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  1. #21
    If you don't want to go Blood, your best bet is probably stacking haste and Glyph of Dark Succor. Haste to poop out more death strikes when you can. Pet and Sac (Dark Pact) talent is helpful.... I don't know if Fallen Crusader stacks, but I imagine you'd still want to do this in UH presence for the haste.

    It really isn't geared for this because you want to do two different things - you want to ass blast/aoe lots of mobs, and you want to survive.

    You really should just bite the bullet and go Blood. The survivability will make up for the smaller numbers and it makes doing dailies SO much easier when you don't have to mount up, fly to a ledge, bandage and food, and then come back and find all your quest mobs dead.

  2. #22
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    I've never had THAT much trouble with leveling or dailies in frost presence. Take lichborne and Death Pact, and glyph of dark succor... You can start spamming howling blast into your enemies to weaken them all. Focus down one enemy with additional obliterates/frost strikes. Switch to a second one after the first one dies and smack it with a death strike. That's 20% of your health back. Kill the second one in the same way. Your howling blast spam will likely have gotten all additional enemies down low enough to where they can be dispatched with a death strike alone, healing you for 20%, automatically resetting the CD, and allowing you to smack the next one with another death strike, and so on. Lichborne and Death pact are additional safety nets.

    You could always go blood, but it seems to kill things unnecessarily slow.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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  3. #23
    If you absolutely don't want to go blood spec(you are invincible as blood, period, even in DPS gear), use Glyph of Dark Succor then focus on bursting 1 mob down at a time. Kill him, use the free Death Strike to get 20% of your health back(thanks to Dark Succor), burst down the next mob, and repeat. You won't be able to take on 12-15 mobs at once this way(and elites will give you a lot more issue) like you could with blood, but 5-6 is certainly doable. If you choose this route, I would go 2h frost, as it has a LOT of burst, so you can quickly down 1 mob, heal, quickly down the second, heal, etc. If something goes wrong and you pull too many mobs, pop Lichborne and toss a couple Death Coils at yourself, or pop your ghoul and sac it for a big heal. If enemies are using any sort of non-physical damage, don't forget you can interrupt it or pop AMS to also reduce incoming damage.

    If you keep this stuff in mind, you shouldn't have too much trouble, though you still won't be as incredibly unstoppable as blood would.

  4. #24
    First off you chose the absolute WORST leveling spec possible.

    Unholy simply SUCKS for leveling. period.

    You depend waaaay too much on the diseases to do any decent damage, depend on your pet being transformed, the damage has a ramp-up rather than be burst-based, the list just goes on and on. Don't get me wrong, I'm currently unholy, and I love how the spec performs at the endgame, but for leveling? its horrible.

    No, you need to level either as blood (The tank spec) which may as well be called IMMORTAL because unless you pull god himself from heaven, nothing will EVER kill you, or you need to level up as frost, specifically 2hander frost, because then, you'll kill stuff so fast they wont even know what hit them

    The Glyph of Dark Succor is a must, as it gives you a buff every time you kill an enemy that gives exp or honor, this buff makes your next death strike within the next 20 seconds be completely free, and instantly restore 20% of your HP. Frost has the proc Killer Machine, which makes your next Obliterate or Frost Strike a guaranteed critical hit. With a proper 2hander that's 100k damage, instantly, right then and there. And it procs all the damn time. Roughly 4 out of every 6 of your oblis will be crits, guaranteeing insta-gibbed mobs.

    When I was leveling I could easily pull over 7 mobs, infect them all with diseases, and then just work my way up one by one with obliterates, getting my health back with dark succor every time one of them went down.

    So yeah, The reason you're not seeing the fabled DK immortality is because you chose to play the specifically weakest spec they have (In terms of burst and survival, if we talk about total raw sustained damage, Unholy is actually amazing)

    Por que odiar si amar es mas dulce? (*^_^*)

  5. #25
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    Blood spec is pretty strong. But in pvp they feel really week now since the death strike nerf.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Blood spec is pretty strong. But in pvp they feel really week now since the death strike nerf.
    That nerf basically doesn't affect you in PvP unless you're getting massively zerged to begin with. The nerf changed it where you only receive the 7% heal instead of 7% or 20% of the damage you took over the previous 5 seconds. Now, let's say you have 400k life as blood(this is actually lower than you will have in pvp gear, but we'll say you're just starting to PvP with blues and a couple greens). 7% of that is 28k. This is what your DS will heal you for, every time. In order for the old 20% of the damage you took over 5 seconds to be higher than the 7% guaranteed heal, you had to have taken over 140k damage in that 5 second window since you last Death Striked. If you're taking that much damage that fast as blood, you're most likely being zerged(and are dead regardless), or are playing badly. And keep in mind, it gets even less likely to be a nerf the more life you have. If you have say, 500k life, your base DS heal is 35k, and in order for the old 20% thing to be better you have to take over 175k damage in the 5 seconds since you last DSed for the "nerf" to actually affect you.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Blood spec is pretty strong. But in pvp they feel really week now since the death strike nerf.
    That nerf basically doesn't affect you in PvP...
    Exactly. For blood the nerf was negligible. Stormcall already showed the math, but to unclutter the explanation a bit, here goes:

    • PvP-geared blood can haz 500000 health.
    • DS minimum heal is 7%.
    • 7% of 500000 is 35000.
    • 35000 is 20% of 175000.
    • You'd have to take more than 175000 damage in the last five seconds to be healed more than the minimum.


    Here's an example of how insignificant a change this was for blood, in PvP:

    Pre-nerf, 250K damage in the last 5 seconds would make DS heal you for 50000. So, if you'd lose half your health in five seconds (read: about to die spectacularly against 4-5 people), you'd have gotten 50000 health from DS instead of 35000. That wouldn't have saved you either way.
    've is short for have. C/Sh/Would've or c/sh/would have. Not c/sh/would of.

  8. #28
    Eh, geared frost is invincible aswell doing dailies. Doing the shado-pan dailies the first time, pulled one of those elites and two extra packs as I didnt even know that thing was elite. Nuke mob, glyph of dark succor heals for 80k after each kill. Use Death Pact once you go low, and just keep on twoshotting mobs.

    On a sidenote, as mentioned earlier aswell, unholy is just awful for levelling/questing. Too much ramp-up to be effective.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunty View Post
    Eh, geared frost is invincible aswell doing dailies.
    Most of blood's invincibility comes from being completely untouchable by gankers. Frost gets oneshot.

    A non-issue, of course, on carebear realms.
    've is short for have. C/Sh/Would've or c/sh/would have. Not c/sh/would of.

  10. #30
    Frost + death pact + dark succor + chillblains = you can pull at least 5 mobs at a time, even while leveling. If death pact is on cd and you get overrun, kite with howling blast. Nothing can ever catch you unless they are immune (which i have yet to see on normal quest mobs), and if they are casters you are in slightly more trouble, but not more than having either lichborn or amz + ams can normally deal with (your hb does more damage than most npc spells), and you should always kill casters first anyway.

    There are honestly no great con with gooing frost when it comes to both questing and dailies. You have sick burst, the best kiting in the game, and you can heal 20% for each mob you kill (you can even DS critters with the buff while kiting to get that heal).

    I don't think I have ever died while questing in mop and this is while beeing bold and pulling several mobs at the same time.

  11. #31
    Leveled as frost, and even though I tried blood at times it's just not worth it. Always pull as many mobs as you can hit, gather them up and just start kiting in a circle. Glyph of DnD isnt bad for this. Howling blast hits for quite significant numbers, and because most mobs hit fairly weak blood aoe, without much vengeance, will be far inferior to you just kiting stuff and keeping diseases on mobs. Once a few mobs are a bit low just start tanking the damage using dark succor to keep yourself alive.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    Most of blood's invincibility comes from being completely untouchable by gankers. Frost gets oneshot.

    A non-issue, of course, on carebear realms.
    Next patch, when death strike no longer gets heals from hitting players, blood dks will be very much touchable by gankers.

  13. #33
    I leveled as Frost due to the burst you could do, hence killing mobs quickly before moving on to the next. Never had any problems unless I pulled 6+ mobs in Dread Wastes with sub ilvl 430 gear.
    WoW PvP; Where DPS are healers, tanks are DPS, and healers are tanks!

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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Gaga View Post
    Next patch, when death strike no longer gets heals from hitting players, blood dks will be very much touchable by gankers.
    The DS nerf is pretty much irrelevant for blood.

    DS will still heal 7% of max health as it does now. In order for it to heal more than that with the "incoming damage" modifier (20% of damage taken in the last 5 seconds), for a 500K health blood for example, you'd have to take 175K damage to get DS to heal more than the 7% (35000).

    So, yeah. The nerf makes no difference.
    've is short for have. C/Sh/Would've or c/sh/would have. Not c/sh/would of.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    The DS nerf is pretty much irrelevant for blood.

    DS will still heal 7% of max health as it does now. In order for it to heal more than that with the "incoming damage" modifier (20% of damage taken in the last 5 seconds), for a 500K health blood for example, you'd have to take 175K damage to get DS to heal more than the 7% (35000).

    So, yeah. The nerf makes no difference.
    So what you're saying is that Blizzard nerfed blood for pvp by...doing nothing.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Gaga View Post
    So what you're saying is that Blizzard nerfed blood for pvp by...doing nothing.
    Kiting's still a viable option to kill them...
    OT: Stance dancing when I'm doing my dallies as Frost helps me pretty well if I bite off a bit more then I can chew.

  17. #37
    Stood in the Fire Vaelyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    my main is a warlock. my main alt is a DK.

    I levelled my main up as demo. I could pull 10 or so mobs at a time and easily AoE them down.

    than I levelled a monk up. he was a tank, so it doesn't count.

    now I'm levelling my DK, and he's so damn squishy! if I get 3 or more mobs I start struggling for my life! he's unholy and I don't want to respec (specially not to blood)

    since everybody always says DKs are so tough and they can grab 20 mobs together and kill them all, I assume I'm doing something very wrong.

    so where's the death knight invincibility? how can I (as an unholy DK) start killing at least 5 mobs at a time? (that's a good killing rate. since MoP quests ask you to kill so many mobs it's a bit awkward to kill one at a time)
    Blood can AoE DPS like a champ, but if you want to go frost or unholy for questing, this is required.

    All classes are this way. Healers can heal but hit like a wet noodle. DPS can hit like a truck but are like glass cannons and need to be careful. Tanks are invincible but take longer to down single-target mobs, but can keep up with DPS if they stick to AoE-only situations.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Gaga View Post
    So what you're saying is that Blizzard nerfed blood for pvp by...doing nothing.
    The DS nerf wasn't aimed at blood. Blood DK's don't exist in high end arenas or rated battlegrounds, and when's the last time Blizzard did anything based on random battlegrounds and world PvP?

    So no, I'm not saying Blizzard nerfed blood. They didn't. They nerfed DS, and that nerf affects blood the least.

    Or am I missing something and DS is now a blood-only ability?
    've is short for have. C/Sh/Would've or c/sh/would have. Not c/sh/would of.

  19. #39
    Or... just glyph Dark Succor.

    As long as you can burst things down quickly... which is what Frost is all about, the 20% instant heal from the free death strike maxes you out more often then not, and Death Pact can save you from scary things.

    Only thing I do as Blood anymore is solo raids, not leveling, not dailies.
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  20. #40
    Stay Frost with Dark Succor, Unholy really needs too much ramp-up time to be a GOOD levelling spec. When you overpull, go Blood Presence because most mobs only do physicall damage and 55% more armor is a godsend against them.

    I did everything with blood levelling / dailies etc. But when I tried out doing it as frost, as I was under the impression it would be squishy, I was actually surviving more mobs than I did with Blood.

    Especially when I was grinding meat at the Cloud Serpents daily area, I could pull 10 Tigers and just nuke them down in Frost presence DW'ing and DS'ing after every kill or two. It's damn fun.

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