, I still do so myself despite having quit the game in disappointment, but there can be no disputing the fact that GW2 has so little content that its longevity is highly questionable.

    LoL talk about biased opinion.

    1)zones are way to big and that is a good thing and yeah square is like every zone is the same...expect its not,but then again lets not talk about the puzzles and mini dungeons.And the fact that 1/3 of the zone is hidden and you need to find(its not on achievements and its for explorers mostly)

    2)8+1 dungeons 8 dungeons with 3 + 1 ways to do them which even thought aren't completely different are different enough to count which give you 32 dungeon paths if you dont count the story mode because you will be doing it either way then 24 dungeon paths.The last fractals is 9 mini dungeons that each time you go form a dungeon with 3 of them.Even if you take all 9 mini and put them to actual dungeon size you have 3 normal sized dungeons.

    3)WvWvW is a 3 server wide fight with ladder system and territorial control the sPvP is PvP withou the need of gear

    4)that non repeatable story is actually different for each race and 3 variations of it depending on what you make your character be.Plus 3 more small variations depending on what NPC faction you will choose

    tell me please what game in post 2005 launched with more?Also tell me please a game in its 3rd month that had more content also tell me please what game had something different than what you bash the game "certainly has no content for guilds to do as guilds, and almost everything you can accomplish is just an enormous, unimaginative grind for ridiculous amounts of crafting materials, tokens or (karma=unique token system change with other unique token system)"

    please tell me the ultimate goal that you had in the other MMOs because you seem as a knowledgeable player since you mention classic everquest.

  13. #113
    Fluffy Kitten Azuri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvanie View Post
    That wouldn't stop a serious griefer (i.e., someone who is just out to ruin other people's fun) from annihilating low-level events in GW2 and thus denying low-level players XP they need to level.
    Yeah I used griefing out of context. I guess it could happen since d-bags do and will play games the sad fact is that people would go back to a low level to grief in the first place. Anyways kind of irrelevant but the gist of my post was I don't like being forced to a lower level by design. If that doesn't work in the GW2 design I won't lose sleep over it.
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  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Azuri View Post
    Yeah I used griefing out of context. I guess it could happen since d-bags do and will play games the sad fact is that people would go back to a low level to grief in the first place. Anyways kind of irrelevant but the gist of my post was I don't like being forced to a lower level by design. If that doesn't work in the GW2 design I won't lose sleep over it.
    Indeed. I wouldn't say it is a more advanced system but player controlled down leveling is a more malleable system.

    Even with auto scaling it is possible for players to be too tough relative to an area in GW2. However, because the scaling is... well, automatic; players who find the challenge level inappropriate are essentially stuck with the auto adjusted level. Which to get around requires obtuse methods like not wearing all gear or spending trait points. Conflicting goals and bad design by definition.

    It is possible to run into the same situation with player set mentoring as well. From EQ and City of Heroes to Rift. The obvious benefit is one can, at their choosing force the slider to a lower point than set by auto level systems. Which doesn't require breaking existing concepts and rules such as not equipping gear or using skills.

    The psychological boon is in favor of player set level scaling as well.

    or example, sometimes one might just want to gather without fighting 100 wily boars every 5 feet in level 1-15 zones. Auto leveling takes some of that ease of play away by comparisons to player set level scaling. This is not to confuse ease of play with easy, as they are not the same concept.

    Another aspect of design that drives this issue is rewarding higher level players for lower level content. We don't really have see that issue in World of Warcraft because their content is intended & designed to expire by level range. The tradeoff being less potentially relevant content for a higher level player but singularity of purpose and path. As it may be, natch.

    The problem of level scaling and relative content w/ meaningful impulse behind it is a design problem that really can't be solved. It's just inherent to giving players this type of option. Yet the more flexible of the two options is player controlled level scaling. Which often a more cohesive solution than auto set level scaling.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Indeed. I wouldn't say it is a more advanced system but player controlled down leveling is a more malleable system.

    Even with auto scaling it is possible for players to be too tough relative to an area in GW2. However, because the scaling is... well, automatic; players who find the challenge level inappropriate are essentially stuck with the auto adjusted level. Which to get around requires obtuse methods like not wearing all gear or spending trait points. Conflicting goals and bad design by definition.
    The solution for that would be to set at what level you want to play relative to the mob level in a given part of a zone. Manual level-adjustment for that (as in Rift) is tedious. City of Heroes got that right for their instanced content in that they either scaled the level of the mission up to yours or (for task forces) the other way round and allowed you to set mob level (relative to yours) and spawn size higher if you wanted more of a challenge; obviously, that only works for instanced content, but you could do the inverse -- setting player level relative to mob level for open world content.

    Except, of course, that my actual preferred solution would be to get rid of levels entirely, but I have my doubts that the market would support such an MMO.

  16. #116
    I suppose you are right on a technical level.

    Typing /mentorlevel 10 inside the chat box of Rift is technically more cumbersome than an automatic user defined variable.

    Aion has level scaling as well. Not sure why I needed to bring that up. I just really enjoy Aion.

    But also. Yea, totally! FUCK LEVELING.

    I hate character levels. Secret World got a lot "right" for me personally. If the game didn't run so poorly, it would be pretttttttty darn close to an ideal MMO for me.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I suppose you are right on a technical level.

    Typing /mentorlevel 10 inside the chat box of Rift is technically more cumbersome than an automatic user defined variable.
    What I'm meaning is that you have to keep changing it as you move around a zone and mob levels change. This is why I've been talking about setting player level relative to mob level rather than as an absolute number.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvanie View Post
    What I'm meaning is that you have to keep changing it as you move around a zone and mob levels change. This is why I've been talking about setting player level relative to mob level rather than as an absolute number.
    Yes, I got that.

    I just said: 'Typing /mentorlevel 10 inside the chat box of Rift is technically more cumbersome than an automatic user defined variable.' in agreement.

  19. #119
    Probably after Xmas.

    Once gear status starts to really influence gameplay, a lot of people will leave. Aion is considered an Asian grindfest, but there is less grinding involved in a set of Fenris than a set of Ascended.

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