Let's talk about Grimoire of Service

[Netherspark]

I think the point of this thread has completely escaped people. This is not about demonology warlocks, this is about ALL warlocks. The point of this was to talk about a talent that is simply not attractive or effective for many people and whether it could/should be improved to make it a more viable choice for all specs, rather than just one.

How many people who are NOT demonology use or will ever use Service?

annihilare and im one of top pve demo locks

Are we supposed to know who that is? Why should we even care who you are, lol? And what makes you think you speak for every person who plays a warlock?

[wholol]

annihilare and im one of top pve demo locks

I think there are too many comments flying around , some arguing about pve and others about pvp.

for the record, a lot of people here seem to be discussing it's usage in pvp a lot more than it's pve usage.

just to clear things up.

How many people who are NOT demonology use or will ever use Service?

I'd say close to none outside demo spec, affliction maybe , destruction is the least likely candidate imo.

I honestly do not know what they should do to the talent, It would work better if they tell us what each talent is meant to fulfill and that would provide a much better push towards trying to make it work more effectively, alas the same applies to all the other talents that are not used a lot in our other tiers.

[Xeraxis]

I think the point of this thread has completely escaped people. This is not about demonology warlocks, this is about ALL warlocks. The point of this was to talk about a talent that is simply not attractive or effective for many people and whether it could/should be improved to make it a more viable choice for all specs, rather than just one.

How many people who are NOT demonology use or will ever use Service?




Are we supposed to know who that is? Why should we even care who you are, lol? And what makes you think you speak for every person who plays a warlock?

It's apparently this person, Annihilare. Though I didn't know there were rankings in LFR.

[IIamaKing]

.... lmfao idk about other demo locks but it is a 12k dps lost to use supremacy over service xD for my warlock

How are you getting 12k dps out of a 20 sec duration spell with a CD of 2 min?

[Hellfury]

my highest burst on single target is 400k... with service both me and the other top demo locks use service, so who are these locks you say that use supremacy ?

Do u have any logs of proof?

Right... not even simcraft has a 400k peak

Why dont u post ur logs of the 400k peak and the 12k diference between the talents.

If you really were a top PVE demo lock u would know that Supremacy its close or even beats it with the 4set bonus 1:20sec Demon Soul

[Jessicka]

How many people who are NOT demonology use or will ever use Service?

From a PvE perspective:
Havoc + Sacrifice render all pets redundant for Destruction.
Take a look at the sims, you'll see Sacrifice a long way ahead for Affliction; in my experience this transfers into the game very easily, so again pets just aren't viable.

From a PvP perspective the only way you're going to get through all the CCs and healing is to dump out as much damage as you can in as short a window as possible. This again means Sacrifice for all specs (although it seems slightly less so for Demo for utility) since it buffs burst so heavily.

So yeah, basically my biggest worry about the implementation of the Sacrifice talent becoming the default has come to fruition. The only Warlocks you see with pets these days are Demo, and they're railroaded into the Wrathguard or Felguard. I've not seen an Imp, Succubus or Felhunter, other than my own since MoP.

[Seasz]

I'm a demo lock with Supremacy and I always use shivarra as I used my succy before MoP (Wrathguard sucks) :P

And btw Voidlord is an excelent tank.

[Netherspark]

From a PvE perspective:
Havoc + Sacrifice render all pets redundant for Destruction.
Take a look at the sims, you'll see Sacrifice a long way ahead for Affliction; in my experience this transfers into the game very easily, so again pets just aren't viable.

From a PvP perspective the only way you're going to get through all the CCs and healing is to dump out as much damage as you can in as short a window as possible. This again means Sacrifice for all specs (although it seems slightly less so for Demo for utility) since it buffs burst so heavily.

So yeah, basically my biggest worry about the implementation of the Sacrifice talent becoming the default has come to fruition. The only Warlocks you see with pets these days are Demo, and they're railroaded into the Wrathguard or Felguard. I've not seen an Imp, Succubus or Felhunter, other than my own since MoP.

Supremacy is still very viable for all 3 specs though, and is heavily used by Affliction, Destruction and Demonology locks. Service however is not.

I think you've fallen into the same mode of thinking as other people here: that everyone follows the same thoughts and opinions as you do. Not everyone insists on "simming" and trying to be "optimal". The vast majority of people aren't min/maxers. Again, I am not talking about specific groups of people (hardcore raiders or demonology locks) in this thread, I am talking about all warlocks in general.

The main point I have been trying to make is that by a combination of cosmetic appearences, weaker performance and whatever other reasons Grimoire of Service is by far the least used talent and trying to find out how people think it should be changed to improve it's standing across the board.

[Jessicka]

Supremacy is still very viable for all 3 specs though, and is heavily used by Affliction, Destruction and Demonology locks. Service however is not.

I think you've fallen into the same mode of thinking as other people here: that everyone follows the same thoughts and opinions as you do. Not everyone insists on "simming" and trying to be "optimal". The vast majority of people aren't min/maxers.

No, I'm just answering your question:

How many people who are NOT demonology use or will ever use Service?

The answer is not many. Supremacy has it's uses for all three specs on heavy movement single target encounters; I don't and wont dispute that. For multi-target encounters though for Destruction, Havoc renders pets irrelevent when you can get more cleave damage by taking Sacrifice. And, experience has shown me the sims aren't wrong in suggesting Sac is a long, long way ahead of using a pet for Affliction. That's just how it is.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for Service to be useful to the other two specs, but it simply doesn't offer enough to be worth taking - especially when the service minions are so prone to dying when you can get the same sort of burst benefit without the pitfalls from Sacrifice.

Imho, Sacrifice should never have been reintroduced; it's causing problems in PvP with it's burst, and it largely detracts more from the class than it offers; and frankly sucked up way too much development time to attempt to balance it considering all else when you look at everything else that changes to accomodate it. Too many people QQed about Alysrazor though.

[nightrianna]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...393#Annihilare
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/b...084#Annihilare

I am using service in both of these