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  1. #1

    Riven's early game

    Exactly how strong is Rivens early game? I'm talking around level 4 with boots.
    Last edited by Pandragon; 2012-11-25 at 10:26 PM.
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  2. #2
    I am Murloc! Xanjori's Avatar
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    You've done it wrong, you should have two Dorans blade from your level 2 first blood!

    Riven is pretty strong dueler at the very early levels, especially 2 and 4, her kit is very well rounded and helps her trade.
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  3. #3
    No sorry. Boots, not Doran's blade.
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  4. #4
    Moderator Isrozzis's Avatar
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    You really really want to fight people at level 2. I'm not going to say only if you get your level 2 first, but if you do, you go balls to walls on them and try to inflict some serious damage on them. If you can take a jungle camp that won't affect your jungler do it always. You'll be down a potion but you should be able to take complete lane control with the level advantage.

    But to answer your question, she is fairly strong early game mainly because she has a knock up and a stun along with a shield. I'm not a riven expert so i'm not going to tell you what to try to fight against, but i've found her to be fairly strong. I know she does poorly against irelia olaf and I think jayce and darius.

  5. #5
    I ask cause this last game my friend and I played, the Riven seemed to be stronger then she should be. She jumped on him under the turret and killed him(He is playing Xin), I get up there she has around 60% health. Jumps on me, I have tank masteries, cloth armor, and safe guard up. I get tempest/cripple off and she 2 shots me from full health. We were both level 4. Watching the Riven through the game, barely used her shield, had only ninja tabis for defense, but hardly took damage from anyone.
    Last edited by Pandragon; 2012-11-25 at 11:58 PM.
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  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk Kurdiern's Avatar
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    Very strong early. Her passive and mobility let her trade extremely well. Since she scales with bonus AD, not Total AD though, she falls off mid-game if she doesn't get the snowball rollin'.

    You should have checked her stats, it's possible she decided to run full AD page. Full AD can be very strong on champs like Darius and Riven, they get that early kill on people who don't expect it and due to the nature of the Hero they snowball.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurdiern View Post
    Very strong early. Her passive and mobility let her trade extremely well. Since she scales with bonus AD, not Total AD though, she falls off mid-game if she doesn't get the snowball rollin'.

    You should have checked her stats, it's possible she decided to run full AD page. Full AD can be very strong on champs like Darius and Riven, they get that early kill on people who don't expect it and due to the nature of the Hero they snowball.
    Checked his run pages. He only had 3, his ad pages was AD Marks, AD Quints, Armor Seals, and MR Glyphs. It confused the hell out of me cause I play Riven too, and I have never 2 shotted a tanky champion with a Dorans blade, let alone the boots he was equipped with.
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    Pandaren Monk Kurdiern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Checked his run pages. He only had 3, his ad pages was AD Marks, AD Quints, Armor Seals, and MR Glyphs. It confused the hell out of me cause I play Riven too, and I have never 2 shotted a tanky champion with a Dorans blade, let alone the boots he was equipped with.
    No one has ever 2-shotted a full health Lee before. I think you're exaggerating incredibly, but she does have a strong early game. More likely she outplayed you hard, you fucked up, or both. A 60% Riven shouldn't 2 shot a Lee, especially if he's already gotten the Cripple on her.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurdiern View Post
    No one has ever 2-shotted a full health Lee before. I think you're exaggerating incredibly, but she does have a strong early game. More likely she outplayed you hard, you fucked up, or both. A 60% Riven shouldn't 2 shot a Lee, especially if he's already gotten the Cripple on her.
    I'm serious. There was no chance to screw up, 2 hits and I was dead. I was even under a turret. She got away with about 50% hp, with 2 turret hits.
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  10. #10
    Moderator Isrozzis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    I'm serious. There was no chance to screw up, 2 hits and I was dead. I was even under a turret. She got away with about 50% hp, with 2 turret hits.
    I don't like to do this, but i'm going to say you are very wrong here. Two turret hits at level 4 is going to do waaaaaay more than 10% of someone's health, even with her shield.

    A turret at base stats will have 152 ad, and a riven at level 4 will have around 40 or so armor depending on runes and masteries and starting items. Riven will also have roughly 750 health with a possibility of close to 800 or so with masteries included. So if she takes two turret hits she's going to take roughly 300 damage. If she for some reason ranked up shield twice it would block 90 damage. Though if she is two shotting you then she probably had points in Q.

    So we'll just assume that she has two points in the shield. So the turret would do 210 damage or so. (I'm not counting her armor since turrets do more damage each time they hit you. So I'm assuming that the second shot is pretty much going to get rid of the armor. Also at level 4 it will have more than base stats, so I'm not actually sure how much AD it would have. Would be more likely around 160-165.)

    Now if she has 800ish health, and takes 210 damage, that's 25% of her health. If she had a pot rolling then she would regen 20 health plus her base health regen while the turret was shooting her. So even then she's taking a lot more than 10% of her health, and she's going to take minion damage too.

    To me the most likely case is that she froze the lane in front of your turret, then destroyed your wave as fast as she could and ran a wave and a halfish or so into your turret. And when you tried to fight her, all of the minions turned on you. So you take a whole ton of damage from minions. You were also probably ignited, so if you used a health pot it didn't really do much. Riven does a lot of damage early game but not enough to two shot you. She might have played all of her cards right and baited you into a situation where you would effectively kill yourself, but she didn't two shot you. Minion damage is a lot higher than most people give it credit for. Though that might not have happened, and you might just be remembering it wrong.

    I would really love to look at a LoL replay file to see what happened.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Isrozzis View Post
    I don't like to do this, but i'm going to say you are very wrong here. Two turret hits at level 4 is going to do waaaaaay more than 10% of someone's health, even with her shield.

    A turret at base stats will have 152 ad, and a riven at level 4 will have around 40 or so armor depending on runes and masteries and starting items. Riven will also have roughly 750 health with a possibility of close to 800 or so with masteries included. So if she takes two turret hits she's going to take roughly 300 damage. If she for some reason ranked up shield twice it would block 90 damage. Though if she is two shotting you then she probably had points in Q.

    So we'll just assume that she has two points in the shield. So the turret would do 210 damage or so. (I'm not counting her armor since turrets do more damage each time they hit you. So I'm assuming that the second shot is pretty much going to get rid of the armor. Also at level 4 it will have more than base stats, so I'm not actually sure how much AD it would have. Would be more likely around 160-165.)

    Now if she has 800ish health, and takes 210 damage, that's 25% of her health. If she had a pot rolling then she would regen 20 health plus her base health regen while the turret was shooting her. So even then she's taking a lot more than 10% of her health, and she's going to take minion damage too.

    To me the most likely case is that she froze the lane in front of your turret, then destroyed your wave as fast as she could and ran a wave and a halfish or so into your turret. And when you tried to fight her, all of the minions turned on you. So you take a whole ton of damage from minions. You were also probably ignited, so if you used a health pot it didn't really do much. Riven does a lot of damage early game but not enough to two shot you. She might have played all of her cards right and baited you into a situation where you would effectively kill yourself, but she didn't two shot you. Minion damage is a lot higher than most people give it credit for. Though that might not have happened, and you might just be remembering it wrong.

    I would really love to look at a LoL replay file to see what happened.
    I am not some simple half minded person. The turret was firing on her minions, she just downed the wave that was there. I forced her back a couple times while her minions beat on the turret. I backed up as my new wave was heading in, they were just passing the mid top turret. Suddenly she charged me. Did 2 of her Q's, neither hit me. I activated safe guard as she landed her third, down went 1/4 of my life, then her next attack killed me. The turret turned, got 2 hits and she disappeared into the area under top lane, came back up when the turret focused on minions, and she was only around half health.
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  12. #12
    Moderator Isrozzis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    I am not some simple half minded person. The turret was firing on her minions, she just downed the wave that was there. I forced her back a couple times while her minions beat on the turret. I backed up as my new wave was heading in, they were just passing the mid top turret. Suddenly she charged me. Did 2 of her Q's, neither hit me. I activated safe guard as she landed her third, down went 1/4 of my life, then her next attack killed me. The turret turned, got 2 hits and she disappeared into the area under top lane, came back up when the turret focused on minions, and she was only around half health.
    so what you're telling me is that she missed two parts of broken wings, then the third hit did 3/4 of your health, with your shield up.

  13. #13
    Riven is strong early game, but there was clearly some other factor in play if she "2 shot" you from 3/4 hp. Were you level 2, and she 4? It's impossible to tell without actually seeing a replay, as your 'recount' is very biased.

    Riven is in no way overpowered though, but her early game trades can be very strong against the right people. Your Xin friend must have fucked up terribly to die to her and leave her on 60% if she turret dove him that early in the game. As others have said, something else is at play here, that you didn't notice.

    It happens to us all, I remember playing a game as Vlad top and a Lee Sin getting FB early on me. It looked like he just utterly 2-3 shot me, but there was more at play than that.
    Last edited by Hateful; 2012-11-26 at 09:36 AM.
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  14. #14
    I am a pretty decent Riven player, one of my main tops, but I got completely stomped by a Xin yesterday. He outsustained my poke and could trade even or even win trades due to his armor penetration BS. Didn't help that he killed my jungler level 3 and got double buff + FB of the game. Was no winning from thereon.

  15. #15
    So she didn't use ignite?
    What if she had heal and healed while not visible?
    This could explain the HP left but not the dmg done to you.

  16. #16
    Then it turns out they had a nidalee jungle and spear droped him to 1 health and ignite ticked him over for the riven kill.

  17. #17
    Well, he doesn't seem to be so "half-minded" I guess he watched the dead recap.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bennyrosso View Post
    Well, he doesn't seem to be so "half-minded" I guess he watched the dead recap.
    he obviously didn't or else he wouldn't say that ONE single q + auto killed him....

  19. #19
    Found out what happened. My friend was frapsing the game, he showed it to me this morning. Riven's stun took down 1 minion, 1 freaking minion, and that minion leveled her to 6. She ulted me.
    I'm the minister of mistakes. I'm the shaman of sh*tstorms. If there was a f**k-up pope. I'd have a 3 foot hat!

  20. #20
    Moderator Isrozzis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Found out what happened. My friend was frapsing the game, he showed it to me this morning. Riven's stun took down 1 minion, 1 freaking minion, and that minion leveled her to 6. She ulted me.
    That makes more sense. Though, she had a 2 level advantage on you, and her ult up. If she hit you with her full combo and then ulted I could see it taking you low, and possibly killing you since you were two levels down on her.

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