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  1. #81
    Omg, there are other people that know what Everquest Next is? Shoot, I thought me and my dad were the only ones to have ever heard of it, LOL.

    Looking forward to all of those games too, Fencer.

  2. #82
    Like any MMO, people get fast. F2P is the only reason GW2 is going to survive.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
    Like any MMO, people get fast. F2P is the only reason GW2 is going to survive.
    Then again, there's also people that go slowly or not so fast. These are still enjoying immensely every nook and cranny the game offers and plans to offer in the future.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by JajaBongs View Post
    Problem is, once you create characters on a server they are blocked, even if you dont play anymore. Even for that case you dont know if the game is doing well, but really

    this forum is great to see how the game is doing. Just look at the members watching the forums...at peak 100, at beginning there were 2k - 3k
    That....... doesn't make any sense.

    Sure, once you made your first toon on a server you can't make them in any other, but the thing goes like this:

    (For the record, I dunno how many total servers are in GW2, so I'll just use example numbers here)

    Lets assume there's a total of 40 servers, if the game is doing well, they'll all have a moderate population, you can log in at peak hours and see some of them full, some of them medium, and a few others low, but even on the low ones, there's still a lot of people inside. If the game is doing poorly, all the servers are barren, you'd have a hard time finding another human being anywhere, including capitals and other concentration hubs, and eventually they'd have to merge servers in order for you to actually see other players.

    Merging servers is almost always seen as the most desperate measure, only taken when everything else has failed. As long as GW2 doesn't do this, it means it has a healthy population. Maybe not a record-breaking one, but enough players to keep the game strong for years to come.

    As for your other point regarding forums........ no, that's inadmisible evidence. After all, if you swing by the official forums of wow, the game is apparently dead, and has been dead for over 8 years, with every player quitting, or threatening to quit, and more people pissed off, rather than happy. Ditto for the official forums for Aion, LOTRO, Rift, and just about every MMO you can shake a stick at.

    Official forums are nothing more than vent pits. Where frustrated people go to vent their rage. Its the main reason I hardly go to the official wow forum anymore, and why I rarely visit official forums of other online games like LoL, and Lineage II, ect.

    Por que odiar si amar es mas dulce? (*^_^*)

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I don't think monthly costs matter. If a game is compelling to play, I'll play it, and justify the cost if such a thing exists. If a game isn't entertaining me, a sub fee won't factor into whether I stay or not.

    Personally I played the game to 80, and felt like I'd seen all I cared to. It's nice to know that at any point I can just download and continue without too much of a problem. If there were more pvp maps and gametypes, I'd likely still be playing. The PvE side of the fence just didn't keep my attention, nor did I find any joy in starting an alt... actually I found it pretty dreadful to do any zone twice (to be fair, I find that to be true in most if not all MMO's).
    Generally I'd say yes but that applies to one game/month I would never have multiple subs at the same time cause I would find it hard to put in the time to make it worth it.
    When in doubt, mumble...

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrno View Post
    Your friends not playing the game anymore has NOTHING to do with the paymend method.

    There is absolutely no link there.

    1) If people like it, they will play it F2P/B2P/P2P it really doesn't matter
    2) If people hate it, they won't play it F2P/B2P/P2P it really doesn't matter

    tl;dr: your friends didn't like it
    I think his point was, would there be even less people playing if it was a subscription game

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    For some reason, I don't mind things like WoW's Sparkle Pony, but A.Net having holiday and patch events where "Buy keys!!!" is shoved at you kinda drives me nuts.
    Where is this shoved at you? what keys? why are they telling you and not me I still like the game where is my attention? I'm offended.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 09:30 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    It's the depth of Guild Wars 1 that is missing. GW2 is like sorta mindless & unrelenting, It's just the same fight-fight-fight mechanics without any real strategic or cerebral consideration.

    The game is just kind of a action-game romp and little more. I heard this quote about Skyrim on a podcast once but I think it fits GW2 as well; width of an ocean/depth of a puddle.

    Kinda accurate.
    What kinda depth are you talking about in GW1 then? (I never played it)
    When in doubt, mumble...

  8. #88
    To throw in my two cents, Guild Wars 2 is a great game but it is just lacking in any real hook or grip that seems to keep people playing. Out of the group of friends that I started the game with, which totaled around 20 or so, I am the only one who seems to log on still. Though I am still levelling slowly and can't comment on the endgame first hand, I can't put the lack of interest down to people reaching 80 and then getting burnt out. There are those who left their characters to languish at 35, 45, 60 and at 80.

    One thing that does strike me about GW2 is how repetitive the gameplay is and this opinion isn't helped by how abysmal the monthly events are. The quote about having the depth of a puddle is incredibly accurate though I do prefer the game over GW1 which I didn't find all too engaging at all.

    For now, I am waiting eagerly for the Western release of Phantasy Star Online 2.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 08:42 AM ----------


    Quote Originally Posted by Derah View Post
    As for your other point regarding forums........ no, that's inadmisible evidence. After all, if you swing by the official forums of wow, the game is apparently dead, and has been dead for over 8 years, with every player quitting, or threatening to quit, and more people pissed off, rather than happy. Ditto for the official forums for Aion, LOTRO, Rift, and just about every MMO you can shake a stick at.

    Official forums are nothing more than vent pits.
    You misunderstand their point. They are not talking about what people are posting but rather the number of people within the forums and the degree of posting. This is a measure of interest in the game (albeit a rather biased and poor one given the nature of this site) and should have a rather fair correlation with activity in the game. If people are being engaged by GW2 and are enjoying playing it, then they will be more inclined to discuss it, to look up tactics or ask for build advice or to share screen shots of their characters. This can be reflect (likely with a good number of coefficients) to the number of people in the Guild Wars 2 forum.

    For what it is worth, SW:ToR was incredibly busy prior to and during launch but decreased in activity as subscription numbers dropped.
    Last edited by Aimee Antimony; 2012-11-23 at 08:43 AM.

  9. #89
    As it was expected, the sad excuse for a real trial has failed to attract any new customers. Not that that was very surprising, as their terms were borderline insulting.

  10. #90
    even if the game is as awful as people are making it out to be, without any free trial available via there main website I simply wont buy Guldwars 2

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncano View Post
    So it seems to me that F2P doesn't really help it... I had so many active friends, they're not even coming back for 1 hour anymore... I guess it would be even worse if GW2 had subscription. What do you think?

    This is based purely on my own observations, I'm not trying to push em down your throat.
    For me, it went like this:
    I played my heart out in GW2 leveling 2 toons to 80 and gearing them up. I had blast while doing that, but after 2 months playing just that and nothing else, I got slightly bored. So I bought MoP, leveled a toon and am now playing that.
    I will definitely come back to play GW2 in a couple of weeks unless they proceed with the power creep they introduced. The lack of any re-entry fee as well as ever-relevant gear is what makes the game a great on-and-off thing. I can play a while, and when I'm bored, I go play something else without having regrets about my sub money getting wasted. In the long term the game will last me a lot longer than a sub based MMO.
    For example I also have a Rift account with max level character (unless they raised the cap) and semi decent gear. I'd love to go back to the game and play it a bit, but their f2p model won't allow me to play my max level toon and I don't want to sub the game to play maybe a week or so, so I probably won't ever play that toon again.
    As for WoW, I will probably keep playing that for a while because I managed to reunite with an old lost friend.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncano View Post
    So it seems to me that F2P doesn't really help it... I had so many active friends, they're not even coming back for 1 hour anymore... I guess it would be even worse if GW2 had subscription. What do you think?

    This is based purely on my own observations, I'm not trying to push em down your throat.
    Dude, 15$/month is not something that makes people not play an MMO. Unless you live in Somalia, 15$ is nothing. The fact that GW2 is f2p does nothing to bring in players if the game's quality doesn't meet current standards.

    If GW2 had a sub, I'm fairly confident it would have had approximately the same amount of players.

  13. #93
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Jim View Post
    Dude, 15$/month is not something that makes people not play an MMO. Unless you live in Somalia, 15$ is nothing. The fact that GW2 is f2p does nothing to bring in players if the game's quality doesn't meet current standards.

    If GW2 had a sub, I'm fairly confident it would have had approximately the same amount of players.
    I wouldn't be so sure. Yes, $15 (or £9 here in the UK) is a pittance for me, too. But it's worth remembering that the plural of anecdote is not data and that you and your friends (or I and mine, for that matter) are not representative of the population as a whole. Per Scott Hartsman, Trion Worlds CCO:

    One of the things that shocked me when we first launched Rift and were doing our own research was the number of people who admitted they were previous Sub-based gamers only, who, in 2011 would now simply refuse to play any game that required a subscription.

    Obviously there were plenty who were okay with sub still existing, but the swing in the general sentiment was definitely there, and very pronounced.

    We took that as our challenge to make damn sure we were going to be able to go above and beyond in terms of what people were actually getting for that sub, which we express through our updates and what they contain.

    When we drilled down, the resistance to a sub in 2011 was in no small part because of the overall state of the economy. The number of people who simply would reply with: "Look, I'd love to play - This is exactly my kind of game, but I just plain can't afford the $15 a month I used to on entertainment. It sucks, but I can't."

    That's what led to us doing Rift Lite, and thoughts of how we might do more with that program in the future. I hate that we live in a world where $15 on entertainment has entered the realm of "unaffordable luxury" to a far larger number of people than it rightly should.

  14. #94
    I agree that the F2P-concept doesn't influence one's opinion about the game a whole lot.

    The main problem that keeps players sceptical towards GW2 is the same problem that occurs with every new MMO: A huge majority of the consumers are extremely biased. They played and enjoyed WoW and/or other MMOs prior to these new ones and expect them to be similar or even better.

    A new game must adapt known gameplay elements and add fresh ones in order to have a realistic chance on the market. Now the thing is that people are flaming every developer that their game is a rip-off of WoW or whatever. Stuff like "Your game has an inventory? Oh my god, that's stolen from (insert random RPG here)!" or "You use spells and skills to defeat your enemies? WoW copy!" sound ridiculous but can be found as top comments on nearly every trailer or gameplay-video of upcoming MMOs.

    If game mechanics, HUD-settings and other elements work like a charm in current games, then let the developers use them in future games!

    I have talked to numerous people (in WoW) about their opinion on Guild Wars 2 and many of them didn't even try it and say that it is bad. Come on people, don't judge a game by watching a video!
    The guys that did play it simply said something along the line of "It's like WoW only worse." or "I leveled each of the classes to 5 and got bored and came back to WoW.".
    You need to invest a couple of hours into an MMO in order to see whether or not it is for you - In fact, I myself didn't think that GW2 was super awesome the first time I logged in!

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    If talking about today & this weekend specifically, note there is a kinda of a big deal holiday going on right now in the US and like a huge shopping weekend Fri-Mon. A lot of the MMOs I play seem sparse right now. Holidays and all.

    More generally speaking, in PVE zones I have yet to see a game as lively or densely populated as Guild Wars 2 regardless of time of day. Some times I log in at 2 or 4 in the morning and still hit overflow servers.

    Only the Charr and 50-70 Norn areas see little traffic. The rest of the game is in my observation, full of people. Maybe too many. Tough to even see or get a hit in on a mob in some areas.

    Don't PVP ever. No comment on WvW.

    Lastly, it is worth considering that some other games have launched and re-launched lately. And the MMO player base isn't that big really. Mists of Pandaria, SWTOR's F2P, Rift Storm Legion, Planetside 2, Raiderz; all new/released and competing for a tiny sliver of gamers. With a B2P game like GW2 you are going to likely see a lot more 'drift' than in other games.

    Guild Wars 2 is not a "long term" game for many. More of a jump in/out thing.
    No it was a couple days ago, before the holiday.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Treacherous View Post
    even if the game is as awful as people are making it out to be, without any free trial available via there main website I simply wont buy Guldwars 2
    what people say guild wars 2 is aweful? It's not a perfect game, but it's definitely not aweful.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    As it was expected, the sad excuse for a real trial has failed to attract any new customers. Not that that was very surprising, as their terms were borderline insulting.
    Why? what was so bad about it? I never really knew what are the limitations of that trial.

    If you are refering to how it was just during one weekend, they all start that way. SWTOR initially did the exact same thing, 1 weekend where you could try the game if a friend invited you. Then they loosened up a little bit, 7 days of trial any time a friend invited you (rather than specific weekends). And then unlimited trial with a cap at lvl 15, without the need of a friend inviting you.

    I imagine arenanet would do the same thing, eventually, anyone would be able to create a trial account with unlimited (or limited) duration that has a very low lvl cap like 15.

    For the time being, the trials (just like in every other MMO) require a friend to invite you. (I'd ask for an invite, but ever since I upgraded to windows 7, I can't run any games till I upgrade my RAM memory)

    Por que odiar si amar es mas dulce? (*^_^*)

  18. #98
    F2P would be fine if it simply replaced the subscription model in an otherwise identical (value-wise) game. It's not like it's some kind of generous act of charity on the publisher's part, they're just changing from one payment model to another. They're still making money or they wouldn't do it. Hell, they're presumably making more money, why else would everyone be breaking into the world of microtransactions? It can be more convenient for the player, but rest assured that the publisher is not giving up their wealth in order to give gifts to their beloved customers. It just luckily happens that the model is better for both parties.

    Or it should be, but it isn't if you skimp heavily on quality. GW2 is a game that suffers overwhelmingly from the taint of low quality. It's a discount product that, while possessing some good features and interesting innovations, is still of rock-bottom quality by high-profile MMORPG standards. If that's the tradeoff for being able to play "for free" then I'd rather pay that frankly insignificant monthly fee. It's not like GW2 is entirely free, anyway.

    See, it's okay to make some sacrifices for the F2P model. Of course you can give up something, probably mostly in the form of the frequency of content patches. It is not a carte-blanche to design a terrible, flimsy, shallow discount product and blame all of its shortcomings on the economic model that they themselves chose. When a game's actual free-mode (the one where you refrain from participating in the microtransaction aspect and simply play without ever paying a dime) is so poor that it really tarnishes the whole experience, the F2P model has failed to serve any purpose beyond chasing away a large chunk of customers. People are often willing to pay extra to enhance a good game, but they're much less likely to pay in order to make a bad game tolerable.

    If the new fact of life with the increasingly widespread F2P model is that games are shit until you buy a bunch of stuff, the whole thing can f*** right off. When it has become a goal for developers to design bad games in order to compel players to self-medicate with their wallets, the entire gaming industry has failed. The goal should always be to make the best game that the studio is capable of making, and if that doesn't seem worthwhile to them, they should go back to the model that worked quite well for a decade and a half.

    I think ANet completely missed the point of the microtransaction model and failed catastrophically at implementing it into GW2. They made a mistake that was quite similar to the one Jay Wilson made with D3: design a game that is frustrating and unsatisfying with the expectation that this compels the player to pay for the privilege of fun, based mainly on their love for the previous game of the series. This was a miserable failure in D3, but Blizzard being Blizzard, they churned out a series of excellent patches over the course of six months and finally made the game decent. ANet do not have that kind of production power or development experience.

    Instead of cutting corners, developers need to take a lesson from Riot: produce a game of top quality and the players will be happy to spend more money. If a completely new studio is able to massively succeed with a game of a (at the time) pretty niche genre, and a totally free game at that, it has to be possible for an established studio to continue an already succesful franchise in one of the core genres of the video game industry without making a product that resembles a foreign knock-off copy of a brand product. If League of Legends was able to become probably the most popular online game in history despite no guaranteed revenue, one should have been able to expect much more of GW2 with its hefty box price and pre-existing fanbase to guarantee a gigantic profit even if everybody bought it and immediately threw it in the trash. ANet skimped on quality and it didn't take long before the child shouted that the emperor is actually naked.
    Last edited by Noselacri; 2012-11-24 at 12:26 PM.

  19. #99
    The leveling was great, arguably one of the best MMO experiences iv had. That's balanced with probably the worst end game iv ever seen....not logged the game for months now and don't have any intention of doing anytime soon. I guess if it was a monthly sub game id be pissed but since it's free I like the feeling of knowing I can come and go when I please.

  20. #100

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